The one and only Kent Hovind and related thread

[Famspear]

So...because the order to hand over the property said "You are guilty and we get your property" instead of an order "You are guilty and we demand you hand over your property" - Hovind gets the contempt charge dropped?

If that is the case, I stand amazed on two counts:
(1) First, even if there isn't an "operative command," why wouldn't it be assumed that he had to hand over property? The only other option is to take it by force, which costs the government money, and why should the government do that when Hovind is the one found guilty?
(2) How could the judge realize the need for an "operative command" and yet completely forget to include a few words making it a command in the ruling?

OK, I'll play devil's advocate -- in this case, I'll advocate the position that the judge's ruling was correct.

The issue is not whether Hovind refused to "hand over" the property. He lost the property as a result of the forfeiture order.

What Hovind did was to willfully interfere with the forfeiture order -- by filing papers with a court (frivolous papers, at that).

But, Hovind cannot be guilty of disobeying a court order IF there was nothing in the court order that prohibited him from doing what he did.

The problem is: What specific statute did Hovind violate?

Obstruction of court orders is a federal offense, but let's look at the statute:

Whoever, by threats or force, willfully prevents, obstructs, impedes, or interferes with, or willfully attempts to prevent, obstruct, impede, or interfere with, the due exercise of rights or the performance of duties under any order, judgment, or decree of a court of the United States, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than one year, or both. [ . . . ]

--from 18 USC section 1509.

The problem is, apparently, that Hovind simply filed some documents. It's unlikely that merely filing documents -- even with the intent to interfere with a court order -- would constitute "threats" or "force." Even if the effect of the conduct was to interfere successfully with the court order, that would not be a crime unless there is a statute that makes it a crime.

The fact that his behavior was morally wrong (which in my opinion it was) does not mean that he committed a crime.

[grixit]

But Jesus will forgive him.

[Dr. Caligari]

The fact that his behavior was morally wrong (which in my opinion it was) does not mean that he committed a crime.

I agree, and I'll go farther: the fact that his behavior violated some criminal statute doesn't mean he should be convicted under a different criminal statute that he didn't violate.

Criminal contempt requires a deliberate violation of an explicit court order. An order forfeiting property authorizes the Government to seize it, but doesn't explicitly order the owner not to interfere. The court later entered another order which did explicitly enjoin certain Hovind-related entities from interfering with the forfeiture, but that order didn't name Hovind personally. (That was bad drafting by the Government lawyers or the court, but still doesn't make Hovind guilty of criminal contempt. In fact, the jury acquitted Hovind of violating that order.)

I think there may be other criminal statutes that Hovind could be prosecuted under, but he hasn't been charged with them (at least not yet-- the Government dropped the pending charges without prejudice; I think they're looking for a bullet-proof set of charges).

[darling]

Kent Hovind is out of jail and home.

Apparently the jury was 11-1 in favor of conviction in the mistrial, so I wonder if the government will end up re-filling charges or just let things drop.

[Famspear]

Meanwhile, at the prosecution's request, the sentencing for Paul John Hansen has been postponed. No new date has yet been set. The prosecution asked for the delay to allow the probation office to do some research and update its pre-sentencing report.

Meanwhile, Hansen continues to file useless nonsense with the Court, including the usual nonsense about the Court not having "jurisdiction."

[notorial dissent]

I think useless pretty generally describes Hansen when it comes right down to it.

[Jeffrey]

Hey, who is Brian Donovan? Is he involved with the case?

[Jeffrey]

Karl Lentz seems to be getting involved with the Hovind case?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rybhpsHa8B0

[NYGman]

Karl Lentz seems to be getting involved with the Hovind case?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rybhpsHa8B0

That will end well

[notorial dissent]

How could he not, he is the ascendant sovcit nonsense guru of the moment, and this terrible miscarriage of justice sounds ripe for some of his profound legal pronouncements.

A match made in, well ........

In other words, uh oh for Kent.

[Famspear]

The Pensacola News Journal reports that on Friday, August 21, Paul John Hansen was sentenced to 18 months, with credit for 10 months already served.

See:

http://www.pnj.com/story/news/crime/201 ... /32155699/

[Jeffrey]

Sentencing guidelines called for Hansen to receive in the neighborhood of four to five years incarceration, but Rodgers said 18 months was appropriate given the nature of the offense, while still promoting “respect for the law.”

“There is little that is more threatening to the fabric of society than someone taking action to thwart or ignore the law,” the judge told Hansen. “...You’re not special. You’re subject to the same laws as everyone else in this courtroom...that’s all this case is about, pure and simple.”

[Jeffrey]

Are we allowed to continue talking about Hovind now that he's out of jail?

Turns out Hovind is now selling magic cancer cures to pay the bills:

http://creationtoday.org/product/b17-package-2/

[Pottapaug1938]

Hovind is pushing laetrile! Are there no depths to which this so-called "man of God" will not sink?

[notorial dissent]

I will assume that is a rhetorical question???? But Magic 8 Ball say "NO".

[grixit]

Part of the problem with laetril was that it is extracted from apricot seeds, which also contain cyanide. In the 70's when laetril first became a fad, some manufacturers were less than scrupulous about purification. Hopefully, this time around, the extraction is more accurate. Unfortunately, he's also selling the seeds and some people might be tempted to do their own extraction.

[wserra]

Part of the problem with laetril was that it is extracted from apricot seeds, which also contain cyanide.

The rest of the problem, of course, is that it doesn't work. Even without the cyanide.

[notorial dissent]

In the 70's when laetril first became a fad, some manufacturers were less than scrupulous about purification. Hopefully, this time around, the extraction is more accurate.

Why would you expect that, or that he would be any more scrupulous than he has ever shown himself to be? The only person he has ever shown any concern for is himself.

[GlimDropper]

The interesting thing to me is that it isn't Kent so much as his son Eric who is selling this stuff. Eric had taken up Kent's young earth creationism ministry while his father was in jail but he seemed to be doing it "on the straight an narrow." Unlike Kent he has a registered 501c3, pays the taxes that he owes and even incurred the wrath of some hard core Hovindites buy editing out the de tax, sovcit and some other sundry conspiracy wank from Kent's recorded lectures. It seems like there are some of Kent's footsteps that Eric will not follow in.

But isn't selling that crap illegal? This video suggests that it is.

[notorial dissent]

Jr is at least marginally smart enough not to want to follow in his father's footsteps to prison, now whether or not he can carry the lessons on over in to the rest of his life remains to be seen.