Dean Clifford: Sentencing & Beyond

[Exploited]

exploited,

how much have you seen of deans racist side? does he still use any of the racist groups and/or bikers or gangs in his dealings?

just curious.
thanks,
ninj

Source provided: http://anti-racistcanada.blogspot.ca/20 ... egins.html

I know nothing of this, but I do know he has many little groups and keeps everyone separated.

[bmxninja357]

exploited,

to be quite honest i hold the freedom movements quite dear. the problem is many a douche bag leader and many believe doing your own research means taking youtube university's word for things. i have found many folks to be genuinely good folks. many are non judgmental and straight shooters.

the problem forms when they put a moron on high and think he has the answers. he dosen't and never will. nothing in life is free and never has been. and after you have been sold a bill of goods and easy answers you start to believe the hype without checking if its real. the truth is there but no one wants to see it for what it is.

i still think there is ways to make the world a better more liberty oriented place. and i hope you still do too. but to do it one must work within the system and play by its rules. thats how the change comes. very slowly at best.

again,
glad your here.
ninj

[Wake Up! Productions]

I know nothing of this, but I do know he has many little groups and keeps everyone compartmentalized. he brokers the same deals with other people and plays them off one another, he does this with his women also. his very duplicitous in nature. it is no wonder all his schemes always fall apart. I am aware there was one freeman group he was going to buy property with, but they all pulled out because Dean wanted everything in his name. of course he plays the victim in all his interactions with others. hey, he did this with me having other group on the side so he gets to benefit from the efforts from either group but he do no actual work himself. if there is money to be made taken, I don't think Dean would care what color your skin is. after all, he wasn't willing to take the load with answering some support emails but the moment the subscribers are potentially be told the truth about him, oh then he is willing to accept emails. it's all about $$$ with him and no solutions he can offer.

As for me, I like to say that I am a "RECOVERING" freeman. Unlike Ninja, I no longer place any faith in any "movement". If change is to happen, it can only be done by the INDIVIDUAL. Movements are exactly what they infer, much like a BOWEL MOVEMENT - it is to expel the old. MOVEMENTS are just like REVOLUTIONS, they go around in a cycle, and keep expelling the old - but nothing EVER changes !!!

Remember, in 2008 Obama ran on the slogan "CHANGE you can BELIEVE in". Sadly, the truth is, the only change you can believe in is the change that the INDIVIDUAL makes happen. Movements merely FLUSH out the old, but do not guarantee real CHANGE !!!

The Freeman MOVEMENT has pretty much FLUSHED out Robert Menard and Dean Clifford - and they will be replaced by others - and nothing will ever CHANGE !!!

[k1w1]

it's all about $$$ with him and no solutions he can offer.

Exploited, I get the impression that you were a Clifford follower, maybe even for some years.

So when did you figure out that he has no solutions and that he is all about the lucre and that he treats people like crap and tells lies about his exploits and is generally a dishonest operator? Did you know all that before he shat on you personally, or is all this stuff you discovered about him only after he did that to you? I have a bad feeling it was the former and you willfully ignored it until it happened to you personally... just like Cari-Lee did.

You said you can't believe Dean thought you'd do all that work for his project without expecting to pay for your effort. I could believe it if you were one of his followers who he might have thought was doing it for altruistic reasons. If, however, you had some sort of tech business and he approached you to do some work... well, you know, that would be different. When you started doing the work did you have an agreement like any typical business that he would give you something in exchange? Did you give him a quote or an estimate to do the work?

Did you even have a web design business and a business card etc. before you started doing work for Dean's project, or did that come after?

[Wake Up! Productions]

I should add that Dean Clifford is an INDIVIDUAL ... however he is attempting to create his own MOVEMENT (EarthSC).

All MOVEMENTS eventually fail in the end.

Take for example the American Civil Rights movement. It was not the MOVEMENT per say that affected change. It was the INDIVIDUALS like Martin Luther King, Jr. and Rosa Parks who affected the REAL change.

