Rocco Galati

Moderator: Burnaby49

User avatar
wserra
Quatloosian Federal Witness
Quatloosian Federal Witness
Posts: 7624
Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2003 6:39 pm

Re: Rocco Galati

Post by wserra »

I've stayed out of this, because I can't pretend to be an expert in Canadian law. However, one point not yet made is basic enough that I am fairly sure it's Canadian law as well as US.

It's perfectly true that reasonable reliance by the "victim" is an element of a civil fraud. "Reasonable" implies an objective standard: could the proverbial reasonable man have relied on the defendant's (presumably false) representations had he been in plaintiff's position? It is thus a defense to a civil action for fraud that the defendant's representations were so outlandish that a reasonable person would not have relied on them. Irwin Schiff actually tried this.

This reasonable reliance, however, is not an element of criminal fraud. The following is taken from a NY case - where I practice - but I believe it generally the law.
The elements of grand larceny in the third degree by false pretenses (Penal Law §§ 155.35, 155.05[2][a]), as charged in the first count of the indictment, are (1) intent to deprive an owner of property, (2) the making of a false representation, (3) knowledge of the falsity, (4) obtaining the property of another, and (5) that the owner was induced by the representation to give up the property
Norman v. Hynes, 20 A.D.3d 125, 132, 799 N.Y.S.2d 222, 226-27 (2nd Dept. 2005). Note the simple "induced", not "reasonably induced". The Schiff position is therefore not a defense to someone charged with criminal fraud.

So why haven't certain people been prosecuted? As a former prosecutor, there is no way to answer that without being a member of the particular prosecutor's office. Maybe s/he isn't on their radar, since no one has complained. Maybe murders and robberies are higher priorities. Who knows? But absence of prosecution is certainly not evidence of innocence.

I believe that this is likely an accurate summary of Canadian law. Anyone who knows better, please say so.
"A wise man proportions belief to the evidence."
- David Hume
notorial dissent
A Balthazar of Quatloosian Truth
Posts: 13806
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 7:17 pm

Re: Rocco Galati

Post by notorial dissent »

As in most, if in fact not all, prosecutorial offices it is the level of funding and annoyance that guarantees attention. In most cases these penny ante con artists don't get the attention (prosecution) they deserve simply because the funds aren't there to prosecute. A similar condition existed in my state about bad checks, until the legislature changed the law and mandated that any time a complaint was made the local DA's were required to act and prosecute, no options, where before they just got ignored. It also helped that they put some real teeth in the bad check laws, but it still boiled down to the DA's having no alternative. They weren't happy needless to say, and NO ONE cared. I can't imagine it is any different in Canada than it is here.
The fact that you sincerely and wholeheartedly believe that the “Law of Gravity” is unconstitutional and a violation of your sovereign rights, does not absolve you of adherence to it.
Bill Lumbergh
Pirate Captain
Pirate Captain
Posts: 225
Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2014 5:06 pm
Location: Initech Head Office

Re: Rocco Galati

Post by Bill Lumbergh »

Criminal fraud seems to be the same in Canuckistan. Here's a little summary of the law from Park 2010 ABCA 248 : http://canlii.ca/t/2c48f
[9] In R. v. Théroux, 1993 CanLII 134 (SCC), [1993] 2 S.C.R. 5 at p. 20, McLachlin J. (as she then was) summarized the elements of the offence of fraud as follows:
“... [T]he actus reus of the offence of fraud will be established by proof of:
1. the prohibited act, be it an act of deceit, a falsehood or some other fraudulent means; and
2. deprivation caused by the prohibited act, which may consist in actual loss or the placing of the victim’s pecuniary interests at risk.

Correspondingly, the mens rea of fraud is established by proof of:
1. subjective knowledge of the prohibited act; and
2. subjective knowledge that the prohibited act could have as a consequence, the deprivation of another ...”

[10] As Epstein J. pointed out in R. v. Drakes, [2006] O.J. No. 129 at para. 44:

“Where the fraud alleged is by deceit or falsehood, the trier of fact need not consider whether the reasonable person would find it dishonest. From Theroux, supra, it is clear that ‘all that need be determined is whether the accused, as a matter of fact, represented that a situation was of a certain character, when, in reality, it was not’.”
k1w1
Scalawag
Scalawag
Posts: 73
Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2015 10:58 pm

Re: Rocco Galati

Post by k1w1 »

wserra wrote:I've stayed out of this, because I can't pretend to be an expert in Canadian law.
Of course you can pretend to be an expert in Canadian law -- everyone is allowed to pretend that. You're probably not allowed to practice law in Canada though, eh -- you and Bobby both.

But seriously, thank you for posting, and thanks Bill for that confirmation.

