Sovrun Cattle - The Sagebrush Saga of Cliven Bundy

[Pottapaug1938]

Are we approaching the time for a few choruses of "Brave Sir Robin ran away"

or an appropriate parody thereof from one of our resident songamiths

You asked for it....

Day after day, alone on the hill
The man with the box of dildos is keeping perfectly still
But nobody wants to know him
They can see that he's just a fool
And he yells and screams and rants, yeah

But the fool on the hill
Sees his fate going down
And the voices in his head
Hear the world laughing loud

Out Oregon way, head full of cloud
The voices in his head are talking perfectly loud
But nobody wants to hear him
Or the sounds that he likes to make
But he never pays attention

‘Cause the fool on the hill
Sees his fate going down
And the voices in his head
Hear the world laughing loud

And no one with brains will like him
They can see what he wants to do
‘Cause he always shows his feelings

And the fool on the hill
Sees his fate going down
And the voices in his head
Hear the world laughing loud

He never listens to them
He thinks that they're the fools
He knows that they don't like him

But the fool on the hill
Sees his fate going down
And the voices in his head
Hear the world laughing loud




Now, all I have to do is find a way to get the Boston chapter of the Illuminati to keep Paul McCartney off of my back....

[Gregg]

The original set of prisoners were now lined up in front of their fellow - and dead - comrades and given the same speech. Immediately many of them began talking their heads off, giving up intel, names, dates. After they finished, to their utter surprise the second group of guerrillas got up and walked away. They were actors hired by the Philippine government from the local movie industry to play the role of ardent, faithful guerrillas that could "die" on command.

Love it, although I am sure someone has some ethical problem with this

Someone besides me. I don't even have a problem with waterboarding, which has been done to me by the US Government.

OK, not much of a problem with it. When the Army does it, there is a Doctor in the room, you know that whatever they are doing to you, you ARE on the same side after all and its only an exercise. This is a frame of mind I wouldn't have had if the exact same thing was being done to me by, say, a bunch of Chinese interrogators who captured me after shooting me down over Tiananmen Square with Wagner playing loudly over a loudspeaker in an AH-1..... so while i can say it was hardly the end of the world for them to waterboard me, perhaps the situation might have changed that.

[Wake Up! Productions]

FBI Releases Oregon Shooting Video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6B1IfchTMkM

[Lambkin]

The original set of prisoners were now lined up in front of their fellow - and dead - comrades and given the same speech. Immediately many of them began talking their heads off, giving up intel, names, dates. After they finished, to their utter surprise the second group of guerrillas got up and walked away. They were actors hired by the Philippine government from the local movie industry to play the role of ardent, faithful guerrillas that could "die" on command.

Love it, although I am sure someone has some ethical problem with this

Getting suspects to incriminate themselves by lying to them is a standard police procedure everywhere. It doesn't even rise to the level of a dirty trick.

[The Observer]

The latest update is now stating that the wildlife refuge site has four militiamen refusing to come out instead of one. They want their demands met, including the most important one - that they not be arrested or charged with any crimes. Fat chance.

[Wake Up! Productions]

The latest update is now stating that the wildlife refuge site has four militiamen refusing to come out instead of one. They want their demands met, including the most important one - that they not be arrested or charged with any crimes. Fat chance.

If I remember correctly, shortly after the initial arrests, they did give them the opportunity to peacefully leave without arrest (barring any outstanding warrants). That time has long since come and gone.

[Jeffrey]

If I'm reading it right, the offer was everyone without a warrant could leave. One of the final 4 has a warrant and they won't leave unless they promise to let him go free.

[Jeffrey]

NWO will like this:

http://koin.com/2016/01/29/ahead-of-mil ... e-says-no/

The DA is arguing that Pete Santilli is a danger to the community and should remain in jail until the trial.

[The Observer]

Ammon Bundy explaining to the judge that he is a federalist. How does that square with his anti-federalist attitude? And since when did he become a federalist? Right after they slapped the cuffs on him?

[notorial dissent]

Ammon Bundy explaining to the judge that he is a federalist. How does that square with his anti-federalist attitude? And since when did he become a federalist? Right after they slapped the cuffs on him?

I seriously doubt he even knows what the terms means or refers to, along with a number of other ones he has used over the course of time. I think the whole family is real short on the book learning bits.

[Pottapaug1938]

Ammon Bundy explaining to the judge that he is a federalist. How does that square with his anti-federalist attitude? And since when did he become a federalist? Right after they slapped the cuffs on him?

If I recall correctly, back in the Nixon era, "federalism" was used as the label for a move to have various things handled by the states instead of by the Federal government. Perhaps it's this meaning which Bundy has in mind.

[The Observer]

Perhaps. Or it is just more sovrun silly definitions and word games that bear no reality to our modern day.

[Hanslune]

Ammon Bundy explaining to the judge that he is a federalist. How does that square with his anti-federalist attitude? And since when did he become a federalist? Right after they slapped the cuffs on him?

If I recall correctly, back in the Nixon era, "federalism" was used as the label for a move to have various things handled by the states instead of by the Federal government. Perhaps it's this meaning which Bundy has in mind.