[Chaos]

exploited,

how much have you seen of deans racist side? does he still use any of the racist groups and/or bikers or gangs in his dealings?

just curious.
thanks,
ninj

Source provided: http://anti-racistcanada.blogspot.ca/20 ... egins.html

I know nothing of this, but I do know he has many little groups and keeps everyone compartmentalized. he brokers the same deals with other people and plays them off one another, he does this with his women also. his very duplicitous in nature. it is no wonder all his schemes always fall apart. I am aware there was one freeman group he was going to buy property with, but they all pulled out because Dean wanted everything in his name. of course he plays the victim in all his interactions with others. hey, he did this with me having other group on the side so he gets to benefit from the efforts from either group but he do no actual work himself. if there is money to be made taken, I don't think Dean would care what color your skin is. after all, he wasn't willing to take the load with answering some support emails but the moment the subscribers are potentially be told the truth about him, oh then he is willing to accept emails. it's all about $$$ with him and no solutions he can offer.

what's the story with him going out and buying the new tool belt but forgetting to load it with tools to make a video?

[arayder]

I hate to be Johnny One Note, but the cure for this kind of deception is to demand full financial disclosure by freeman gurus.

I have hectored Bobby Menard about opening the books of his several projects only to have him opine that his public dealings and what he does with everybody else's money is really private.

I don't see why the same principles of accountability and openness wouldn't apply to Dean Clifford or any other freeman guru asking for money.

Any freeman guru who can't account for funds, whether they be donated or part of memberships, and give regular and accurate reports of project progress doesn't deserve the money.

[Wake Up! Productions]

Not sure where to post this, but seeing as though Dean was a recent guest on the Vinny Eastwood Show, I thought it was best posted here.

It appears as though Vinny Eastwood's Facebook GROUP (not his personal page) has been HACKED !!! https://www.facebook.com/groups/2013952 ... nref=story

Ok so Grupi Dymi has hacked The Vinny Eastwood Show! Group,
removed me and the other admins and changed the name of the group to General Knowledge GK
Please report this person to facebook as soon as you can everyone!
TELL FACEBOOK: This person https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id ... nref=story
HAS HACKED THIS GROUP

[arayder]

As for me, I like to say that I am a "RECOVERING" freeman. Unlike Ninja, I no longer place any faith in any "movement". If change is to happen, it can only be done by the INDIVIDUAL. Movements are exactly what they infer, much like a BOWEL MOVEMENT - it is to expel the old. MOVEMENTS are just like REVOLUTIONS, they go around in a cycle, and keep expelling the old - but nothing EVER changes !!!

Remember, in 2008 Obama ran on the slogan "CHANGE you can BELIEVE in". Sadly, the truth is, the only change you can believe in is the change that the INDIVIDUAL makes happen. Movements merely FLUSH out the old, but do not guarantee real CHANGE !!!

The Freeman MOVEMENT has pretty much FLUSHED out Robert Menard and Dean Clifford - and they will be replaced by others - and nothing will ever CHANGE !!!

I should add that Dean Clifford is an INDIVIDUAL ... however he is attempting to create his own MOVEMENT (EarthSC).

All MOVEMENTS eventually fail in the end.

Take for example the American Civil Rights movement. It was not the MOVEMENT per say that affected change. It was the INDIVIDUALS like Martin Luther King, Jr. and Rosa Parks who affected the REAL change.

Freemanism had the opportunity to address the phenomenon by which the government (chief executives, legislatures and courts) became the "estate" which dominates change in society.

This phenomenon pushes the press/media, the church, academia, businesses and the individual to the sidelines. This means societal change is effected by getting control of the government especially the courts. Thus addressing societal problems isn't done by changing the hearts and minds of the people through the press, in houses of worship or by personal persuasion but by petitioning the state to act as society's nanny.

To its discredit freemanism ended up being about getting out from under the law (even the most reasonable ones) and bilking businesses out of goods and services.

The irony is that the misdeeds of freemen only strengthened the courts.

Since freemen don't care what anybody outside their subculture says, freeman crimes like reckless driving, child/spousal abuse and theft by deception weren't in any way controlled by public outrage and approbation, but rather by the courts which were left to enforce the laws freemen deny apply to them.