I know you lot think I'm trolling, but it's actually an honest question: Why haven't these so-called gurus been prosecuted for fraud? Awkward for you, perhaps, but honest from me.

I don't think anyone could say these guys are "off the radar"; they've been operating very publicly for years and years; their so-called dupes (OPCA litigants) have been out there for years causing one sort of mischief after another. There's Meads v Meads... I find it hard to believe there's a lack of desire to prosecute them if they're committing fraud these past many, many years.

Now, when I consider what sort of person is an OPCA litigant -- and I do believe I know the sort of person they are, have spent enough time around them to get a handle on them -- I don't know if it could be said anyone has induced them to go out and play with matches. They were recusant before they ever came across an OPCA guru, before they'd ever heard of FMOL or whatever. In the case of Sydel, the prosecutor showed she had a desire to evade taxes before she ever came across her OPCA guru.

Sydel tried to claim she was the dupe of an OPCA guru. It was found that she wasn't. Maybe that's the reason no prosecutors office has tried prosecuting an OPCA guru for fraud -- because it's already been found these OPCA litigants aren't dupes of any kind.

In Meads v Meads Rooke clearly states that no court has ever found these OPCA litigants to have been acting in good faith, and I've not seen anything either here or anywhere else that convinces me it's otherwise.
LordEd
Admiral of the Quatloosian Seas
Admiral of the Quatloosian Seas
Posts: 908
Joined: Mon Jul 22, 2013 3:14 pm

Re: Rocco Galati

Post by LordEd »

k1w1 wrote:Why haven't these so-called gurus been prosecuted for fraud?
http://www.chilliwacktimes.com/news/255218371.html
Porisky, a father of four, was found guilty of income tax evasion, failing to collect goods and services taxes and counselling to commit fraud. He received a four-and-a-half-year jail term.
Does that work for you? Yes, it says counselling to commit fraud rather than fraud, but I think that is a more accurate description and could apply to other gurus if they ever got up to Porisky scale.
bmxninja357
Admiral of the Quatloosian Seas
Admiral of the Quatloosian Seas
Posts: 1108
Joined: Wed May 07, 2014 6:46 am

Re: Rocco Galati

Post by bmxninja357 »

Porisky is much different than most as he is pretty much tax specific. and i believe his methods were different than say, clifford.

and if you want to get to prison quick go straight to pissing off the tax man. and show others they need not pay taxes because they have magic papers....

not really the same as youtube university laws dont apply shtick.

peace,
ninj
whoever said laughter is the best medicine never had gonorrhea....
k1w1
Scalawag
Scalawag
Posts: 73
Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2015 10:58 pm

Re: Rocco Galati

Post by k1w1 »

Porisky was convicted for counselling as the principal of a commercial entity, The Paradigm Group, because he was acting like an qualified accountant might. At least, people getting information from that could get the wrong impression about who was giving it. By starting The Paradigm Group Porisky took it to another level; that's how he differed from the likes of Menard or Clifford, or even himself before starting Paradigm.

Porisky was Sydel's guru before he started The Paradigm Group. She tried to claim she had been counselled by Porisky. It was found she hadn't.

There have been some people convicted of tax evasion from after Paradigm Group, but I'll note they didn't try to claim they'd been counselled like Sydel did (or perhaps Sydel's lawyer did for her since apparently she'd come to her senses by then). Instead they continued on with their sovereign stupidity, representing themselves at court and claiming they weren't persons, etc, etc, etc...
arayder
Banned (Permanently)
Banned (Permanently)
Posts: 2117
Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2014 3:17 pm

Re: Rocco Galati

Post by arayder »

Since several of "gurus" we have talked about are listed in Meads as "OPCA litigants" it seems our resident troll has defeated his own argument that freemen gurus are just expressing their opinions.

Let's see our confused friend's quote again:
k1w1 wrote:In Meads v Meads Rooke clearly states that no court has ever found these OPCA litigants to have been acting in good faith, and I've not seen anything either here or anywhere else that convinces me it's otherwise.
Duh? Our bewildered troll just told us the court said freeman gurus are acting in bad faith when they litigate using the same advice they sell to the gullible!

It gets worse.
k1w1 wrote:Porisky was convicted for counselling as the principal of a commercial entity, The Paradigm Group, because he was acting like an qualified accountant might.
Our perplexed poster needs to get his arguments straight. Sometimes he claims gurus are just talking out loud and don't claim to be experts. He even references their phony disclaimers. Then he forgets which story he is telling and says they "[act] like. . .qualified" professionals.
LordEd
Admiral of the Quatloosian Seas
Admiral of the Quatloosian Seas
Posts: 908
Joined: Mon Jul 22, 2013 3:14 pm

Re: Rocco Galati

Post by LordEd »

Menard was acting enough like aa professional peace officer that he is facing personation charges.
arayder
Banned (Permanently)
Banned (Permanently)
Posts: 2117
Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2014 3:17 pm

Re: Rocco Galati

Post by arayder »

k1w1 wrote: Menard and Clifford (as examples of OPCA gurus) do not profess or even pretend to be qualified lawyers or accountants.

