Peter of England: He’s still F RE?

[Zeke_the_Meek]

I'm not well versed in such laws, but I would have thought it'd come down to intent? And if that were the case, a strong counter-argument would be that the WeRe members are well aware that they are trying to get something for nothing. On balance, the overwhelming amount of evidence would dictate that you have to be very wilfully ignorant to believe that the whole thing is kosher, and ignorance is not a valid defence (even when it isn't wilful.)

Throw in the mix that in most court cases, it wouldn't be someone who wrote one dodgy cheque - it'd be the likes of Jimmy W who has received multiple black and white letters saying "we do not accept your monopoly money" yet still persists in trying to squirm their way out of paying back money they happily borrowed in the first place.

And even if you put all that aside, sov'runs do a pretty great job of hanging themselves in court despite the best will of anyone (such as an attorney or judge with an ounce of sympathy) trying to help them by pointing out they've gone to far and it's time to drop their silly crusade. In most cases they double down on their nonsense, and prove that they're utterly mental in the process.

[#six]

Ultimately I don't think it would work. A contact is between the purchaser and the seller. The 'bank' is not party to that contract. it would be up to the car company to take the purchaser to court and then the purchaser would have to take the 'bank' to court to recover their losses, if any.

[The Observer]

Scarily enough, you may have a valid point here. I hadn't thought of it from the angle you took, but yeah, I can see a good attorney making that point in court, now whether they could sell it to a jury, whole nother kettle of gefilte fish. I really do like the concept of WeReNotABank being held liable for not paying out on the customer's order, since PoE has sworn up and down they have a balance with him of however much he's peddling these days. I really do like that concept. I don't think it will ever come to pass, but fun to think about.

The bottom line is whether a judgment would result in anyone being able to collect anything from WeRe Bank, or Peter for that matter.

[notorial dissent]

Scarily enough, you may have a valid point here. I hadn't thought of it from the angle you took, but yeah, I can see a good attorney making that point in court, now whether they could sell it to a jury, whole nother kettle of gefilte fish. I really do like the concept of WeReNotABank being held liable for not paying out on the customer's order, since PoE has sworn up and down they have a balance with him of however much he's peddling these days. I really do like that concept. I don't think it will ever come to pass, but fun to think about.

The bottom line is whether a judgment would result in anyone being able to collect anything from WeRe Bank, or Peter for that matter.

Well now, there you go again, being all practical and stuffs, taking all the fun out of our bright shiny fluffy little scenario. See how you are.

On the other hand, I think it might be possible to make a case that the WeRe suckers clients really are that stupid and gullible that they really were relying on what PoE claimed and so were being stupid in good faith, and therefore it should come back on him.

Then again, I also agree that you can't get blood out of a turnip, or maybe in this case skunk cabbage, so there we are again. A couple of nice theories with no practical application.

[Hyrion]

The bottom line is whether a judgment would result in anyone being able to collect anything from WeRe Bank, or Peter for that matter.

That's not necessarily the only bottom line.

There is the potential, however unlikely, that following such a route could end up establishing sufficient facts to be able to fulfill all the elements involved in proving criminal fraud on the part of PoE.

It doesn't mean anyone finds PoE worth that effort - just a possible angle that someone could be looking at rather than the financial one.

[The Observer]

That's not necessarily the only bottom line.There is the potential, however unlikely, that following such a route could end up establishing sufficient facts to be able to fulfill all the elements involved in proving criminal fraud on the part of PoE.

Agreed. And I think that should have been the approach by the appropriate authorities in terms of a criminal prosecution. Unfortunately, there is also the issue of whether the money and time spent on a criminal investigation and prosecution is worth it, especially if Peter's efforts have only impacted an insignificant portion of the population. Sometimes it comes down to the authorities having to pick their enemies and battles.

