which canadian was it?

[bmxninja357]

so i happened across and article with this quote:

In 2015, around 1,800 were collected. Hundreds of those were voluntarily turned in, but 858 were connected to criminal investigations. Police say 130 of those guns were seized from one address of an alleged Freeman on the Land follower, an anti-police movement.

whole item: http://globalnews.ca/news/2454961/rcmp- ... -rise-105/

anyone know whom it is?
ninj

[arayder]

Is it Shawn Rehn?

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2015/01/19 ... 03876.html

[bmxninja357]

i cant seem to find anything on who it was. but i was working in an area this year and hiway 28 at hiway 831 were closed for a while due to an accident. passenger vehicle vs wide load with 3 push trucks. when the passenger vehicle rolled it took the cops hours to find all the guns that flew out. the driver died at the scene and the only reason i know the guns were there is i know the farmer whos land many firearms landed on. i suspect this may be the same seizure but i saw no freeman connection at all. and with no name to attach i cant confirm or deny if its the same incident.

the driver of the passenger vehicle was on the phone doing close to 180kph then he looked up and went under the load tipping it into the ditch and throwing the firearms great distances. he was the only casualty. every truck had damage but the drivers were unharmed.

peace,
ninj

[Jeffrey]

I think we would have heard about this if it had happened.

No freeman we track has been busted with 130 guns. Hell, none of them could afford that many guns.

[bmxninja357]

And to be a bit technical everyone on these forums is a freeman on the land follower. Not to be confused with a fotl adherent.

It seems fishy that they make the big sizure claim but give no detail at all. No name. No location. No date. No types of weapons.

Seems like someone might be angling for budget. Let's face it, once pot is legal in canada police spending should be cut proportionally to the expenditure on pot policing and procecution.

So guns and freemen might be the scapegoat for more money. Even though in canada the threat is minimal at best.

Ninj

[Hyrion]

Let's face it, once pot is legal in canada police spending should be cut proportionally to the expenditure on pot policing and procecution.

I'd rather they didn't. I'd rather they put those funds towards other areas that are under-manned and under-funded before considering any cuts.

[arayder]

The original story says that the authorities confiscated 130 firearms from one freeman.

I live in a gun culture and I don't know anybody besides a gun store owner who has 130 guns. And I can't conceive of anybody loading 130 guns into their car and then driving 180 k down the road. I'm not questioning ninja's veracity. I am saying this freeman showed some really awful judgement.

Jeffery said:

No freeman we track has been busted with 130 guns. Hell, none of them could afford that many guns.

It's dollars to donuts the guy was up to no good. He had to have had backers who were out their money and customers who were disappointed.

Unless I am missing something this episode represents the presence of an illegal gun trade in Canada and suggests that some freemen are a part of it.

I am surprised the cops said 'boo" about it until they had rounded up everybody they could. Ya' gotta figure that the money boys behind this are laying very low. They are probably happy the guy died.

[arayder]

Wait. This story says:

In 2015, around 1,800 were collected. Hundreds of those were voluntarily turned in, but 858 were connected to criminal investigations. Police say 130 of those guns were seized from one address of an alleged Freeman on the Land follower, an anti-police movement.

My emphasis.

http://globalnews.ca/news/2454961/rcmp- ... -rise-105/

[notorial dissent]

And to be a bit technical everyone on these forums is a freeI am inclined to agree with you hereman on the land follower. Not to be confused with a fotl adherent.

It seems fishy that they make the big sizure claim but give no detail at all. No name. No location. No date. No types of weapons.

Seems like someone might be angling for budget. Let's face it, once pot is legal in canada police spending should be cut proportionally to the expenditure on pot policing and procecution.

So guns and freemen might be the scapegoat for more money. Even though in canada the threat is minimal at best.

Ninj

I am inclined to agree with you here, I think the ONLY verifiable fact(s) in the story is that it, the accident happened, pretty much as described, and that there were A LOT of guns involved. Beyond that, not so much. It won't be the first time that a news report mangled the facts beyond all recognition and/or took something that was said as a generality and applied it to the situation. I think the lack of corroborating items would tend to lead to that.

[bmxninja357]

i do not think the combined arsenal of both hells angels chapters and there puppet clubs in my area have 130 firearms combined.

even if you were to look at the pantheon of items considered firearms in canada, some compound bows, crossbows, pellet guns, slingshots, etc, etc, etc. (it completely depends on where you are in canada.) its quite a number. i have seen some good collections of legal firearms and nothing remotely close to this number. and much smaller collections if the arsenal is of questionable origin.

peace,
ninj

[bmxninja357]

I live in a gun culture and I don't know anybody besides a gun store owner who has 130 guns. And I can't conceive of anybody loading 130 guns into their car and then driving 180 k down the road. I'm not questioning ninja's veracity. I am saying this freeman showed some really awful judgement.

there has been absolutely no evidence such a seizure occurred from a freeman on the land.

and as to one address its still far more guns per number of folks living on any one stretch of property i have seen. even a commune would share weapons. dosent make much sense. can anyone here see x amount of freemen in one place getting busted with over a hundred weapons and no news mention?

but the media loves a good story. particularly if you can try and connect freemen with guns.

peace,
ninj

[eric]

The original story says that the authorities confiscated 130 firearms from one freeman.
I live in a gun culture and I don't know anybody besides a gun store owner who has 130 guns. And I can't conceive of anybody loading 130 guns into their car and then driving 180 k down the road. I'm not questioning ninja's veracity. I am saying this freeman showed some really awful judgement.