LordEd wrote:Menard was acting enough like a professional peace officer that he is facing personation charges.
I recall Menard offering legal support as a benefit with each World Freeman Society membership.
Members will eventually enjoy all the following:
. . . Support – A 1 800 number with recording and witness and legal support available 24/7
http://www.fourwinds10.net/siterun_data ... 1234287865
Famspear
Knight Templar of the Sacred Tax
Posts: 7668
Joined: Sat May 19, 2007 12:59 pm
Location: Texas

Re: Rocco Galati

Post by Famspear »

k1w1 wrote:I know you lot think I'm trolling, but it's actually an honest question: Why haven't these so-called gurus been prosecuted for fraud?
Perhaps for the same sorts of reasons that, in the United States, many people who are known by the U.S. Internal Revenue Service to have committed U.S. federal tax crimes, including blatant tax fraud, are not even recommended for prosecution, much less actually prosecuted. The reasons are many, and varied, in the case of U.S. tax criminals, and I suspect the same is true in the cases of the gurus to which you refer.
"My greatest fear is that the audience will beat me to the punch line." -- David Mamet
notorial dissent
A Balthazar of Quatloosian Truth
Posts: 13806
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 7:17 pm

Re: Rocco Galati

Post by notorial dissent »

k1w1 wrote:I know you lot think I'm trolling, but it's actually an honest question: Why haven't these so-called gurus been prosecuted for fraud?
It's called lack of prosecutorial resources, and prosecutorial discretion. Basically they don't have the time, and/or money to deal with all the nutcases who come out of the woodwork, but it doesn't make them any less guilty of being frauds and committing frauds. If they do something stupid enough, as Menard has, then they'll get their deserved day in court, otherwise probably not.
The fact that you sincerely and wholeheartedly believe that the “Law of Gravity” is unconstitutional and a violation of your sovereign rights, does not absolve you of adherence to it.
User avatar
The Observer
Further Moderator
Posts: 7559
Joined: Thu Feb 06, 2003 11:48 pm
Location: Virgin Islands Gunsmith

Re: Rocco Galati

Post by The Observer »

It took a long time before the government went after Irwin Schiff. So long, in fact, that Irwin started citing the lack of prosecution as evidence that the government agreed that what he was selling to his victims was legally correct. But Irwin overplayed his hand by doing so, and got the government's attention.
"I could be dead wrong on this" - Irwin Schiff

"Do you realize I may even be delusional with respect to my income tax beliefs? " - Irwin Schiff
k1w1
Scalawag
Scalawag
Posts: 73
Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2015 10:58 pm

Re: Rocco Galati

Post by k1w1 »

If Menard didn’t practice the shtick he preaches, do you think he would warrant or deserve a day in court for preaching it? (And by the way, that's always been the thrust of the question.) Or are you saying not only is it probably going to be illegal to actually do it, but it’s definitely criminal fraud to even talk about it? I would find that hard to believe. But if that’s what you’re suggesting then I guess there’s no reason to doubt you…

Surely you are not suggesting that it’s criminal fraud for, say, Thompson to tell people he won in court after the judge “abandoned ship”, because it might induce, for instance, me -- just a common member of the public (a non-Quatloosian, you might say) -- might induce me to try and do the same thing at court? I find that very hard to believe, but if that’s what you say then…

But do you really say it’s criminal fraud for someone like Clifford to hold a public seminar (and video it and post it publicly on Youtube) because it might induce me (a common member of the unwashed public; you know, a non-Quatloosian with everything that implies) might induce me to go out and try some of the legal stuff he talks about without first consulting a lawyer or my accountant? I find this extremely hard to believe, but if that’s your opinion then…

Is that your opinion though?
LordEd
Admiral of the Quatloosian Seas
Admiral of the Quatloosian Seas
Posts: 908
Joined: Mon Jul 22, 2013 3:14 pm

Re: Rocco Galati

Post by LordEd »

I think I'm going to yield on this one. I believe that some of Menard and Clifford's content should be considered fraud, but I don't have good support either way.

I don't agree with your argument that only being commercial about it was the main reason, other than i believe its a symtom of the difference in scale, not level of expectation.l, which lines with some of the other counter arguments.

