Peter of England: He’s still F RE?

[Joinder]

I think that Joinder is mainly motivated by gleeful anticipation of how others may respond to his crass remarks.

I think pretty much everyone has got that. I expect he'd have been banned by now if not for the fact that the mods are well aware he'd just re register with another id and claim the Quatloosers were afeared of him so they booted him.

TBH there's no other way to deal with that kind of disturbed mind except to completely ignore it. The only way to combat a troll is indeed not to feed him, any response or retort is giving him what he wants and needs. So I agree, the foe button removes temptation because you just don't see the mess he's left behind & there's no temptation to try and clean it up.

Thank you for your post and your observation that I have a "disturbed mind"
I haven't of course , my opinions are different to yours, that's all.
Peace

[Joinder]

Yes, I did pre judge the response I might get. Some might call it foresight or anticipation.

Frankly I am surprised that you allow what you anticipate what other people's response might be to dictate your own behaviour.

You are easily surprised my friend, my behaviour is dictated by many things.

[Joinder]

I think pretty much everyone has got that. I expect he'd have been banned by now if not for the fact that the mods are well aware he'd just re register with another id and claim the Quatloosers were afeared of him so they booted him.

TBH there's no other way to deal with that kind of disturbed mind except to completely ignore it. The only way to combat a troll is indeed not to feed him, any response or retort is giving him what he wants and needs. So I agree, the foe button removes temptation because you just don't see the mess he's left behind & there's no temptation to try and clean it up.

We mods are well aware that Joinder is nothing but a troll shilling for Peter. He's not banned because we are reluctant to ban anyone unless their behavior gets too disruptive (why we put Pigpot on moderated status) or they get offensive. We've had those in the past with racist, sexist types. What I plan to do is be proactive with Joinder. Any post where he is obviously baiting to just start a flame war gets deleted without discussion. As you suggest it would help a lot if posters just did not respond to him. Unfortunately I can't use the foe button because I have to moderate him.

It would be better to let debate rage wouldn't it?
Some contributors have been able to express their views in a calm and reasoned manner to my comments. Nothing less than expected of course
The usual culprits have resorted to personal insults, which I note you are happy to allow.
The comment about my family being boiled up and turned into soap being a case in point.
However, I have kept my dignity in the face of this provocation, and of course I will continue to do so.
Thank you for allowing my comments, Peace as always.

[Hercule Parrot]

...here's Peters take on the US arm of WeRe. Trouble in paradise?

[Normal Wisdom]

I think that Joinder is mainly motivated by gleeful anticipation of how others may respond to his crass remarks.

For anyone who missed my previous note, clicking on another poster's name will bring up the option to ignore their comments. We should call it "The Pigpot Button" really, but it works just the same with anyone else...

I am afraid that I have come to the same conclusion. I must admit I have struggled to reconcile his criticism of YiamCross with his approach on YouTube to encourage FoTLers such as Roy even further down the rabbit hole. That said, I don't think he is secretly "shilling" for PoE. I think perhaps he likes to provoke people on all sides simply for his own entertainment.

I don't like using the "ignore" facility but in this case, reluctantly I think it's probably the best way forward.

[vampireLOREN]

Since Peter is stealing from the poor while Maddoff stole from the rich, the argument could be made that Peter is the greater villain.

Peter hasn't "stolen" anything. Court case and references please.

Fraud is theft by deception. Every cent Peter has gotten from his victims is stolen.

