Sovrun Cattle - The Sagebrush Saga of Cliven Bundy

Moderators: Prof, Judge Roy Bean

wanglepin
Admiral of the Quatloosian Seas
Admiral of the Quatloosian Seas
Posts: 1215
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2014 11:41 pm

Re: Sovrun Cattle - The Sagebrush Saga of Cliven Bundy

Post by wanglepin »

Would I be right in assuming this is the saga that leading Canadian freetard Menard is being interviewed about here
VICE: I've been researching the movement for a little bit now, and I have general idea about what it is, but I'll start off by asking: How would you describe the FOTL movement?
Robert Menard: I believe we're labelled as "anti-government," but I would say it's more accurate to say we're pro-good-government. We believe in equality and personal responsibility, and as such, we believe that no one has the right to govern their fellow man without the consent of the governing.

http://www.vice.com/en_ca/read/we-spoke ... n-standoff
rumpelstilzchen
Admiral of the Quatloosian Seas
Admiral of the Quatloosian Seas
Posts: 2249
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2010 8:00 pm
Location: Soho London

Re: Sovrun Cattle - The Sagebrush Saga of Cliven Bundy

Post by rumpelstilzchen »

we believe that no one has the right to govern their fellow man without the consent of the governing.
Shouldn't that be "governed"?
BHF wrote:
It shows your mentality to think someone would make the effort to post something on the internet that was untrue.
User avatar
The Observer
Further Moderator
Posts: 7559
Joined: Thu Feb 06, 2003 11:48 pm
Location: Virgin Islands Gunsmith

Re: Sovrun Cattle - The Sagebrush Saga of Cliven Bundy

Post by The Observer »

One more article with background and history on the feud between ranchers and BLM. This has been going on for quite a while, it didn't originate only with Cliven Bundy.
"I could be dead wrong on this" - Irwin Schiff

"Do you realize I may even be delusional with respect to my income tax beliefs? " - Irwin Schiff
User avatar
The Observer
Further Moderator
Posts: 7559
Joined: Thu Feb 06, 2003 11:48 pm
Location: Virgin Islands Gunsmith

Re: Sovrun Cattle - The Sagebrush Saga of Cliven Bundy

Post by The Observer »

rumpelstilzchen wrote:
we believe that no one has the right to govern their fellow man without the consent of the governing.
Shouldn't that be "governed"?
Don't bother, he's on a roll.
"I could be dead wrong on this" - Irwin Schiff

"Do you realize I may even be delusional with respect to my income tax beliefs? " - Irwin Schiff
rogfulton
Caveat Venditor
Posts: 600
Joined: Fri Aug 14, 2009 10:08 am
Location: No longer behind the satellite dish, second door along - in fact, not even in the same building.

Re: Sovrun Cattle - The Sagebrush Saga of Cliven Bundy

Post by rogfulton »

"No man is above the law and no man is below it; nor do we ask any man's permission when we require him to obey it. Obedience to the law is demanded as a right; not asked as a favor."
- President Theodore Roosevelt
User avatar
The Observer
Further Moderator
Posts: 7559
Joined: Thu Feb 06, 2003 11:48 pm
Location: Virgin Islands Gunsmith

Re: Sovrun Cattle - The Sagebrush Saga of Cliven Bundy

Post by The Observer »

And the FBI got spotted in town...when they didn't want to be.
"I could be dead wrong on this" - Irwin Schiff

"Do you realize I may even be delusional with respect to my income tax beliefs? " - Irwin Schiff
User avatar
The Observer
Further Moderator
Posts: 7559
Joined: Thu Feb 06, 2003 11:48 pm
Location: Virgin Islands Gunsmith

Re: Sovrun Cattle - The Sagebrush Saga of Cliven Bundy

Post by The Observer »

And the first arrest of an occupier happens, when he idiotically takes a Fish & Wildlife Vehicle out to buy groceries.
"I could be dead wrong on this" - Irwin Schiff

"Do you realize I may even be delusional with respect to my income tax beliefs? " - Irwin Schiff
User avatar
eric
Trivial Observer of Great War
Posts: 1327
Joined: Mon Aug 11, 2014 2:44 pm

Re: Sovrun Cattle - The Sagebrush Saga of Cliven Bundy

Post by eric »