I get your argument though.
arayder
Banned (Permanently)
Banned (Permanently)
Posts: 2117
Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2014 3:17 pm

Re: Rocco Galati

Post by arayder »

LordEd wrote:I think I'm going to yield on this one. I believe that some of Menard and Clifford's content should be considered fraud, but I don't have good support either way.

I don't agree with your argument that only being commercial about it was the main reason, other than i believe its a symtom of the difference in scale, not level of expectation.l, which lines with some of the other counter arguments.

I get your argument though.
It's not really about the specifics of the argument, LordEd. k1w1 has been making excuses for freemen gurus and white washing the harm they have caused for years.

Any argument will work for him.
Burnaby49
Quatloosian Ambassador to the CaliCanadians
Quatloosian Ambassador to the CaliCanadians
Posts: 8246
Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2011 2:45 am
Location: The Evergreen Playground

Re: Rocco Galati

Post by Burnaby49 »

Time to get back on track regarding the COMER lawsuit after our little squabble with K1W1. When we left it I had posted this direction from the trial judge
2015-11-17 Ottawa
Written directions received from the Court:

The Honourable Mr. Justice Russell dated 17-NOV-2015 directing that TO ALL COUNSEL: "I am working on conmpleting my judgment in this matter. Since our hearing, I note that the Federal Court of Appeal hass issued its decision in Mancuso v. Canada (National Health and Welfare), 2015 FCA 227 (Mancuso) which contains some general guidance on the availability of declaratory relief at paras 30-36. It seems to me that I am obliged to take this judgment into account and need your advice on its implications for the present motion. I would appreciate it if both sides could provide me with written submissions on the implications of Mancuso within the next short while. I suggest that the Defendants provide their submissions within 10 days of this Direction and that the Plaintiffs provide theirs within 10 days of receipt of the Defendants' submissions. The Defendants should then let me have any reply within 3 days of receipt of the Plaintiffs' submissions. If this doesn't work for either side, let me have your alternative suggestions" placed on file on 17-NOV-2015 Confirmed in writing to the party(ies)
Not good news for COMER since Mancuso was on the same issue of declaring legislation invalid and the plaintiffs lost without even getting a hearing;
[2] The Federal Court, per Justice James Russell (the judge) granted the defendants’ motion to strike. The appellants appeal the order striking the statement of claim. Should the Court find that the judge did not strike the claim in its entirety, the respondents have filed a cross-appeal, contending that it was an error not to do so.

[3] For the reasons that follow, I would dismiss the appeal and cross-appeal.
Since then just busywork, submissions flying back and forth, replies to the court, nothing regarding a decision. The last entry in the court records is this;
46 - 015-12-07 Toronto
Affidavit of service of DEBORAH TELESFORD sworn on 07-DEC-2015 on behalf of Respondent confirming service of DOC 45 upon PLAINTIFFS by telecopier on 07-DEC-2015 filed on 07-DEC-2015
Just the Crown serving some documents on the plaintiffs. However I expect a decision should be released soon since the court hasn't required anything for the past month.

However there seems to be some pessimism over at the World Freeman Society. Verynewtothis has just posted a very florid urgent plea for more money to help the desperate plaintiffs continue their quest for justice. Appeals to the Supreme Court of Canada? They haven't even gotten past the first level of Federal court yet. In fact they haven't even gotten into Federal Court yet. The current issue is just trying to get the Federal court to hear their case and it's not looking good even for that. When they eventually lose at Federal Court then they can go to the supremes and get their leave for appeal denied there.
- = There is no way – whatever it may take – that we can give up on this case! The one response that is constant – whether at meetings, in emails or phone calls, and in often deeply moving messages that accompany donations – is a heartfelt, “Thank you for what you are doing!`

Most COMERites have already donated generously to the cause. Bill Krehm continues to support the suit to the limit of his ability. We are doing everything we can to solicit help from new sources. Now, whether we are subjected to an other motion to strike or given the leave we seek to the Supreme Court of Canada, we’ll need to raise a significant amount of money. Anything you can do to help will be sincerely appreciated.

Every cent so far donated has been recorded and accounted for and, as far as possible, personally acknowledged.

Donations can be made electronically through http://www.gofundme.com/COMER or by cheque made out to COMER. Please specify “Lawsuit” on the memo line.

Cheques should be sent to:

COMER, c/o Ann Emmett
83 Oakwood Avenue
Toronto, Ontario M6H 2V9

= (Out of 44 cases at the supreme court level the government has won 1!)
Ann Emmett
Encouraging messages and donations in support of our lawsuit continue to flow from across Canada, and from other countries recognizing and appreciating its international importance.