Now there lies the interesting point....in my very humble opinion and those among you with superior knowledge might enlighten me? if I am mistaken.
Pete will issue you a cheque book and 'allonges' for £35 and a PN. The £10 pm is to cover the cost of WeRe maintaining your account, strange is may seem no actual fraud there, anyone of you could set up a similar based piece of nonsense, you could offer legal advice issue badges/hoodies/newsletters for an entrance fee and a monthly charge.
Those who write out their first cheque say for £200 to a utility company must contact WeRe who will immediately debit their account, so at this point ( in theory) the debt has been transferred to WeRe who do not accept any deposits of cash/cheques/DD etc. It is my belief that banks looking for transferral of funds are told they can have it in Re when they were expecting ( not unreasonably) £/$.
At no point has PoE ever said his Re can be converted to money, in fact he laboured this point while preaching to the converted .....so much that even if totally confused they still joined in.
I do not believe that PoE has committed any fraud up to this point, he has given the receiving bank his option which they quite rightly refuse. He is entitled to offer a service and charge for it, at no point does he guarantee it will work, there is a point in that he offers to support his customers and there might be a slim chance of redress there.
I am sure the entire financial system are aware of this shoddy little enterprise and if they were able they would have pulled the plug by now.
To me what is really interesting is if you write the same £200 cheque and notify WeRe and accept your account to be debited instead of being in debt for £200 you now owe £400, WeRe would be entitled to seek you to pay this and to maintain your promissory note.
Lewis Carroll could have thought this bank up, I am sure there are Bankers and senior fraud squad officers scratching their heads wondering how to deal with it.
The only thing he sells is an idea, he never states it will work and he really does not appear to be bothered when it fails.
It would be interesting to see an action taken against Pete, if only to find out the charge....but if Pete just disappears I doubt he would be hunted by the authority's ......maybe some irate FmotL chaps?.

[longdog]

At no point has PoE ever said his Re can be converted to money, in fact he laboured this point while preaching to the converted .....so much that even if totally confused they still joined in.


The only thing he sells is an idea, he never states it will work and he really does not appear to be bothered when it fails.

I disagree... I don't think Poe can get off the hook purely by saying that he never said Re could be converted into real money or he never stated it would work. The clear implication from the word go was that the cheques could be used to settle debts, initially 'public' debts but then any old debts. In that sense he very definitely stated that it would work.

I think a court would look at the overall intention behind Poe's 'bank' which was plainly to sell a debt-elimination scam which he knew wouldn't work and couldn't possibly work. A defence of "well I was only selling a made up currency and I did sort of... occasionally... now and again... say they weren't convertible into real money" would be about as effective as calling somebody a paedophile, a crook, a murderer and a goat molester and then putting 'allegedly' at the end.

Once he starts selling his 'YALTA' notes (if he ever does) he's not even going to have the wriggle room he has now. If he sells notes which are not legal tender with the clear claim on each and every note / cheque that they are legal tender he's given the authorities quite enough rope to hang him by.

In any event I think the authorities could, if they were sufficiently motivated, make a very good case against him for producing and selling items to be used in fraud. He wouldn't even need to have the whole massive WeReBank infrastructure behind the 'movement' to be guilty of that. Printing and selling fake chequebooks is in itself illegal if they are marketed as anything other than novelty 'cheques' which nobody in their right mind would attempt to use and would never pass even the most casual scrutiny from a bank.

[Burnaby49]

I am afraid that I have come to the same conclusion. I must admit I have struggled to reconcile his criticism of YiamCross with his approach on YouTube to encourage FoTLers such as Roy even further down the rabbit hole. That said, I don't think he is secretly "shilling" for PoE. I think perhaps he likes to provoke people on all sides simply for his own entertainment.

Doesn't matter to me as a moderator. Either way gets his posts deleted.

[Hyrion]

The only thing he sells is an idea, he never states it will work and he really does not appear to be bothered when it fails.

Ok - if that's your perspective:

• How do his youtube videos saying the cheques work and the banks are keeping that money and demanding to be paid again fit into the picture?

[rumpelstilzchen]

The only thing he sells is an idea, he never states it will work and he really does not appear to be bothered when it fails.

Ok - if that's your perspective:

• How do his youtube videos saying the cheques work and the banks are keeping that money and demanding to be paid again fit into the picture?

I agree. Peter has produced videos where he holds up letters from the banks and states the letters are proof that the cheques are clearing.

[exiledscouser]

At no point has PoE ever said his Re can be converted to money, in fact he laboured this point while preaching to the converted .....so much that even if totally confused they still joined in.


The only thing he sells is an idea, he never states it will work and he really does not appear to be bothered when it fails.

I disagree... I don't think Poe can get off the hook purely by saying that he never said Re could be converted into real money or he never stated it would work. The clear implication from the word go was that the cheques could be used to settle debts, initially 'public' debts but then any old debts. In that sense he very definitely stated that it would work.