Jeffery said:

No freeman we track has been busted with 130 guns. Hell, none of them could afford that many guns.

It's dollars to donuts the guy was up to no good. He had to have had backers who were out their money and customers who were disappointed.

Unless I am missing something this episode represents the presence of an illegal gun trade in Canada and suggests that some freemen are a part of it.

I am surprised the cops said 'boo" about it until they had rounded up everybody they could. Ya' gotta figure that the money boys behind this are laying very low. They are probably happy the guy died.

Time to interject here. Here's some background information about the "serious" gun collection culture in Canada. Many of these collectors have well over 100 weapons. As an example, when I was living at home, between my father (who owned the majority) and myself the count was often up well over one hundred. All of these weapons were perfectly legal, the vast majority were non-restricted, plus a few restricted and "grandfathered" prohibited weapons that matched our particular interests at the time. A few salient points:
1. Many, if not most, of these collectors are well known to the Canadian authorities;
2. It's a fact of life that often a serious collector will be approached by those who aren't particularly interested in following the letter of the often complex Canadian law;
3. There are a few, probably very few, who are very quiet followers of some of the FMOTL theories but they don't make a habit of doing stupid things at traffic stops unless they're confident in their case. Many of these guys I've known since pre-internet days (anybody remember FidoNet?) and could best be described as "sympathizers" of the 1980's US sovereignist movement and supporters of the Sagebrush wars.

[arayder]

That's a good point, Eric. Just having 130 guns ain't necessarily against the law.

[bmxninja357]

i guess we are missing why the weapons were seized also. could it be an old guy died and no one was licensed to take the collection? or something of that nature? im automatically jumping to criminal and that may not be entirely true. there could be many reasons a collection is seized without the matter being criminal in nature.

ninj

[eric]

From personal experience, I would strongly suggest that any of the few "grandfathered" prohibited weapons collectors left in Canada, or those who have a substantial collection (it may depend on type) get a working relationship with the authorities and keep their noses clean. There is just too much open to interpretation by a crusading Crown to turn what could be an amicable discussion about the exact methodology of safe storage into criminal charges. I don't know if any records are kept as to the seperation of weapons seized as part of a criminal investigation and those turned over by relatives but anecdotal evidence suggests that a substantial number of weapons, mostly junk, but the occassional find are melted down by the authorities. As other posters have mentioned, few estate administrator's are particularly interested in realizing the full monetary potential of that reclusive grandad's old war relics, it's much easier just to drop things off at the local police station.

[Forsyth]

There was an interesting case in the UK a few years back:

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/ne ... -semi.html
THIS is the gun collector arrested by cops who yesterday seized hundreds of weapons from his home.

A huge arsenal — including pump-action shotguns, automatic and semi-automatic weapons — was found at Michael Shepherd's semi.[1]

Guns and ammunition were mounted on every wall of his home, which had a stars and stripes flag flying outside.

The seizure — thought to be Britain's biggest ever — is believed to be a key breakthrough in the fight against gun crime and follows an 18-month operation with US cops.
...
Det Chief Supt Kevin Davis said: "I've never seen anything like it. Guns are mounted on every available wall space and live ammunition was found lying on the floor. Some may be legal, some may not."

[1] Semi = Semi-detached house, a house that shares one wall with its neighbour. Not a vehicle.

http://www.newsshopper.co.uk/news/14523 ... ice_sting/
...
Michael Shepherd, aged 56, was caught red-handed selling revolvers to undercover officers from his house in Dartford, the Old Bailey was told.
...
Police seized a cache of around 900 firearms from Shepherd's house on September 13 last year, the court heard.

The haul included illegal weapons including Browning semi-automatic pistols, double-barrelled shotguns, Remington double-barrelled pistols and Wild West-style Colt single-shot guns.
...

Of course, the end was something of a surprise for many:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6223750.stm
A gun dealer specialising in antique firearms has been acquitted of selling weapons which the prosecution had claimed could have ended up in the hands of gangsters.
...
The Daily Star used the banner headline "The Arsenal of Murder" while the Mirror quoted a Scotland Yard source as saying: "We believe guns sold via this business may have been used in at least 14 gang-related shootings in London, including three murders."

Nine months later, the only man arrested on that day - Mick Shepherd - has walked free from the Old Bailey after being found not guilty of 13 firearms charges.

It emerged during the trial that the 900 guns found at Mr Shepherd's home were legally held and he had done nothing wrong.

Eccentrically dressed in country and western style suits and sporting an Elvis quiff, Mr Shepherd came across as a slightly comical figure.

But spending nine months in prison is no laughing matter, especially for a 56-year-old man with a sick and elderly mother.
...
But when it came to his trial there was no mention of any of Mr Shepherd's guns ever being used in murders or indeed any crimes.

Indeed several charges were dropped and in the end most of the allegations surrounded the sting operation.

Nine months in jail and then found not guilty :-(