Like these:
Alan Nicol

Please keep up the good work, so many people do not understand how Canada is being financially abused by 'private' banks. More media publicity would certainly help
Ryan Roediger

Keep up the fight against this tyranny!!!
Patrick Phillips

Please keep up this very worthy struggle.
Pete Willis

If you can imagine our government not having to pay interest to use our own money for the good of the nation then donate to this cause.
http://worldfreemansociety.ca/forum/vnt ... 190#140854

I'd suggest you check the original post for a look at verynewtothis's writing style.
"Yes Burnaby49, I do in fact believe all process servers are peace officers. I've good reason to believe so." Robert Menard in his May 28, 2015 video "Process Servers".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeI-J2PhdGs
Burnaby49
Quatloosian Ambassador to the CaliCanadians
Quatloosian Ambassador to the CaliCanadians
Posts: 8246
Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2011 2:45 am
Location: The Evergreen Playground

Re: Rocco Galati

Post by Burnaby49 »

Poor Rocco don't get no respect. Or legal fees for that matter. You'll all remember Rocco's saga of how he stopped a Federal Court of Appeal judge from being appointed to the Supreme Court of Canada. After his historic victory all he wanted was just compensation for saving Canada from the anarchy of being allowed to appoint Supreme Court judges willy-nilly without consulting him first. And it was denied by the Federal Court;
[5] Mr. Galati, a barrister and solicitor, but acting on his own behalf, has provided a Statement of Account showing 56.4 hours of services at an hourly rate of $800 and disbursements of $638.00, for a total bill of costs, including tax of $51,706.54.

[6] The Constitutional Rights Centre Inc. has provided a Statement of Account for work done by Paul Slansky, a barrister and solicitor, showing 14.55 hours of services at an hourly rate of $800, for a total bill of cost, including tax of $16,769.20.

[7] The respondents submit that these bills of costs are excessive and unwarranted given that the application was stayed at such an early stage. I agree. As one example, Mr. Galati’s claim for 7.6 hours to “review, research, Attorney General’s motion for stay” in light of the Reference is excessive and unwarranted.

[8] The respondents filed a cross-motion for an order dismissing the application. In response to the request for costs, the respondents submit that as there has been no judgment and no successful party, there should be no costs awarded. In the alternative, they submit that there is no constitutional right to costs in Canada and, “having regard to the factors set out in Rule 400(3), the purposes of costs would be well-served by a single award of costs, assessed according to Column III.”

[9] The applicants have provided no authority for the proposition that “where a private citizen brings a constitutional challenge to legislation and/or executive action, going to the ‘architecture of the Constitution’, from which he/she derives no personal benefit, per se, and is successful on the constitutional challenge, that he/she is entitled to solicitor-client costs of those proceedings, as to deny those costs constitutes a breach of the constitutional right to a fair and independent judiciary.”

[10] The respondents point to a decision of the Tax Court of Canada in Lee v Canada (Minister of National Revenue – MNR), [1991] TCJ No 243, wherein it was stated that:
There is no constitutional right to an award of costs. Moreover, there is no specific Charter Right that is infringed by the failure of a Court to award costs. Any attempt to impose such a requirement through jurisprudence would amount to an excess of jurisdiction. The role of this Court is confined to the determination of constitutional challenges to existing legislation.

[11] Although not binding on me, I agree with the observations of the Tax Court Judge. Moreover, there is no justification in these circumstances to an award of solicitor-client costs. Indeed, the Supreme Court of Canada in a decision cited by the applicants, Mackin v New Brunswick, 2002 SCC 13 (CanLII), [2002] 1 SCR 405, a case that did involve judicial independence, reversed the award of solicitor-client costs made by the Court of Appeal and substituted an award of party and party costs only. The Supreme Court specifically stated that “solicitor-client costs are not appropriate in this case.”

[12] I agree with the respondents that considering Rule 400(3), there is no just basis to award the applicants solicitor-client costs. Such an award is exceptional: Chretien v Canada (Commission of Inquiry into the Sponsorship Program and Advertising Activities, Gomery Commission), 2011 FCA 53 (CanLII) at para 3. There is no conduct of the respondents in this application that warrants such an award; nor is there any other circumstance that makes this a case warranting the highest award of costs. Although the application would have involved complex issues of law and have been of importance to the judicial system and the constitution of Canada, the application was derailed and supplanted by the Reference. As such, very little work needed to be done on the application by the applicants. The mere filing of it appears to have had the desired result.
But the court condescendingly patted him on the head and tossed him a few scraps.
[13] However, I accept that but for the applicants commencing this application, it was unlikely that the Reference would have occurred. At the time the application was filed, there was no apparent objection made to the appointment of Justice Nadon on constitutional grounds by any person or government. To that extent, one could argue that the applicants have done Canada a service and should not be out-of-pocket in so doing.