[Pox]

That's not necessarily the only bottom line.There is the potential, however unlikely, that following such a route could end up establishing sufficient facts to be able to fulfill all the elements involved in proving criminal fraud on the part of PoE.

Agreed. And I think that should have been the approach by the appropriate authorities in terms of a criminal prosecution. Unfortunately, there is also the issue of whether the money and time spent on a criminal investigation and prosecution is worth it, especially if Peter's efforts have only impacted an insignificant portion of the population. Sometimes it comes down to the authorities having to pick their enemies and battles.

Ah - but what about the authorities claiming back their 'expenses' via the proceeds of crime thingy?

That old camper van must be worth a bob or two.

[Hyrion]

... there is also the issue of whether the money and time spent on a criminal investigation and prosecution is worth it ...

Yup - even the authorities have a limited budget: it's a simple part of reality. Very ironic this point when considered against the OPCA belief that the elite cabal has unlimited wealth and the cops/judges are part of that elite cabal

Back to the point: sometimes, when compared against the particular crooks counter-parts, the crook is so low on the possible radar that only a wealthy philanthropist could afford to take the effort to see about getting sufficient evidence together for a conviction - then hand that over to the authorities for an easy, cheap slam dunk.

Don't know if any philanthropist has ever considered using their excess wealth in quite that way though.

[The Observer]

Back to the point: sometimes, when compared against the particular crooks counter-parts, the crook is so low on the possible radar that only a wealthy philanthropist could afford to take the effort to see about getting sufficient evidence together for a conviction - then hand that over to the authorities for an easy, cheap slam dunk.Don't know if any philanthropist has ever considered using their excess wealth in quite that way though.

Two words: Bruce Wayne.

[mufc1959]

From PoE's Facebook page. It seems that, notwithstanding the role of the Financial Services Compensation Scheme in guaranteeing depositors' funds in UK banks, WeRe Bank is the only option now! Phew! Thank you, Peter, thank you from the bottom of my heart!

[Hyrion]

My paraphrasing:

Register with us, you only need to provide your name, address, birthdate and governmental registered personal id (ssn/sin for us in NA)

We will protect the funds in your actual live Bank Account - just provide us with proof of those funds (you know, by giving us your bank account information along with the bank balance) and we will guarantee those funds

Come and embrace us and embrace a certain future

Yup... the certain future that PoE will have sufficient information to easily empty the bank balance of the account of anyone fool enough to actually provide him those details.

[NYGman]

My paraphrasing:

Register with us, you only need to provide your name, address, birthdate and governmental registered personal id (ssn/sin for us in NA)

We will protect the funds in your actual live Bank Account - just provide us with proof of those funds (you know, by giving us your bank account information along with the bank balance) and we will guarantee those funds

Come and embrace us and embrace a certain future

Yup... the certain future that PoE will have sufficient information to easily empty the bank balance of the account of anyone fool enough to actually provide him those details.

So true, maybe this is a "Bridge too far" Provide your information and banking numbers, and what will stop Peter "Transferring" your balance to WeRe, where he will full credit your account in Re. Fun times ahead, me thinks.

[Arthur Rubin]

My paraphrasing:

Register with us, you only need to provide your name, address, birthdate and governmental registered personal id (ssn/sin for us in NA)

We will protect the funds in your actual live Bank Account - just provide us with proof of those funds (you know, by giving us your bank account information along with the bank balance) and we will guarantee those funds

Come and embrace us and embrace a certain future

Yup... the certain future that PoE will have sufficient information to easily empty the bank balance of the account of anyone fool enough to actually provide him those details.

Doesn't the Direct Debit Guarantee protect PoE's victims clients from situations like that.

[Hyrion]

Doesn't the Direct Debit Guarantee protect PoE's victims clients from situations like that.

They might think that, but it'd have to include the reality that PoE would actually have to use the financial communication system in play which he has clearly indicated he does not use - not to mention he'd have to have a bank account.....