The Observer wrote:And the first arrest of an occupier happens, when he idiotically takes a Fish & Wildlife Vehicle out to buy groceries.
Ken seems like a nice enough chap. Obviously a strong believer in the right to security of the person, he wears both braces and a belt in the image in this news story:
http://www.bendbulletin.com/localstate/ ... f-familiar
And he supports local industry - that's a Coors Beer promotional give-away hat he's wearing. :D
However, he has a small problem regarding perception of misuse of government vehicles by the local populace. Anywhere I have lived people always take note when a government vehicle is "off the reservation" so to speak and used to purchase personal supplies, even if the reason is perfectly valid such a weekly grocery run for a remote camp. "Borrowing" a couple of vehicles as he did is like driving around with a big sign saying "I'm an idiot, arrest me."
Famspear
Knight Templar of the Sacred Tax
Posts: 7668
Joined: Sat May 19, 2007 12:59 pm
Location: Texas

Re: Sovrun Cattle - The Sagebrush Saga of Cliven Bundy

Post by Famspear »

eric wrote:
The Observer wrote:And the first arrest of an occupier happens, when he idiotically takes a Fish & Wildlife Vehicle out to buy groceries.
Ken seems like a nice enough chap. Obviously a strong believer in the right to security of the person, he wears both braces and a belt in the image in this news story:
http://www.bendbulletin.com/localstate/ ... f-familiar
And he supports local industry - that's a Coors Beer promotional give-away hat he's wearing. :D
However, he has a small problem regarding perception of misuse of government vehicles by the local populace. Anywhere I have lived people always take note when a government vehicle is "off the reservation" so to speak and used to purchase personal supplies, even if the reason is perfectly valid such a weekly grocery run for a remote camp. "Borrowing" a couple of vehicles as he did is like driving around with a big sign saying "I'm an idiot, arrest me."
Mr. Kenneth Medenbach apparently has had prior run-ins with the law:
Kenneth Medenbach, who was arrested for unauthorized use of a government vehicle, is a chainsaw sculptor and longtime nemesis of the government with a history of previous entanglements with the courts over the occupation of federal lands....

[ . . .]

This is not Medenbach’s first tangle with the law. He is currently out on bail, according to court documents, awaiting trial for a seven-month residential occupation of government land between May and November 2015.

Medenbach was tried and convicted of the same crime in 1996. According to a forest service officer who testified at that trial, Medenbach was living in “an eight-by-ten-foot tent with a metal flue and wood-burning stove, a nearby campfire, and various cooking and sleeping equipment”.

According to a court memorandum, the magistrate said that Medenbach posed a risk to public safety and said that he had referenced Ruby Ridge and Waco, two sieges that ended in violence. At a detention hearing, the government said that Medenbach had tried to protect his campsite with “50 to 100 pounds of the explosive ammonium sulfate, a pellet gun, and what appeared to be a hand grenade with trip wires.”

Convicted and given a six-month suspended sentence, Medenbach appealed the case to the federal ninth circuit court, where he argued that federal ownership of unappropriated public lands was unconstitutional. He also filed a civil suit to demand that federal judges no longer swear an oath of affirmation under the constitution....
:roll:

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016 ... -medenbach
"My greatest fear is that the audience will beat me to the punch line." -- David Mamet
Arthur Rubin
Tupa-O-Quatloosia
Posts: 1756
Joined: Thu May 29, 2003 11:02 pm
Location: Brea, CA

Re: Sovrun Cattle - The Sagebrush Saga of Cliven Bundy

Post by Arthur Rubin »

eric wrote:And he supports local industry - that's a Coors Beer promotional give-away hat he's wearing. :D
I though Coors was a Colorado company.
Arthur Rubin, unemployed tax preparer and aerospace engineer
ImageJoin the Blue Ribbon Online Free Speech Campaign!