[14] There is no longer any lis between these parties, and the application will be dismissed; however, I am of the view that the applicants are entitled to a single award of costs.

[15] In these circumstances, it makes little sense to refer the costs to a taxing officer – it would not be an appropriate use of judicial resources. Recognizing that an award of costs is a matter of discretion, and considering the factors set out in Rule 400(3), I will order a single award of costs to the applicants, fixed on a lump sum basis in the amount of $5000.
Galati v. Harper, 2014 FC 1088
http://canlii.ca/t/gfl0p

$5,000 for saving Canada? There was no way an honourable upright dedicated Canadian like Rocco could suffer this outrage in silence. So he appealed it to the Federal Court of Appeal, the same court that Justice Nadon, the rejected jurist, came from and where he still remains. The decision just came out and it's not a pension and a vote of thanks from parliament for Rocco.

Galati v. Harper, 2016 FCA 39
http://canlii.ca/t/gn8jr

All he asked the FCA for was the same fair and reasonable fee payment that he'd been requesting all along;
[12] Mr. Galati argued for an award of costs in his favour calculated on the basis of 56.4 hours of service at an hourly rate of $800, plus disbursements in the amount of $638, for a total award (including tax) of $51,706. The CRC claimed costs of $16,769 based on 14.55 hours of service by its counsel, Mr. Slansky, at an hourly rate of $800. In argument, Mr. Galati acknowledged that his regular hourly rate is not $800 as his clientele do not have the means to pay such an exalted rate. He advised that $800 per hour is the rate for substantial indemnity pursuant to Part 1 of Tariff A of the Ontario Rules of Civil Procedure, R.R.O. 1990 Reg. 194, for lawyers of his year of call and experience.
But the government wasn't giving up denying it to him;

[13] The Attorney General opposed Mr. Galati’s and the CRC’s motions and filed a cross motion seeking the dismissal of the Joint Application. On the question of costs, the Attorney General argued that since, as of the date of the argument, no judgment had been rendered in the Joint Application, there was no successful party and therefore no basis for an order for costs. In any event, the Attorney General argued that there was no constitutional right to costs. If an order of costs were to be made, having regard to the factors mentioned in Rule 400(3) of the Federal Courts Rules, SOR/98-106, it should be a single award assessed on Column III of Tariff B.
The issues under appeal were;
[16] Mr. Galati and the CRC raise two issues. The first is that the Federal Court Judge erred in failing to analyze their claim that, in the case of public interest litigation which satisfies the test they propose, there is a constitutional requirement that a successful litigant be awarded his solicitor-client costs because the failure to do so is a breach of the constitutional right to a fair and impartial judiciary. The second issue is that, even if there is no constitutional right to solicitor-client costs, the Federal Court judge erred in failing to award them such costs in the circumstances of this case.

[17] In the alternative, Mr. Galati argues that the Federal Court’s reasons are unintelligible for purposes of appellate review. Having conducted such an appellate review, I find no merit to this allegation.
The second part addressed the rule that an court decision must be clear enough in its reasons that the parties can understand why they have won and lost. If not they have lost their fundamental right to appeal it. I've read the Federal Court decision and I had no problem at all understanding why Rocco lost but then I'm not a high-powered legal genius like he is.

The FCA decision started out by saying that the judges rendering it were somewhat puzzled by Rocco's apparent inability to comprehend the clear and simple rules set out for cost awards at the Federal Court.
[20] The first point to be disposed of is the hourly rate used by the Mr. Galati and the CRC in their respective claims for costs. Their claim to be entitled to the substantial indemnity rate of $800 which apparently would apply to these counsel under the Ontario Rules of Civil Procedure is puzzling. Mr. Galati and Mr. Slansky are both experienced counsel who presumably know that the costs of litigation conducted in the Federal Courts are awarded in accordance with the Federal Courts Rules. They would also presumably know that the Federal Courts Rules do not provide for an hourly rate benchmark (other than an amount per unit of service as described in the Tariff) such as the Rules of Civil Procedure apparently do. Given this knowledge, it is surprising that Mr. Galati would seek an order of costs in excess of what he would have billed a client for the same services.

[21] As a self-represented litigant, the best Mr. Galati could hope for, under the Federal Courts Rules and the jurisprudence on self-represented litigants is to recover his regular hourly rate: see Thibodeau v. Air Canada, 2007 FCA 115 (CanLII), [2007] F.C.J. No. 404, at paragraph 24.