I think a court would look at the overall intention behind Poe's 'bank' which was plainly to sell a debt-elimination scam which he knew wouldn't work and couldn't possibly work. A defence of "well I was only selling a made up currency and I did sort of... occasionally... now and again... say they weren't convertible into real money" would be about as effective as calling somebody a paedophile, a crook, a murderer and a goat molester and then putting 'allegedly' at the end.

In many towns and cities in the UK you can find hydroponic shops that will sell you lights, trays, fans, filters, why, everything you'd need to set up a cannabis grow. The shop near to me helpfully has a large cannabis leaf as its logo leaving potential punters and indeed the public at large with no doubt whatsoever what it is they are promoting and the activity underlying their business. Do TPTB shut them down?

Similarly there is, near to me a hardware shop at the bottom end of town selling a whole selection of hookah pipes, bongs and even small crack pipes, next to the Bob Marley tee shirts and the cannabis grinders, all completely unmolested by plod. I doubt whether any of these products will see a wad of Old Holborn.

So perhaps, applying the same view, Peter is supplying the means, in the issue of his WeRe cheques by which fraud could be (and is being) facilitated just short of openly advocating their criminal use, avoiding culpability for himself.

Whatever else might be or might not be happening, we can all agree that some of his customers, in using these cheques have suffered loss of credit ratings, loss of banking and credit card facilities, even been made homeless and generally aggravated (for no appreciable gain) their own precarious financial circumstances. It is the poor, desperate, greedy, naive and vulnerable who are signing up for and attempting to use WeRe Bank cheques, not Captains of Industry, those in comfortable financial circumstances or with a 'bit of common'. We are seeing it played out across social media and in various publicly-accessible sites and even on their closed forums. Peter rarely enters into dialogue with or offers support to those who find themselves in the mire as a consequence of using his scheme or scam, call it what you will, save for the few occasions when he mocks them for their own incompetence. I find these outcomes depressing and sad.

I guess if some want to stand at the margins cheering Peter on as he rakes in the cash from his marks then they are perfectly entitled to do so but I for one would have to seriously question their moral compass.

[vampireLOREN]

The only thing he sells is an idea, he never states it will work and he really does not appear to be bothered when it fails.

Ok - if that's your perspective:

• How do his youtube videos saying the cheques work and the banks are keeping that money and demanding to be paid again fit into the picture?

One has to presume that like me you have watched his videos? and he appears to be surprised at any success! , for if you cast your mind back to the birth of this fine financial institution.....everything he spouted was based on what to do when the cheque was sent back to its issuer with its tail between its legs. I just have an opinion that to hope for the finger of justice pointing at PoE ...may be in vain.
English is not my natural language so it could be I have failed to make my thoughts plain, anyway you have a lovely evening.

[vampireLOREN]

The only thing he sells is an idea, he never states it will work and he really does not appear to be bothered when it fails.

Ok - if that's your perspective:

• How do his youtube videos saying the cheques work and the banks are keeping that money and demanding to be paid again fit into the picture?

I agree. Peter has produced videos where he holds up letters from the banks and states the letters are proof that the cheques are clearing.

Am I to imagine you might have expected otherwise?, Maybe holding up a sheath of demands? This man had lots of chequebooks and allonge's printed !! he doesn't want them cluttering up his camper .

[longdog]

In many towns and cities in the UK you can find hydroponic shops that will sell you lights, trays, fans, filters, why, everything you'd need to set up a cannabis grow. The shop near to me helpfully has a large cannabis leaf as its logo leaving potential punters and indeed the public at large with no doubt whatsoever what it is they are promoting and the activity underlying their business. Do TPTB shut them down?

Similarly there is, near to me a hardware shop at the bottom end of town selling a whole selection of hookah pipes, bongs and even small crack pipes, next to the Bob Marley tee shirts and the cannabis grinders, all completely unmolested by plod. I doubt whether any of these products will see a wad of Old Holborn.

Hmmmm... The difference is I suppose that all of those items do have, at least nominally, a legal use, and as far as I am aware selling items that can be used for illegal drug production and consumption (even if the seller knows full well that's what they will be used for) is not specifically a criminal offence whereas producing, selling or even possessing item for use in fraud is an offence. I'm only busking here but I suspect the courts would find there are three types of cheques and bank notes... Real ones, fake ones and novelty ones. The first and the last are legal but the middle one is illegal to produce, sell, use or possess.