Butterflies are free. T-shirts are $19.95 $24.95 $29.95
Burnaby49
Quatloosian Ambassador to the CaliCanadians
Quatloosian Ambassador to the CaliCanadians
Posts: 8246
Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2011 2:45 am
Location: The Evergreen Playground

Re: Sovrun Cattle - The Sagebrush Saga of Cliven Bundy

Post by Burnaby49 »

Arthur Rubin wrote:
eric wrote:And he supports local industry - that's a Coors Beer promotional give-away hat he's wearing. :D
I though Coors was a Colorado company.
You're both wrong. Coors is a Canadian company. It's owned by Molsons. However it does own and operate the biggest single brewery in the world in Golden Colorado.
"Yes Burnaby49, I do in fact believe all process servers are peace officers. I've good reason to believe so." Robert Menard in his May 28, 2015 video "Process Servers".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeI-J2PhdGs
User avatar
wserra
Quatloosian Federal Witness
Quatloosian Federal Witness
Posts: 7624
Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2003 6:39 pm

Re: Sovrun Cattle - The Sagebrush Saga of Cliven Bundy

Post by wserra »

Whale piss.
"A wise man proportions belief to the evidence."
- David Hume
Burnaby49
Quatloosian Ambassador to the CaliCanadians
Quatloosian Ambassador to the CaliCanadians
Posts: 8246
Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2011 2:45 am
Location: The Evergreen Playground

Re: Sovrun Cattle - The Sagebrush Saga of Cliven Bundy

Post by Burnaby49 »

wserra wrote:Whale piss.
Watch what you are saying. There's no call to defame whales.

If it is whale piss it is a good match for the rest of Molsons products. Since I haven't had a Coors in decades I can't comment on it but I did unfortunately have a Molsons Canadian a while ago. I had no choice. I was in a real dump and that was literally all they had. I didn't finish it.

Apparently the general market feels the same way. Molson's had a large brewery right in Vancouver which, after 60 years of operation, just shut down. Couldn't compete with the craft beers I drink.

http://www.vancouversun.com/business/ic ... story.html
"Yes Burnaby49, I do in fact believe all process servers are peace officers. I've good reason to believe so." Robert Menard in his May 28, 2015 video "Process Servers".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeI-J2PhdGs
User avatar
noblepa
Admiral of the Quatloosian Seas
Admiral of the Quatloosian Seas
Posts: 731
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2014 8:20 pm

Re: Sovrun Cattle - The Sagebrush Saga of Cliven Bundy

Post by noblepa »

Burnaby49 wrote:
wserra wrote:Whale piss.
Watch what you are saying. There's no call to defame whales.

If it is whale piss it is a good match for the rest of Molsons products. Since I haven't had a Coors in decades I can't comment on it but I did unfortunately have a Molsons Canadian a while ago. I had no choice. I was in a real dump and that was literally all they had. I didn't finish it.

Apparently the general market feels the same way. Molson's had a large brewery right in Vancouver which, after 60 years of operation, just shut down. Couldn't compete with the craft beers I drink.

http://www.vancouversun.com/business/ic ... story.html
I don't drink a lot of beer, and I'm certainly no expert, like Burnaby49, but I agree about Coors beer.

Back in the seventies, Coors would not ship their beer west of the Mississippi river, claiming that they couldn't keep it fresh enough. Famously, then-Secretary of State Henry Kissinger used to have cases sent to him in Washington, using Air Force planes. I was dating my wife at the time. She and her sister flew to California to visit relatives, and I asked her to bring me back some Coors. I couldn't believe how awful it was. They claim its made with rocky mountain spring water. I claim it IS rocky mountain spring water.

Whale piss would definitely have more flavor than Coors beer.
Famspear
Knight Templar of the Sacred Tax
Posts: 7668
Joined: Sat May 19, 2007 12:59 pm
Location: Texas

Re: Sovrun Cattle - The Sagebrush Saga of Cliven Bundy

Post by Famspear »

noblepa wrote:...Back in the seventies, Coors would not ship their beer west of the Mississippi river, claiming that they couldn't keep it fresh enough....
Did you mean "would not ship their beer east of the Mississippi River....."??
"My greatest fear is that the audience will beat me to the punch line." -- David Mamet
User avatar
eric
Trivial Observer of Great War
Posts: 1327
Joined: Mon Aug 11, 2014 2:44 pm

Re: Sovrun Cattle - The Sagebrush Saga of Cliven Bundy

Post by eric »

