Trans* OPCA gurus

[Tml69]

Not sure where to put this because it doesn't seem to fit anywhere.

But I know there are a few trans* people in the fmotl/opca movement.

Can I make a humble suggestion that if we want to mock and criticise people we keep there gender identity out of it if possible and call them by the correct pronouns?

[Pox]

Not sure where to put this because it doesn't seem to fit anywhere.

But I know there are a few trans* people in the fmotl/opca movement.

Can I make a humble suggestion that if we want to mock and criticise people we keep there gender identity out of it if possible and call them by the correct pronouns?

What?
What are you talking about/referring to ?

[jcolvin2]

Not sure where to put this because it doesn't seem to fit anywhere.

But I know there are a few trans* people in the fmotl/opca movement.

Can I make a humble suggestion that if we want to mock and criticise people we keep there gender identity out of it if possible and call them by the correct pronouns?

What?
What are you talking about/referring to ?

I think Tml69 may be referring to the following:
http://quatloos.com/Q-Forum/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=10840

[Hercule Parrot]

Not sure where to put this because it doesn't seem to fit anywhere.
But I know there are a few trans* people in the fmotl/opca movement.

Can I make a humble suggestion that if we want to mock and criticise people we keep there gender identity out of it if possible and call them by the correct pronouns?

What?
What are you talking about/referring to ?

You must've noticed that there are a number of transgendered people involved with this, eg Veronica Chapman and Kate of Gaia? Tml69 asks that we reserve mockery for their crazy beliefs about law and society, but not their personal gender identification. I think he's right.

[grixit]

My opinion on that-- you want to change your parts, hey, change your parts. But if you don't change your parts don't expect me to change your pronouns. That's *my* identity.

[Pox]

Not sure where to put this because it doesn't seem to fit anywhere.

But I know there are a few trans* people in the fmotl/opca movement.

Can I make a humble suggestion that if we want to mock and criticise people we keep there gender identity out of it if possible and call them by the correct pronouns?

What?
What are you talking about/referring to ?

I think Tml69 may be referring to the following:
http://quatloos.com/Q-Forum/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=10840

Oh thanks.
I have scanned the thread and have noticed the odd 'he/she' pronoun and don't find it offensive - who knows what stage of 'transgenderisation' an individual is at (and who cares? - it's certainly none of my business) and thus,what would be the correct pronoun?

In law, at what stage would a person become a member of the opposite sex?

There was something I half heard on the radio last year where a transgender person (born as male) was sent to a male prison whereas this person felt it should have been a female prison.
I didn't listen too closely but I think the gist was that there were no guidelines for such a situation.

Maybe one solution is that if you are transgender, don't put yourself in a position where you might receive a prison sentence (in the case above, I think the charge was assault, and it wasn't a first offence).

[Hercule Parrot]

I have scanned the thread and have noticed the odd 'he/she' pronoun and don't find it offensive - who knows what stage of 'transgenderisation' an individual is at (and who cares? - it's certainly none of my business) and thus,what would be the correct pronoun?

Without getting into a complete tangent, the modern view is that the correct pronoun is defined by the subject's own self-identification. If they present as male, female or something else, the polite thing is to address them accordingly. And if unsure, it isn't rude to simply ask what they prefer.

Beyond that, it all gets highly-complicated, political and sometimes silly. Non-binaries, genderfluids, etc. There's always some self-obsessed American student activist who wants their new self-identification as a male, lesbian unicorn to to be recognised by the faculty or else it's just like Hitler blah blah tantrums.

So returning to Tml69's point, if we're discussing a M-F trans person who obviously presents as female then we shouldn't use male pronouns. To do that intentionally would be hurtful and discriminatory, whether said to their face or online.

[Llwellyn]

Well, we can refer to he/she/it/they in whatever form we choose. Reality is, no matter how much someone chooses to change their looks, (from a pure scientific point of view) they can not change their genetic coding. Chromosomes determine our gender... Male = X/y : Female = Y/y.

Yes, we are 'complicated' creatures etc etc etc .. but, when you break things down to the simplest, it makes things easier. If someone.. like say, (EXAMPLE ONLY) Bruce Jenner were to commit a crime.. the DNA collected would be and would show MALE, even tho they have gone through 'transgenderization'. - I personally believe that Bruce Jenner is still a HE, and will always refer to them as such.

[Bones]

All I know is that both Kate and Veronica, pee standing up

[Pox]

Reality is, no matter how much someone chooses to change their looks, (from a pure scientific point of view) they can not change their genetic coding. Chromosomes determine our gender... Male = X/y : Female = Y/y
If someone.. like say, (EXAMPLE ONLY) Bruce Jenner were to commit a crime.. the DNA collected would be and would show MALE, even tho they have gone through 'transgenderization'. - I personally believe that Bruce Jenner is still a HE, and will always refer to them as such.