[22] I might add that a claim for solicitor-client costs by a self-represented litigant is an oxymoron. A self-represented litigant, by definition, has no counsel and therefore no out-of-pocket expenses for which full indemnity is appropriate.

[23] As for the CRC, its claim for solicitor-client costs would be limited to its actual out-of-pocket expense for legal fees. If, as appears to be the case given Mr. Slansky’s request that any costs awarded by paid to him personally, counsel is acting pro bono, then the same considerations apply. Any award of solicitor-client costs would be limited to Mr. Slansky’s regular hourly rate. One is left to wonder why experienced counsel before the Federal Courts would seek costs calculated on a basis other than that provided by the Federal Courts Rules.
The first hurdle Rocco had to overcome was that he hadn't actually won his initial case. He'd made an application that failed. Nadon was denied his appointment after the Supreme Court itself decided to review if Nadon could be appointed under the complex rules regarding regional representation.
[28] The difficulty confronting the Joint Applicants is that they were not successful in their application. The Federal Court found that the Joint Application “was derailed and supplanted by the Reference”: see Reasons at paragraph 12. It was therefore dismissed for mootness. Mr. Galati and the CRC take the position that because the Reference produced the result which they sought in the Joint Application, they were successful and entitled therefore to their solicitor client costs. It doesn’t work that way. The fact that their application apparently set in motion a series of events which led to the conclusion which they hoped to achieve in their application does not make them successful litigants. It may make them successful politically or in the popular press, but that is a different matter. They can only claim costs in relation to the judicial treatment of the Joint Application which, as noted, was dismissed. To hold otherwise would be to create something in the nature of a finder’s fee for constitutional litigation.

[29] To the extent the right to solicitor client costs accrues only to successful litigants, the Joint Applicants do not satisfy that test. Given this finding, it is not necessary for me to examine the other elements of the test which Mr. Galati and the CRC propose other than to comment that it is far from obvious that the interpretation of sections 5 and 6 of the Act goes to the “architecture of the Constitution”.
So he'd already failed in his appeal at this point but the FCA decided to continue beating him over the head saying how the case was of no real importance and Rocco hadn't done much anyhow.

And then this solid kick to Rocco's private parts;
[32] For these reasons, then, the Joint Applicants have not shown that they come within the class of litigants who might be awarded solicitor client costs in public interest constitutional litigation, whether by right or through the exercise of the Court’s discretion. It is therefore unnecessary for me to deal with the argument as to constitutional entitlement as it does not arise on these facts. That said, it sometimes occurs that a party makes an argument that is so scandalous that it deserves to be condemned, whether it arises on the facts of the case or not. This is such a case.
It's a serious rebuke when a court calls a lawayer's conduct scandalous. What had Rocco done to deserve this?
[33] The following passages from Mr. Galati’s memorandum of fact and law encapsulates the argument which was made in this case:

With respect to the Respondent’s position that the right to solicitor-client costs has no nexus to a fair and independent judiciary, the Appellant (Rocco Galati) states that in such cases, which involve nothing but protecting the integrity of the constitution, constitutionally offensive legislation, or Executive action violating the “architecture of the constitution”, it has everything to do with a fair and independent judiciary. While the state apparatus is fully and amply funded to defend such violations, and a citizen who gets no personal benefit, per se, from upholding the integrity, structure and dictates of the Constitution, in successfully challenging such constitutional violations, to be denied his solicitor-client costs doing so can only lead to one conclusion in fact and in perception.

That conclusion is that any Court siding with the state on such cases cannot be said to be “fair or independent” in the least sense, in fact, and in perception, that Court would be, in fact and in perception, ‘in bed’ with the state Respondents.

Mr. Galati’s memorandum of fact and law at paragraphs 20-22 (emphasis in the original).

[34] It is important to understand what is being said here. Mr. Galati and the CRC state as a fact that a Court which, having agreed that certain government action was inconsistent with the Constitution and having therefore set it aside, will nonetheless be seen to be, and will in fact be, “in bed” with the government if it fails to award the successful applicant its solicitor client costs. The tie-in to the Constitution is that this collusion deprives the affected litigant of its constitutionally protected right to a fair and independent judiciary.

[35] To be “in bed” with someone is to collude with that person. I do not understand how one could hope to protect the right to a fair and independent judiciary by accusing courts of colluding with the government if they don’t give the applicant its solicitor client costs. The entire Court system, it seems, must be alleged to be actually or potentially acting in bad faith in order to instill public confidence in the fairness and independence of the judiciary. This is reminiscent of the gonzo logic of the Vietnam War era in which entire villages had to be destroyed in order to save them from the enemy. The fact that this argument is made in support of an unjustified monetary claim leads to the question “Whose interest is being served here?” Certainly not the administration of justice’s. This argument deserves to be condemned without reservation.