[Philistine]

it's all about $$$ with him and no solutions he can offer.

Exploited, I get the impression that you were a Clifford follower, maybe even for some years.

So when did you figure out that he has no solutions and that he is all about the lucre and that he treats people like crap and tells lies about his exploits and is generally a dishonest operator? Did you know all that before he shat on you personally, or is all this stuff you discovered about him only after he did that to you? I have a bad feeling it was the former and you willfully ignored it until it happened to you personally... just like Cari-Lee did.

You said you can't believe Dean thought you'd do all that work for his project without expecting to pay for your effort. I could believe it if you were one of his followers who he might have thought was doing it for altruistic reasons. If, however, you had some sort of tech business and he approached you to do some work... well, you know, that would be different. When you started doing the work did you have an agreement like any typical business that he would give you something in exchange? Did you give him a quote or an estimate to do the work?

Did you even have a web design business and a business card etc. before you started doing work for Dean's project, or did that come after?

Funny, I thought the exact same thing...
It's like coming to court with unclean hands. You shouldn't expect relief.

[eric]

it's all about $$$ with him and no solutions he can offer.

Exploited, I get the impression that you were a Clifford follower, maybe even for some years.

So when did you figure out that he has no solutions and that he is all about the lucre and that he treats people like crap and tells lies about his exploits and is generally a dishonest operator? Did you know all that before he shat on you personally, or is all this stuff you discovered about him only after he did that to you? I have a bad feeling it was the former and you willfully ignored it until it happened to you personally... just like Cari-Lee did.
?

Funny, I thought the exact same thing...
It's like coming to court with unclean hands. You shouldn't expect relief.

Hmmm, so the pair of you seem to believe that unless Exploited did all the work for Dean as a totally arms length transaction we should discount everything they say. Similarly Cari-Lee was also a believer at one time, but because she changed her mind we shouldn't trust her, simply because k1w1 has a "bad feeling", not backed up by any evidence. Just a rough paraphrase of what you seem to be saying.

[Wake Up! Productions]

Hmmm, so the pair of you seem to believe that unless Exploited did all the work for Dean as a totally arms length transaction we should discount everything they say. Similarly Cari-Lee was also a believer at one time, but because she changed her mind we shouldn't trust her, simply because k1w1 has a "bad feeling", not backed up by any evidence. Just a rough paraphrase of what you seem to be saying.

Personally I think any debate on this is pointless. I for one am just glad that Exploited is here. As I explained to him in a PM, I was also contacted by Alex (another former webmaster) when he quit 18 months ago. I still have Alex's emails to me saved in my Hotmail.

If anyone should be critical or skeptical of Exploited, it should be me - he did after all take down my main Youtube channel. Yes sure, in the end we all reap what we sew - but that is his burden, not mine. I broke free of the "freeman movement" because I had a conscience, and saw that it was all a giant scam. Whether or not this was Exploited's reason matters not to me. What matters is that he is here.

[Philistine]

Exploited, I get the impression that you were a Clifford follower, maybe even for some years.

So when did you figure out that he has no solutions and that he is all about the lucre and that he treats people like crap and tells lies about his exploits and is generally a dishonest operator? Did you know all that before he shat on you personally, or is all this stuff you discovered about him only after he did that to you? I have a bad feeling it was the former and you willfully ignored it until it happened to you personally... just like Cari-Lee did.
?

Funny, I thought the exact same thing...
It's like coming to court with unclean hands. You shouldn't expect relief.

Hmmm, so the pair of you seem to believe that unless Exploited did all the work for Dean as a totally arms length transaction we should discount everything they say. Similarly Cari-Lee was also a believer at one time, but because she changed her mind we shouldn't trust her, simply because k1w1 has a "bad feeling", not backed up by any evidence. Just a rough paraphrase of what you seem to be saying.

I have no idea what k1w1 is thinking as we usually don't agree, but I'm just saying perhaps Exploited isn't so deserving of the "poor you" treatment s/he is receiving here. "Reap what you sow" comes to mind but I'm open to being corrected.

