The Patriot Threat

[LPC]

Curiously, and unfortunately, that document contains a form of memorandum from the embassy to the Department of State that specifies the applicant's name is to be given in all caps. Clearly, the State Department is only interested in letting the strawman escape the bonds of citizenship.

But it's only the strawman that was a citizen to begin with. The natural, free-born, living, breathing, person was never a "citizen."

Requiring that the name be all in caps actually confirms that the federal government only has power over someone whose name is all in caps.

[wserra]

the federal government only has power over someone whose name is all in caps.

You mean like the Giants?


Or the Flyers?


Or maybe Gauguin?

[Famspear]

I sorta think that someone who might wander into this web site -- and who would happen to hit this thread first -- might be really, really confused.......

[grixit]

Most of these people are not patriots in any conventional sense - they repudiate their American citizenship, they want to overthrow US laws, they refuse to live by the statutes adopted by consent of the governed, etc.

[Un]fortunately, one cannot lose one's American citizenship merely by saying so. One must take specific action at an American Embassy in a foreign country. I don't think there's an American Embassy in Frickenstein, or even Freedonia.

There are probably thousands of draft-dodgers who went to Canada and became Canadian citizens, but are still US citizens (and subject to US income tax).

Not just draft dodgers - there are approximately 750,000+ persons living in Canada who hold US citizenship, many of them simply ignored the fact that because, although born in Canada, since their parents were US citizens, they are as well, and subject to the whims of the IRS. It wasn't a big issue until last year when FATCA compliance reporting by Canadian banks went into effect. Apparantly there has been a bit of a rush on repudiation of US citizenship by some people living in Canada, simply because they don't want the hassles of filing US tax returns for the last 5 years, even though they probably don't owe anything.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/taxes/i ... -1.1179163
As an aside, the closest city to me is Calgary, in the 2011 census, 11% of the population had US citizenship which means roughly 110,000 people.

The West Wing had an episode in which one of the staffers, who was born in a town in north Montana, was informed that there had been some kind of error in the geography and her home was actually in Canada, I forget what kind of finagling they pulled but for a while it looked as if she'd have to be fired because her job required US citizenship.

[LPC]

the federal government only has power over someone whose name is all in caps.

You mean like the Giants?


Or the Flyers?


Or maybe Gauguin?

Do I actually have to say that I didn't mean bottlecaps?

[NG3]

the federal government only has power over someone whose name is all in caps.

Or maybe Gauguin?

Do I actually have to say that I didn't mean bottlecaps?

So baseball caps?

Still Gauguin

[jcolvin2]

It wasn't a big issue until last year when FATCA compliance reporting by Canadian banks went into effect. Apparantly there has been a bit of a rush on repudiation of US citizenship by some people living in Canada, simply because they don't want the hassles of filing US tax returns for the last 5 years, even though they probably don't owe anything.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/taxes/i ... -1.1179163
As an aside, the closest city to me is Calgary, in the 2011 census, 11% of the population had US citizenship which means roughly 110,000 people.

I thought part of the process for renouncing citizenship was certifying that you had been in compliance with your tax obligations for the last five years. Seems like a Catch-22.

[eric]

It wasn't a big issue until last year when FATCA compliance reporting by Canadian banks went into effect. Apparantly there has been a bit of a rush on repudiation of US citizenship by some people living in Canada, simply because they don't want the hassles of filing US tax returns for the last 5 years, even though they probably don't owe anything.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/taxes/i ... -1.1179163
As an aside, the closest city to me is Calgary, in the 2011 census, 11% of the population had US citizenship which means roughly 110,000 people.

I thought part of the process for renouncing citizenship was certifying that you had been in compliance with your tax obligations for the last five years. Seems like a Catch-22.

Pretty accurate, I probably expressed myself wrong. It's one of those situations in which the worst decision is to do nothing. IMHO the best thing to do is file your returns and find out where you stand, if you don't, your easy border access to pick up a jug of milk in the US ends. If you don't owe anything (most likely case), you just make the decision as to whether or not the easy border crossing mitigates the displeasure of filing a US return every year. If you do owe money (possible if you have a lot socked away in RRSP's or TFSA's), you deal with it accordingly, understanding that the sums owed are uncollectable in Canada so long as you avoid visiting the US. BTW, a fair number of my co-workers cannot enter the US, some of them for reasons which I personally find quite humorous.

[Gregg]

This is why my evil side keeps hoping that a law is passed that will allow the US to cancel a sovrun's citizenship when he or she enters a courtroom and starts making arguments that they are not a "citizen" - with the consequence of them immediately being deported to Somalia via parachute drop from a C-130.

They get a parachute? You're getting soft on us aren't you?

For those of you interested in the precise details, see 7 FAM 1260.

Curiously, and unfortunately, that document contains a form of memorandum from the embassy to the Department of State that specifies the applicant's name is to be given in all caps. Clearly, the State Department is only interested in letting the strawman escape the bonds of citizenship.

Well, at least I now understand e.e.cummings

[grixit]

And Archie.

[The Observer]

They get a parachute? You're getting soft on us aren't you?

No, I just believe that Freemanism has to go through an existential phase before it finally arrives at self-realization.

[wvfoos]

I met a guy one time, who was espousing the "I'm not all caps John Q. Public, it's capital J, Q, and P, but the rest are lower case. When the government sends me something in all caps, I send it back, because that's not me. Heheh, they keep trying to make me pay taxes, but they can't." I'm sure he was lying about the last part.

I said, "Do you have a driver's license" He said, "of course." I said, "let me see it." He pulls it out, and sure enough, JOHN Q. PUBLIC was right there on the license. I said, "why did you sign, and are now using, someone else's driver's license?" He said, " i have to have a driver's license to be able to drive."

I said, "Yeah, but that's not your license. You aren't all caps. You need to get your own, non-all caps, driver's license."

He said, "Driver's licenses don't count."

I just said, "oh, ok," and walked away. I guess I'm just not smart enough to grasp his logic.