[36] In the circumstances, I am of the view that the Federal Court committed no error justifying our intervention and that even when, particularly when, the Joint Applicants’ arguments are analyzed, this appeal should be dismissed with costs. The Attorney General seeks total costs in the amount of $1,000. In the circumstances, that is more than reasonable. I would therefore dismiss the appeal with one set of costs to the Attorney General fixed at $1,000, all inclusive.
Gonzo logic? From Canada's greatest constitutional litigator? This insult cannot stand! On to the Supreme Court of Canada for justice! Let's find out who they're in bed with.
"Yes Burnaby49, I do in fact believe all process servers are peace officers. I've good reason to believe so." Robert Menard in his May 28, 2015 video "Process Servers".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeI-J2PhdGs
Burnaby49
Quatloosian Ambassador to the CaliCanadians
Quatloosian Ambassador to the CaliCanadians
Posts: 8246
Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2011 2:45 am
Location: The Evergreen Playground

Re: Rocco Galati

Post by Burnaby49 »

Now that Rocco's back in the news I thought I'd check up on his other issue, his inabilty or unwillingness to perform the rock-bottom basic requirement for any competent lawyer of filing a legible, acceptable statement of claim. I'm of course refering to the main issue in this discussion, the COMER lawsuit to have the Canadian government lend money interest free to pretty much anyone who wants it. So I checked out how things are going at the Federal court of Appeal website;
- 2016-02-08 Ottawa
Acknowledgment of Receipt received from all parties with respect to the Order and Reasons of the Court rendered on February 8, 2016. (via fax) placed on file on 08-FEB-2016
So the court gave a decision two days ago. Strange how it isn't front-line news across all of Canada. Perhaps the legal community is still analizing the profound implications for the nation now that COMER has won. Or perhaps they lost. Whoops!
Reasons and Order dated 08-FEB-2016 rendered by The Honourable Mr. Justice Russell Matter considered with personal appearance The Court's decision is with regard to Motion Doc. No. 35 Result: 1. The Plaintiff's latest Amended Claim is struck in its entirety; 2. Leave to amend is refused; 3. Costs awarded to the Defendants. Filed on 08-FEB-2016 Final Decision Certificate of Order entered in J. & O. Book, volume 1292 page(s) 156 - 157
About as total and humiliating a defeat as you can get. Poor Rocco, kicked in the balls twice in the same week! You'd think he was completely hopeless as a lawyer. The decision isn't on Canlii yet. I'll wander down to the Federal court registry and get a copy if it isn't out reasonably soon. I'll wait a bit though. I've already spent enough at the registry getting copies of COMER garbage.
"Yes Burnaby49, I do in fact believe all process servers are peace officers. I've good reason to believe so." Robert Menard in his May 28, 2015 video "Process Servers".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeI-J2PhdGs
bmxninja357
Admiral of the Quatloosian Seas
Admiral of the Quatloosian Seas
Posts: 1108
Joined: Wed May 07, 2014 6:46 am

Re: Rocco Galati

Post by bmxninja357 »

i was reading the latest garbage from our old pal jackieg on a freeman forum and i happened across this:

Rocco Galati on Coast to Coast tonite

Sunday - February 14, 2016
Bank of Canada Controversy/ Zika Virus
In the first half, Canadian constitutional lawyer Rocco Galati joins Richard Syrett to discuss an interesting legal case that is playing out in Canada. He filed an action in Federal Court to restore the use of the Bank of Canada to one of its original purposes-- to provide interest-free loans to the federal, provincial, and municipal governments.
Here is a pdf link to the latest edition of COMER
www.comer.org/archives/2015/COMER_NovDec2015.pdf

Rocco said China does not borrow from private banks.
China borrows from its own central bank interest free.
Since 1974 Canada has paid $1.3 trillion in interest to private banks.
That's YOUR INFRASTRUCTURE MONEY!!!
so as usual jackieg did not post a link to the show, and those there are to lazy to google it and post a link, instead they whine like this:

verynewtothis

LINK PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

https://members.premiereinteractive.com ... 3Fpcdr%3D1

Only subscribers to Coast Insider can access live radio broadcasts, exclusive videos, show archives, daily radio show highlights and a lot more.
so i figured instead of leaving it it that i would post a link to the show here. boy was it hard to find. took me almost 10 full seconds. i can see why vntt had such a hard time. the funny part will be seeing how long it takes for the link to make it from hither to tither.

so for your amusement, rocco on coast to coast am.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbF5-XzzIBk

peace,
ninj
whoever said laughter is the best medicine never had gonorrhea....