[Wake Up! Productions]

I have no idea what k1w1 is thinking as we usually don't agree, but I'm just saying perhaps Exploited isn't so deserving of the "poor you" treatment s/he is receiving here. "Reap what you sow" comes to mind but I'm open to being corrected.

For me it is not about "poor you" treatment. It is about the fact that since joining Q, to my knowledge Exploited has not been disruptive or shown disrespect to anyone here. I think that he deserves equal respect until such time as his posts show otherwise (ie Pigpot).

[Chaos]

Funny, I thought the exact same thing...
It's like coming to court with unclean hands. You shouldn't expect relief.

Hmmm, so the pair of you seem to believe that unless Exploited did all the work for Dean as a totally arms length transaction we should discount everything they say. Similarly Cari-Lee was also a believer at one time, but because she changed her mind we shouldn't trust her, simply because k1w1 has a "bad feeling", not backed up by any evidence. Just a rough paraphrase of what you seem to be saying.

I have no idea what k1w1 is thinking as we usually don't agree, but I'm just saying perhaps Exploited isn't so deserving of the "poor you" treatment s/he is receiving here. "Reap what you sow" comes to mind but I'm open to being corrected.

kinda lost here. someone is contracted to do some work, gets stiffed on said work, and it's reap what you sow?

[arayder]

Exploited, I get the impression that you were a Clifford follower, maybe even for some years.

So when did you figure out that he has no solutions and that he is all about the lucre and that he treats people like crap and tells lies about his exploits and is generally a dishonest operator? Did you know all that before he shat on you personally, or is all this stuff you discovered about him only after he did that to you? I have a bad feeling it was the former and you willfully ignored it until it happened to you personally... just like Cari-Lee did.
?

Funny, I thought the exact same thing...
It's like coming to court with unclean hands. You shouldn't expect relief.

Hmmm, so the pair of you seem to believe that unless Exploited did all the work for Dean as a totally arms length transaction we should discount everything they say. Similarly Cari-Lee was also a believer at one time, but because she changed her mind we shouldn't trust her, simply because k1w1 has a "bad feeling", not backed up by any evidence. Just a rough paraphrase of what you seem to be saying.

I don't think the point, so much, is that Exploited shouldn't be believed, but that he should not have been surprised by Dean's behavior since he saw Dean cheating others before he cheated him.

I grant you there seems to have been a period of time during which Exploited realized he wasn't getting treated fairly, nor was going to be treated so and said he wanted to leave.

[wanglepin]

Has Dean Clifford been sentenced yet? If so what did he get and what for? please

[bmxninja357]

Friday January 8, 2016 is the magic day.

peace,
ninj

[Exploited]

Seeing how he lies through his teeth constantly and never keeps a promise he makes, It was expected as such in the end, so therefore I'm not surprised. I made it abundantly clear I did not want to be married to this thing and will be moving on. this was reiterated to him repeatedly. This probably made him feel burdened because he clearly didn't want to do any real work himself and just wanted peoples money. I had a very strong inclination he was not to be trusted from the get go anyway. I was not committed to be sticking around long anyway. Guess it was more out of curiosity and to be apart of something as my day job can be quite isolating and boring. So for most part, it was just entertainment for me. my greasy car salesman detector is pretty spot on.

the tender for services was purely business but followed his rants online for entertainment purposes. he has no demonstrable solutions and has had no successes in court.

[Wake Up! Productions]

Seeing how he lies through his teeth constantly and never keeps a promise he makes, It was expected as such in the end, so therefore I'm not surprised. I made it abundantly clear I did not want to be married to this thing and will be moving on. this was reiterated to him repeatedly. This probably made him feel burdened because he clearly didn't want to do any real work himself and just wanted peoples money. I had a very strong inclination he was not to be trusted from the get go anyway and was not committed to be sticking around long anyway. Guess it was more out of curiosity and to be apart of something as my day job can be quite isolating and boring. So for most part, it was just entertainment for me. my greasy car salesman detector is pretty spot on.

the tender for services was purely business but followed his rants online for entertainment purposes. he has no demonstrable solutions and has had no successes in court.

Rather than us asking multiple questions of you, can you make a quick list of lies that you personally caught him in?