Psam Frank - Sovereign with his own laws and court

[Philistine]

Ah, sovruns. It's either anarchy or like our Psam here, they try to reinvent the wheel. Except the wheel seems to be square, no one knows who will build or maintain it, and there's nothing to which it will ba attached...yet.
They'll figure that out as they go and they'll end up with a poor construct of that which we've been trying to perfect for millennia. Larff.

[Chaos]

I wish you had told me that before I went on my murder spree in Victoria last September.

It was Victoria's secret.

icwutudidthar

[LordEd]

Also think about every country's 2 million sovereigns needing to come to trade agreements, border agreements, etc. with every other country's 2 million sovereigns.

So far ISS has been unable to come to agreements with Canada or the forum of Quatloos, and has likely pissed off the Queen of England.

Also Psam has shown a tendency to be unable to govern his own behavior, let alone a group of individuals of unknown number (perhaps imaginary).

So again, in case you forgot I asked, how many people are members of ISS? Or perhaps a better question is, how many paying members are there?

[Psam]

Why would You think that a member should have to pay for membership? No, there is no fee.

I'm not going to answer the question about how many members there are. If You'd like to know, print out and sign this form here: http://issociety.org/wp-content/uploads ... tution.pdf

Send it to:

Psam Frank
Prime Representative
Interactive Sovereign Society
#204 - 2222 Cambridge St.
Vancouver BC
V5N 5L5

About two to four weeks after that, You should get confirmation of your membership. At that point, You will have answers to questions such as "how many members are there". You can resign your membership and go tell all your Friends. No problem.

If You find that there are few enough members that You could easily outnumber Them by getting all your Friends to join and then ousting the present Prime Representative in the electoral system, like You were mentioning earlier, then don't resign immediately. Make it happen! C'mon, it'd be fun. Of course there is the three month guaranteed term I was telling You about, so after getting the highest number of votes, You'd have to last three months without the lead being regained by the incumbent. Never know which of your Friends think "hmm, well what if this system really would work if it were used by millions? Hmm, maybe We should give Psam a bit more time because this really is interesting." Could happen. Some People believe that the freedom to make choices with as few restrictions as possible is a good thing. Then of course You'd have to get more Friends to join to outnumber the turncoats that left You high and dry. Pity They're allowed to change their own minds about their beliefs eh? Proof that People shouldn't be allowed to do that!

Oh yeah another thing You should know is how the Representative Collaborators section of the ISS Charter works. (http://issociety.org/wp-content/uploads/charter.pdf page 3) Even if You are elected Prime Representative, any other member who is within 1 vote of You can delay any decision You make until it satisfies their own electorate. Of course, if You've outnumbered the present members, that shouldn't be a problem.

One more thing is that if it becomes evident that your participation, electoral or otherwise, is anything other than a sincere attempt to evaluate the usefulness of the interactive electoral system based on practical experience, then You could have your membership revoked, no matter how many votes You have toward the position of Prime Representative. Of course, the judicial panel would have to decide in a vote of at least 2/3 of its members to do that, but if I make my case well to demonstrate beyond reasonable doubt that You are doing so, then of course the panel may be expected to terminate your membership. As the defendant in such a hearing, You would get to choose the panel size: 5, 7, or 9, one being the chair who agrees to preside over the hearing and the others being an equal number selected by You and Me. (http://issociety.org/wp-content/uploads ... ations.pdf) If You think I'm such a quack in court, then here's another chance to show it. Oh yeah, and a chance to demonstrate firsthand what a joke the ISS justice system is. You'd be doing quatloos proud, or at the very least creating miles of new conversation materials for your Friends who must love this to be spending so much time doing it.

[LordEd]

Why would You think that a member should have to pay for membership? No, there is no fee.

With the above reasons in mind, the ISS therefore affirms that it is consistent with ISS principles for a
member to be required to make contributions as are specified in the Act to be made by taxpayers if one of
the following conditions is satisfied:
• those taxes are allocated for usage by a legislative assembly that does not deny section 3 Charter rights
for periods of time,
• the member consensually prefers to have expenditures of those taxes allocated by Parliament and
voluntarily waives their section 3 Charter rights for periods of time, or
• a demonstration is provided that the denial of section 3 Charter rights for periods of time is a
reasonable limit that can be justified in a free and democratic society, thus satisfying section 1 of the
Charter.

The bolded portion, meaning ISS. Paying customers. Or in Quatloos term, tax scam.

I'm not going to answer the question about how many members there are.

I see. Your organization prefers secrecy over transparency.

Psam Frank
Prime Representative

We assume so. Since your ballot system is rigged with no transparent process, I'll just assume as an outsider that its also rigged.

I can get election results from any civilized country, with statistics on eligible voters and turnout.

About two to four weeks after that, You should get confirmation of your membership. At that point, You will have answers to questions such as "how many members are there". You can resign your membership and go tell all your Friends. No problem.

No thanks. I would prefer to not have my private information subject to an organization which likely has no privacy policy or can just decide that any privacy act is 'not consistent' and ignore it.

Of course there is the three month guaranteed term I was telling You about, so after getting the highest number of votes, You'd have to last three months without the lead being regained by the incumbent.

PLUS

One more thing is that if it becomes evident that your participation, electoral or otherwise, is anything other than a sincere attempt to evaluate the usefulness of the interactive electoral system based on practical experience, then You could have your membership revoked, no matter how many votes You have toward the position of Prime Representative. Of course, the judicial panel would have to decide in a vote of at least 2/3 of its members to do that, but if I make my case well to demonstrate beyond reasonable doubt that You are doing so, then of course the panel may be expected to terminate your membership.

Meaning if the Prime dictator doesn't like how the 'voter' is voting, they can be arbitrarily prejudiced against by forcing them into a hearing to explain why they aren't voting the way you like.