He may be referring to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Federalist_Papers

Opposition to the Bill of Rights

The Federalist Papers (specifically Federalist No. 84) are notable for their opposition to what later became the United States Bill of Rights. The idea of adding a Bill of Rights to the Constitution was originally controversial because the Constitution, as written, did not specifically enumerate or protect the rights of the people, rather it listed the powers of the government and left all that remained to the states and the people. Alexander Hamilton, the author of Federalist No. 84, feared that such an enumeration, once written down explicitly, would later be interpreted as a list of the only rights that people had.

However, Hamilton's opposition to a Bill of Rights was far from universal. Robert Yates, writing under the pseudonym Brutus, articulated this view point in the so-called Anti-Federalist No. 84, asserting that a government unrestrained by such a bill could easily devolve into tyranny. References in The Federalist and in the ratification debates warn of demagogues of the variety who through divisive appeals would aim at tyranny. The Federalist begins and ends with this issue.[29] In the final paper Hamilton offers "a lesson of moderation to all sincere lovers of the Union, and ought to put them on their guard against hazarding anarchy, civil war, a perpetual alienation of the States from each other, and perhaps the military despotism of a successful demagogue".[30] The matter was further clarified by the Ninth Amendment.

[bmxninja357]

If I remember correctly, shortly after the initial arrests, they did give them the opportunity to peacefully leave without arrest (barring any outstanding warrants). That time has long since come and gone.

reminds me of something.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_lijLYuw-o

peace,
ninj

[eric]

Ammon Bundy explaining to the judge that he is a federalist. How does that square with his anti-federalist attitude? And since when did he become a federalist? Right after they slapped the cuffs on him?

If I recall correctly, back in the Nixon era, "federalism" was used as the label for a move to have various things handled by the states instead of by the Federal government. Perhaps it's this meaning which Bundy has in mind.

He may be referring to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Federalist_Papers

I suspect so... Back in the 1980's, along with The Turner Diaries, The Federalist Papers were being hawked mail order by the National Alliance in such rags as SOF. Mention of them still crops up as essential reading in various forums including some of the more unpleasant variety such as National Vanguard and Stormfront.

[The Observer]

Ok, that makes more sense to me....at least in the sense that it is one of the things that sovruns believe in that make no sense.

[Famspear]

The Federalist Papers are of course a series of papers written by some of the Founding Fathers. The problem with tax protesters and sovereign ignoramuses is that they don't use those materials properly.

The term "federal" itself has varying shades of meaning.

1. The term "federal" can mean "formed by a compact between political units that surrender their individual sovereignty to a central authority but retain limited residuary powers of government". Webster's New Collegiate Dictionary, p. 420, G.&C. Merriam Co. (8th ed. 1976). Mr. Bundy and others of his ilk probably would not like the words "surrender" and "limited" as they are used in this definition.

2. Or, the term "federal" can mean "of or constituting a form of government in which power is distributed between a central authority and a number of constituent territorial units". Id. This might be the sense in which Bundy was using the term -- to describe a political system where the retained power of the states (as opposed to the power of the national government) is at least arguably more emphasized. The word "distributed" seems to connote a relationship where power is diffuse.

3. The authors of The Federalist Papers may have used the term "federal" to show that they were "advocating or friendly to the principle of a federal [i.e., national] government with strong centralized powers". Id.

4. Or, the term "federal" can mean "of or relating to the central government of a federation as distinguished from the governments of the constituent units". Id.

Sense #4 is the one in which the term "federal" is most often used today in the United States of America. Today, when people say "the federal government", they usually mean only "the national government" -- and not any state government, such as, say, the government of Vermont or of Illinois. Today, we Americans are so used to using the term "federal" to mean "national" that we don't even think about its other meanings.

EDIT: The earlier reference to Nixon-era "federalism" probably is a use of the term "federalism" with the connotation more closely allied with sense # 2, above: a system where a substantial amount of power is diffused, or is distributed to the states.

[notorial dissent]

Ok, that makes more sense to me....at least in the sense that it is one of the things that sovruns believe in that make no sense.

I'm so VERY glad you qualified that, otherwise I was going to start to worry.

Actually, I'll go you one step further with the "tax protesters and sovereign ignoramuses is that they don't use those materials properly", they don't even come close to understanding them. They use really really big words that are not in their vocabularies, some of which meant something entirely different 200 years ago, and a lot of it had cultural meanings that they have no concept of modernly that were just part of everyday life in those days. So yeah, they misread and misuse it. Of course I think it helps if you are functionally if not fully illiterate as most of this crowd seems to be.

[bmxninja357]

Of course I think it helps if you are functionally if not fully willfully illiterate as most of this crowd seems to be.

fify,
ninj

[Hanslune]

Ok, that makes more sense to me....at least in the sense that it is one of the things that sovruns believe in that make no sense.

They use really really big words that are not in their vocabularies, some of which meant something entirely different 200 years ago, and a lot of it had cultural meanings that they have no concept of modernly that were just part of everyday life in those days.

Absolutely I read and write material that is based in the 1830's and it's sometimes hard to understand what is implied because the words then had different meanings - which were clear to everyone then but shadowy to us now.