Burnaby49 wrote:
wserra wrote:Whale piss.
Watch what you are saying. There's no call to defame whales.
If it is whale piss it is a good match for the rest of Molsons products. Since I haven't had a Coors in decades I can't comment on it but I did unfortunately have a Molsons Canadian a while ago. I had no choice. I was in a real dump and that was literally all they had. I didn't finish it.
Same here. Due to some rather unfortunate experiences in my impressionable youth where I was exposed to 3.2 beer, when I was forced to visit Colorado on a regular basis, I have refused to touch Coors since. Swilling back jugs of watered down beer was a definite shock to an impressionable eighteen year old who had just spent a summer in England and Germany.
User avatar
NYGman
Admiral of the Quatloosian Seas
Admiral of the Quatloosian Seas
Posts: 2272
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2012 6:01 pm
Location: New York, NY

Re: Sovrun Cattle - The Sagebrush Saga of Cliven Bundy

Post by NYGman »

Famspear wrote:
noblepa wrote:...Back in the seventies, Coors would not ship their beer west of the Mississippi river, claiming that they couldn't keep it fresh enough....
Did you mean "would not ship their beer east of the Mississippi River....."??
Sorry for going off topic again, but wanted to point out, the whole plot of the Classic Movie, Smokey and the Bandit, was based around this point. At that time (1977) Coors did not ship East of the Mississippi, and it was illegal to do so yourself. The movie, for those who have never seen it (Sorry for you) is about a bet to bring Coors Beer back to Georgia from Texarkana, Texas within 28 hours.

Wikipedia has the following exerpt: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smokey_and_the_Bandit
In 1977, Coors was unavailable for sale east of Oklahoma. A 1974 Time magazine article explains why Coors was so sought after that someone could be willing to pay the Bandit such a high price to transport it. Coors Banquet Beer enjoyed a brief renaissance as certain people sought it out for its lack of stabilizers and preservatives. The article explains that future Vice President Gerald Ford hid it in his luggage after a trip to Colorado in order to take it back to Washington. President Dwight D. Eisenhower had a steady supply airlifted to Washington by the Air Force. The article also mentions Frederick Amon, who smuggled it from Colorado to North Carolina and sold it for four times the retail price.[8] The lack of additives and preservatives meant that Coors had the potential for spoiling in a week if it was not kept cold throughout its transportation and storage at its destination. This explains the 28 hour deadline.[9]

Footnotes:
^8 Author Unknown. "BREWING: The Beer That Won the West" Time. 11 February 1974. http://www.time.com/time/magazine/artic ... 09,00.html

^9 Koerth-Baker, Maggie. "How the Bandit, Coors and a bunch of Makers changed the course of booze history" http://boingboing.net/2010/11/30/how-th ... coors.html . Boing Boing. Retrieved March 21, 2013.
The Hardest Thing in the World to Understand is Income Taxes -Albert Einstein

Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose - As sung by Janis Joplin (and others) Written by Kris Kristofferson and Fred Foster.
User avatar
The Observer
Further Moderator
Posts: 7559
Joined: Thu Feb 06, 2003 11:48 pm
Location: Virgin Islands Gunsmith

Re: Sovrun Cattle - The Sagebrush Saga of Cliven Bundy

Post by The Observer »

Washington Post
January 18, 2016

FEDERAL DIARY: Ore. Staff Warned of 'Paper Terrorism'
By Joe Davidson

As scandalous as it is that federal employees have been kept from their workplaces because armed intruders have taken over the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge in Oregon, now those staffers are being warned they might be victimized by "paper terrorism."

An email sent to agency leaders Friday warned that self-appointed judges associated with the right-wing sovereign citizen movement might "try to issue indictments, serve papers, or arrest local officials and/or federal employees." Those papers would have no legal authority, but would serve to bully workers.

Federal workers in the area also have been harassed while shopping, and their personal information at the refuge has been breached.

The email from the Pacific Northwest Region of the Forest Service in Portland said there are "concerns about the potential for 'paper terrorism,' where these individuals might attempt to file liens on property belonging to local officials or federal employees." The information was meant for dissemination to area Forest Service employees, those with the Bureau of Land Management and the Fish and Wildlife Service, which operates the refuge.

So far, there have been no reports of paper or violent terrorism against federal employees, but they have been targets of intimidation in Burns, Ore., where some employees live. Nearby federal offices, in addition to the refuge, have been closed as a precaution.