So perhaps, applying the same view, Peter is supplying the means, in the issue of his WeRe cheques by which fraud could be (and is being) facilitated just short of openly advocating their criminal use, avoiding culpability for himself.

I would say he has openly advocated their criminal use and has done so repeatedly. He has claimed they could settle debts (wasn't it him who said "Don't fight it... Pay it"?) even going so far as to include his 'allongues' to say nothing of his old waffle of "If they refuse the cheque tell them to take me to court". What is that if not a clear statement that bogus cheques can actually be used?

Whatever else might be or might not be happening, we can all agree that some of his customers, in using these cheques have suffered loss of credit ratings, loss of banking and credit card facilities, even been made homeless and generally aggravated (for no appreciable gain) their own precarious financial circumstances. It is the poor, desperate, greedy, naive and vulnerable who are signing up for and attempting to use WeRe Bank cheques, not Captains of Industry, those in comfortable financial circumstances or with a 'bit of common'. We are seeing it played out across social media and in various publicly-accessible sites and even on their closed forums. Peter rarely enters into dialogue with or offers support to those who find themselves in the mire as a consequence of using his scheme or scam, call it what you will, save for the few occasions when he mocks them for their own incompetence. I find these outcomes depressing and sad.

I guess if some want to stand at the margins cheering Peter on as he rakes in the cash from his marks then they are perfectly entitled to do so but I for one would have to seriously question their moral compass.

Agreed.

[Hyrion]

The only thing he sells is an idea, he never states it will work and he really does not appear to be bothered when it fails.

Ok - if that's your perspective:

• How do his youtube videos saying the cheques work and the banks are keeping that money and demanding to be paid again fit into the picture?

One has to presume that like me you have watched his videos? and he appears to be surprised at any success!

I have watched some - and he's never come across as "surprised at success". From my perspective, he's come across very clearly as insisting his product/service does indeed work and that any claims by any institution (bank or otherwise) is fraudulent. I would easily expect any reasonable Jury to conclude the same if reviewing the same evidence.

Do I hold the view PoE is involved in Fraud? Yup! Is there sufficient evidence to prove that in a Court Of Law? I dunno.

I just have an opinion that to hope for the finger of justice pointing at PoE ...may be in vain.
English is not my natural language so it could be I have failed to make my thoughts plain, anyway you have a lovely evening.

Personally I think both PoE and his clients (most of them) are both involved in Fraud.

Should they all be caught, convicted and sentenced? I'd like to think every criminal in every criminal act should be.

However - realistically the authorities have limited resources and there's always more work then then resources can cover so priorities have to be set. Where PoE falls on that list - he's probably near the bottom if on it at this time.

As for his customers - it's probably easier and quicker to go the civil route and repossess property then it is to get the criminal ball rolling. That would be another big factor involved: properly gathering the evidence and building a criminal case. This is a time consuming process.

[Forsyth]

Hmmmm... The difference is I suppose that all of those items do have, at least nominally, a legal use, and as far as I am aware selling items that can be used for illegal drug production and consumption (even if the seller knows full well that's what they will be used for) is not specifically a criminal offence

Actually, in the UK the supply (but not simple possession) of drug paraphernalia such as bongs can be illegal, with the knowledge of the likely use forming a part of the offence: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1971/38/section/9A.

Prosecutions are rare but they can happen, though I am not aware of any that have been successful as proving the seller knew the intended use is problematic: http://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/n ... -1-7151499.

[Wake Up! Productions]

http://imgur.com/yZ42uG0

Can't figure out how to directly load an image onto here, but here's Peters take on the US arm of WeRe. Trouble in paradise?

BBCode:

[Losleones]

Ok - if that's your perspective:

How do his youtube videos saying claiming the cheques work and the banks are keeping demanding that money and demanding to be paid fit into the picture?

Fixed it for you.

[Joinder]

At last, a mature debate on Peter and his activities.
Is he still fREe ?.....yes, and likely to stay that way for many of the reasons stated upthread.
Peace.

[Losleones]

You're off again regurgitating PissPots posts & making it quite clear you're content that he's stealing suckers cash (which he undoubtedly won't declare) & in some cases making them homeless & definitely all cases deeper in debt, yet you appear quite smitten by his scam