The scientist in me agrees with you although I would not like to offend someone by using the 'wrong' pronoun.

I don't believe the matter has been covered in Debretts Guide to Social Etiquette so I guess I'll just avoid putting myself in a situation where I have to make a choice.

[longdog]

Without getting into a complete tangent, the modern view is that the correct pronoun is defined by the subject's own self-identification. If they present as male, female or something else, the polite thing is to address them accordingly. And if unsure, it isn't rude to simply ask what they prefer.

Succinctly put and spot on the money.

We have plenty of sticks to beat these morons with... Their stupidy, ignorance, arrogance and batshit-lunacy are quite enough without making comments about their gender-identity which is totally irrelevant 99.99% of the time.

I have a few close transgender friends and would happily punch anybody who deliberately referred to them by their former / genetic gender with the intention of upsetting them. We Quatlosers are surely above that sort of bad manners... Moral high ground and all that guff.

[longdog]

Well, we can refer to he/she/it/they in whatever form we choose. Reality is, no matter how much someone chooses to change their looks, (from a pure scientific point of view) they can not change their genetic coding. Chromosomes determine our gender... Male = X/y : Female = Y/y.

No it doesn't.

A person's XX / XY genetic make-up (usually) determines their biological sex not their gender which is largely a social construct. Sex, gender and sexuality are separate things and you simply can't pigeon-hole people according to accident of birth. I know a post-op F2M gay transvestite which takes some getting your head around

Yes, we are 'complicated' creatures etc etc etc .. but, when you break things down to the simplest, it makes things easier. If someone.. like say, (EXAMPLE ONLY) Bruce Jenner were to commit a crime.. the DNA collected would be and would show MALE, even tho they have gone through 'transgenderization'. - I personally believe that Bruce Jenner is still a HE, and will always refer to them as such.

I'm afraid that doesn't really reflect very well on you. I don't really see why anybody would choose to refer to people by their former / birth gender any more than they would choose to call somebody who had legally changed their name by their former name. Is it any great difficulty to show even the most egregious idiot a bit of basic civility?

As far as I know forensic DNA doesn't ordinarily distinguish between male and female DNA by the way.

[rumpelstilzchen]

All I know is that both Kate and Veronica, pee standing up

In the middle of the night I pee sitting down. Saves a lot of mess.

[rumpelstilzchen]

We have plenty of sticks to beat these morons with... Their stupidy, ignorance, arrogance and batshit-lunacy are quite enough without making comments about their gender-identity which is totally irrelevant 99.99% of the time.

I agree. Making a comment about their gender identity can sometimes border on attacking the arguer and not the argument. We are all different and we should live and let live.

[#six]

I thought this site was better than ad hominem comments. Why are we even discussing this?

[Bones]

I thought this site was better than ad hominem comments. Why are we even discussing this?

I think it started off after Jimmy said he was off to Thailand to earn £1,000 per month providing he had an internet connection.

If anyone has been to Phuket, I think this has something to do with Simon's (not the white rabbit) Cabaret

http://www.phuket-simoncabaret.com/

But I could be wrong

[Pox]

I thought this site was better than ad hominem comments. Why are we even discussing this?

I don't see anything as an ad hominem attack (a bit of banter in some posts which I trust isn't intended to be an 'attack') but do agree that any further discussion should be taken elsewhere.

As to why we are discussing it, blame Tml69, who started it

[jonathan01n]

https://www.con-telegraph.ie/news/round ... ender-pers

I don't think the defence lawyer is freeman or sovcit. But she claims person named on the summons is not there anymore so the charges should be dropped.

[longdog]

It's a shame that story doesn't say when the person was charged with the offence. Apparently they changed their name and received a gender recognition certificate in 2016 so to my mind if the person was charged after that date in their former name and gender then the case shouldn't be allowed to proceed as they have indeed charged somebody who no longer exists. To allow the charges to be amended would make a mockery of the Gender Recognition Act 2015 as it would amount to the state saying "We officially recognise your gender in accordance with the law except when we arbitrarily decide we're not going to".

If the person was charged before their legal transition then obviously that's a different matter but I would definitely award ten out of ten for a novel defence.

[bmxninja357]

Not to be an a-hole but if there is an extrodinary ammount of mental health issues in the opca community and a above percentage per capita of trans gendered (and other pronouns not simply male/female) folks in said opca community, perhaps the mental illness and trans gender are related. Both believe things that are untrue, and that leads to the magical thinking.

I have plenty of trans, gay, bi, and several other pronoun folks as friends and acquaintances. I dont really care what someone is. I think we are all bent in our own special way. However i refer to each by the gender they were born with biologically. And none have any real problem with it.

Its just my opinion and hey, everyone loves a parade...

Peace,
Ninj