"As this issue has developed over the past week, our employees and their loved ones have reported a number of uncomfortable incidences in which unknown individuals from outside the Burns community have driven slowly past or idled in front of their homes, observing the residents and their activities," said Megan Nagel, a FWS spokeswoman. "In addition, self-identified militia members have tried to engage employees and family members in debates about their status as federal employees. Many of these confrontations are taking place as our employees are grocery shopping, running errands with their families and trying to lead their day-to-day lives. While not direct physical threats, these activities are clearly designed to intimidate."

Nagel also said the trespassers "have broken into locked files containing personal information, such as names and addresses, of employees, volunteers and businesses that have worked with the Refuge in the past 10 years."

A sovereign citizen representative could not be located. LaVoy Finicum, one of the Malheur interlopers, said they had no connection to the movement. "There are no sovereign citizens here that I know of at all," he said by telephone.

The intruders have been allowed to come and go as they please, while law enforcement has made no attempt to evict them, not even making them uncomfortable by cutting utilities.

A 2010 statement from the FBI defines the sovereign movement as a domestic terrorism threat. Sovereign citizens don't believe they must "answer to any government authority, including courts, taxing entities, motor vehicle departments, or law enforcement." Yet they "clog up the court system with frivolous lawsuits and liens against public officials to harass them," according to the FBI. The sovereign citizens also create their own make-believe courts that issue warrants against public officials.

Last year, the Department of Housing and Urban Development inspector general issued a warning about scams in which HUD-owned residential buildings are illegally occupied by sovereign citizens who deed the property to themselves. They claim a "right to arrest or sue employees of the 'illegitimate government,' " the warning said. "They are known for filing nuisance lawsuits or liens against individuals who try to stop their schemes, which have involved in lender, credit card, tax, and loan frauds."

Although the FBI makes a distinction between armed militias and what it calls the sovereign citizen extremist movement, the inspector general and the Southern Poverty Law Center, which tracks extremist groups, say Terry Nichols, a convicted co-conspirator in the 1995 bombing of Oklahoma City's Alfred P. Murrah Federal Office Building, was linked to the sovereign citizen movement.

Meanwhile, the two-week standoff continues, with law enforcement officers refusing to comment on calls for them to take action.

Saying "this hostile occupation is a clear act of sedition," National Federation of Federal Employees President William R. Dougan said federal authorities have "enabled lawlessness to go unchecked in the eyes of the nation and emboldened additional militia sympathizers to descend on the area. Enough is enough. The militants occupying the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge must be arrested."

One of the intruders, bold enough to drive a government truck into town, was arrested for stealing it. But the invaders remain untouched in a building on the refuge, cozy with the utilities the government has not turned off.

This makes no sense to Rep. Peter A. DeFazio (D-Ore.), who blasted authorities on the House floor last week.

"Well, the lights and the heat are on at the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge, illegally occupied by ultra-right-wing, anti-government extremists," he said. "But you have to wonder if the lights are on or anybody is home down there at the Justice Department. . . . It is time for the Justice Department to take some action. Wake up down there."
"I could be dead wrong on this" - Irwin Schiff

"Do you realize I may even be delusional with respect to my income tax beliefs? " - Irwin Schiff
User avatar
The Observer
Further Moderator
Posts: 7559
Joined: Thu Feb 06, 2003 11:48 pm
Location: Virgin Islands Gunsmith

Re: Sovrun Cattle - The Sagebrush Saga of Cliven Bundy

Post by The Observer »

Other updates:

The occupiers are now getting local tribes mad at their behavior and antics.

The occupier who got arrested for taking a government vehicle has now had children from his residence taken into protective custody by the government.

And the government's strategy of waiting out the occupiers seems to be paying off as Bundy and his comrades argue among themselves.

And the mockery of the freemen by the public continues...
"I could be dead wrong on this" - Irwin Schiff

"Do you realize I may even be delusional with respect to my income tax beliefs? " - Irwin Schiff
Hyrion
Admiral of the Quatloosian Seas
Admiral of the Quatloosian Seas
Posts: 660
Joined: Thu Nov 13, 2014 1:33 pm

Re: Sovrun Cattle - The Sagebrush Saga of Cliven Bundy

Post by Hyrion »

The Observer wrote:The occupiers are now getting local tribes mad ...
An OPCAs task is never complete till 100% of the population is upset with them (they are the last on their own list as an individual to make upset).