I think that proves my case. In summary:
- Secret membership with no external oversight (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Show_election)
- "Proven" electoral system unlikely to number above single digit participants.
- Arbitrary dismissal or prejudice towards of dissenting voices
- Rules for foundation of tax scam

[theSovereign1]

sounds like you rely on many of assumptions and you have no balls to me ed...forgive me for not using the "lord" part but that is very creepy as i wouldn't want a talking horse lording over me...lmao

[Wake Up! Productions]

Why would You think that a member should have to pay for membership? No, there is no fee.

I'm not going to answer the question about how many members there are. If You'd like to know, print out and sign this form here: http://issociety.org/wp-content/uploads ... tution.pdf

Please Explain this Unnecessary capitalisation.

[Wake Up! Productions]

sounds like you rely on many of assumptions and you have no balls to me ed...forgive me for not using the "lord" part but that is very creepy as i wouldn't want a talking horse lording over me...lmao

[LordEd]

sounds like you rely on many of assumptions and you have no balls to me ed...forgive me for not using the "lord" part but that is very creepy as i wouldn't want a talking horse lording over me...lmao

Coming from an admitted spouse abuser forgive me if I won't take much stock in your opinion.

Go exercise your s.12 rights with Psam here. I think you'd like each other, except I think your right to beat your wife might conflict with Psam's belief in love, trust, mutual respect and pink ponies.

[Burnaby49]

sounds like you rely on many of assumptions and you have no balls to me ed...forgive me for not using the "lord" part but that is very creepy as i wouldn't want a talking horse lording over me...lmao

Exactly. He's carpet bombing us with gibberish.

[Hyrion]

Of course, the judicial panel would have to decide in a vote of at least 2/3 of its members to do that

So - a higher authority in the structure of ISS can punish a member after all. Just like any other government operated society.... or can they?

You would get to choose the panel size: 5, 7, or 9, one being the chair who agrees to preside over the hearing and the others being an equal number selected by You and Me.

1 = Chair
4 = Selected by plaintiff (which Psam apparently assumes will be himself)
4 = Selected by defendent

Out of the 9, 2/3 need to vote against defendent. That's a count of 6 of the 9. So - assuming there isn't a dictator - so long as the 4 friends of the defendent vote for the defendent (no matter what they actually think of any "evidence") - no complaint will every get through to a state of punishment. So now we're back to a system that is unable to punish anyone that "breaks a law".

[theSovereign1]

sounds like you rely on many of assumptions and you have no balls to me ed...forgive me for not using the "lord" part but that is very creepy as i wouldn't want a talking horse lording over me...lmao

Coming from an admitted spouse abuser forgive me if I won't take much stock in your opinion.

Go exercise your s.12 rights with Psam here. I think you'd like each other, except I think your right to beat your wife might conflict with Psam's belief in love, trust, mutual respect and pink ponies.

since when am i an admitted spouse abuser fag ed? just because I give examples and stand up for the principals of freedom dosn't mean I condone every behavior...its your retarded assumptions that make you look like an idiot ed...maybe you should refrain from ass u me ing things...you might make a friend...oh i forgot u dont need nun but yer dog but-lick!

[LordEd]

theSovereign1 wrote:
psychopathic control freaks like you believe people are not free to beat their wives or vice versa

New member for you Psam.

[Burnaby49]

theSovereign1 wrote:
psychopathic control freaks like you believe people are not free to beat their wives or vice versa

New member for you Psam.

Don't be ridiculous. Allen has never advocated or supported the Prime Representative's interactive electoral system. Psam wants only dedicated sincere members.

[Wake Up! Productions]

theSovereign1 wrote:
psychopathic control freaks like you believe people are not free to beat their wives or vice versa

New member for you Psam.

Not that I am defending him, but context is everything ... being a Dominant in a BDSM relationship, yes I am free to beat my wife, WITH HER CONSENT !!!

[LordEd]

Get your section 12 rights on WUP. Constitutional law is sexy.

[theSovereign1]

Why would You think that a member should have to pay for membership? No, there is no fee.

I'm not going to answer the question about how many members there are. If You'd like to know, print out and sign this form here: http://issociety.org/wp-content/uploads ... tution.pdf

Please Explain this Unnecessary capitalisation.

YOU is a plural and a red hearing...hope that helps you

[Wake Up! Productions]

Why would You think that a member should have to pay for membership? No, there is no fee.

I'm not going to answer the question about how many members there are. If You'd like to know, print out and sign this form here: http://issociety.org/wp-content/uploads ... tution.pdf

Please Explain this Unnecessary capitalisation.

YOU is a plural and a red hearing...hope that helps you

Not really, the only things that require capitalisation are NOUNS ... persons, places or things. DUHHH !!!

[theSovereign1]

theSovereign1 wrote:
psychopathic control freaks like you believe people are not free to beat their wives or vice versa

New member for you Psam.

Don't be ridiculous. Allen has never advocated or supported the Prime Representative's interactive electoral system. Psam wants only dedicated sincere members.

you are correct i have not supported it but i did consider his theories and it sounds almost interesting, and I do not comment on things I have not researched...and if you notice my words in that quote carefully i did not say i advocate abuse...just that we all have that freedom. I have never felt the need to abuse my spouse, in my belief women should be respected as I do not have their ability to grow a life form and I think its quite a miracle. and I do not condone violence in any way unless its in self defense.

[theSovereign1]

Please Explain this Unnecessary capitalisation.

YOU is a plural and a red hearing...hope that helps you

Not really, the only things that require capitalisation are NOUNS ... persons, places or things. DUHHH !!!

....and legal references or something one might want to bring attention to.

on another note inst your statement interesting...as the government capitalizes the name pretty much for everything....