I suspect he'll simply get some basic id just in case the particular bank teller asks him and go fill out a manual withdrawal slip. That would be the easiest and (not counting the video recording in the banks) least traceable method he could use to acquire the funds.

Then again.... given how willing his clients are.... he'll probably just ask them to withdraw the funds, slip the "deposit" into a plain brown envelop and mail it to him....... and they'll do it.

[Zeke_the_Meek]

Then again.... given how willing his clients are.... he'll probably just ask them to withdraw the funds, slip the "deposit" into a plain brown envelop and mail it to him....... and they'll do it.

Or perhaps he'll meet them in person to take that horrible, toxic paper off their hands. From the Facebook page:

Andy Eliot: just wundering if there is any meeting happening up north,ie carlisle newcastle areas

Peter of England: Yes there is a massive tour being planned beginning April with a 3 towns every week for 2 months. Please begin to inform anyone you know. This is after the promotional tour of Europe - Austria, Germany and Switzerland.

I'm sure we all remember the fun we had last year watching him try desperately to both publicise and not publicise his whereabouts at the same time. Given there are now a lot more people wanting to hand Peter his own arse on a plate with all the trimmings, this Grand April Tour will be a hoot!

... if it ever happens, of course.

[Hyrion]

There's a new article/entry PoE might want to be aware of: UNITED STATES OF AMERICA v. DAVID MOLESKI

... "it is not a defense that the intended victim was too smart to be taken in."
...
"The negligence of the victim in failing to discover a fraudulent scheme is not a defense to criminal conduct."
...
"[t]here may be attempts so feeble . . . that the attempter is entitled to be acquitted, as a harmless fool."
...
scheme, however, was not so feeble that it could not possibly have harmed anyone ...

PoE might want to consider those points if he ever decides to travel to any US Jurisdiction....

As we know.... his attempts are not so feeble they harmed no one let alone "could not harm anyone".... there's at least one lady in the US who tried to use one of his cheques who was then evicted from her dwellings. It was not only reasonably possible for her to fall victim: she did.

Note: I tried to make the link clickable, and then reference the url directly but there seems to be some issues with me posting so I left out the url completely. Getting a message in my browser indicating the host has not responded back.

Edited to add: nope, further testing just won't clear the issue - will have to go without url reference, it's the thread titled "But My Frivvin' Financial Files Failed To Fool The Feds!"

[mufc1959]

Note: I tried to make the link clickable, and then reference the url directly but there seems to be some issues with me posting so I left out the url completely. Getting a message in my browser indicating the host has not responded back.

Edited to add: nope, further testing just won't clear the issue - will have to go without url reference, it's the thread titled "But My Frivvin' Financial Files Failed To Fool The Feds!"

I've been trying to post something that includes a url for the last half hour, but keep getting "The Connection was reset" error message. Maybe there's something up with the back end of Quatloos.

Anyway, what I was trying to post was information from Peter's Facebook Page about his Grand Tour.

Peter Of England Yes there is a massive tour being planned beginning April with a 3 towns every week for 2 months. Please begin to inform anyone you know. This is after the promotional tour of Europe - Austria, Germany and Switzerland.

[mufc1959]

[YiamCross]

Doesn't the Direct Debit Guarantee protect PoE's victims clients from situations like that.

I guess if PoE were in a position to accept direct debits you might have some reason for thinking it would. Except that the DDG is only there to correct errors, it seems it doesn't cover things like contract disputes which makes me wonder if it would cover fraud. Since there's no way on earth that PoE can accept direct debits since he has no bank account and, as we all know, WeaRy bank is not a bank so the Direct Debit Guarantee is not going to be much use to anyone.

[Hyrion]

I've been trying to post something that includes a url for the last half hour, but keep getting "The Connection was reset" error message.

Same error when I made my attempts through Firefox, through Chrome the error was a far more generic "no response from host received". I also tried responding directly to the thread as well as to a particular post - consistent error.