Kevin Sisk wants to arrest our Prime Minister!

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Burnaby49
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Kevin Sisk wants to arrest our Prime Minister!

Post by Burnaby49 »

Actually our ex-Prime Minister. Stephen Harper lost the top spot to Justin Trudeau last fall and I have as yet no information regarding whether or not Sisk approves of the new guy.

Sisk has not, until now, had his own discussion however he has been previously mentioned in this discussion;

viewtopic.php?f=48&t=10313&

Sufficient to say that Sisk is a marijuana advocate, a BIG marijuana advocate, and he decided to take direct action against the federal government's refusal to legalize marijuana by trying to get our then Prime Minister Harper charged with a criminal act by violating S. 176 of the Criminal Code. He did this by ordering the Edmonton Police Department to hustle over to Ottawa and arrest the Prime Minister. Section 176 of the Criminal Code reads;
Obstructing or violence to or arrest of officiating clergyman

176 (1) Every one who

(a) by threats or force, unlawfully obstructs or prevents or endeavours to obstruct or prevent a clergyman or minister from celebrating divine service or performing any other function in connection with his calling, or

(b) knowing that a clergyman or minister is about to perform, is on his way to perform or is returning from the performance of any of the duties or functions mentioned in paragraph (a)

(i) assaults or offers any violence to him, or
(ii) arrests him on a civil process, or under the pretence of executing a civil process,

is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding two years.

Disturbing religious worship or certain meetings

(2) Every one who wilfully disturbs or interrupts an assemblage of persons met for religious worship or for a moral, social or benevolent purpose is guilty of an offence punishable on summary conviction.

Idem

(3) Every one who, at or near a meeting referred to in subsection (2), wilfully does anything that disturbs the order or solemnity of the meeting is guilty of an offence punishable on summary conviction.
Section 176 is in a somewhat unsavory section of the code being bracketed with things like this;
Nudity

174 (1) Every one who, without lawful excuse,

(a) is nude in a public place, or
(b) is nude and exposed to public view while on private property, whether or not the property is his own,

is guilty of an offence punishable on summary conviction.

Nude

(2) For the purposes of this section, a person is nude who is so clad as to offend against public decency or order.
Causing disturbance, indecent exhibition, loitering, etc

175 (1) Every one who

(a) not being in a dwelling-house, causes a disturbance in or near a public place,

(i) by fighting, screaming, shouting, swearing, singing or using insulting or obscene language,
(ii) by being drunk, or
(iii) by impeding or molesting other persons,

(b) openly exposes or exhibits an indecent exhibition in a public place,

(c) loiters in a public place and in any way obstructs persons who are in that place, or

(d) disturbs the peace and quiet of the occupants of a dwelling-house by discharging firearms or by other disorderly conduct in a public place or who, not being an occupant of a dwelling-house comprised in a particular building or structure, disturbs the peace and quiet of the occupants of a dwelling-house comprised in the building or structure by discharging firearms or by other disorderly conduct in any part of a building or structure to which, at the time of such conduct, the occupants of two or more dwelling-houses comprised in the building or structure have access as of right or by invitation, express or implied,

is guilty of an offence punishable on summary conviction.
Trespassing at night

177 Every one who, without lawful excuse, the proof of which lies on him, loiters or prowls at night on the property of another person near a dwelling-house situated on that property is guilty of an offence punishable on summary conviction.
Taken together these various sections gave me a vision of a naked, drunken Prime Minister Harper rampaging through a midnight mass shrieking obscenities while blasting away with a revolver in each hand. Sadly the basis of Sisk's complaint is somewhat more prosaic. The police officers reviewing his demands told him to get lost so he complained the Police Commission demanding that the police officers also be charged;
Summary: The complainant alleged that the police officers misconducted themselves by failing to arrest the Prime Minister and the federal Minister of Health in connection with what the complainant suggests is an unlawful interference with the use of cannabis in religious rituals. The Commission dismissed the complaint as frivolous or vexatious and the complainant sought a review by the Board. The Commission’s determination that the complaint against the two officers is frivolous and vexatious is affirmed.
Sisk v Edmonton (Police Commission), 2015 ABLERB 16
http://canlii.ca/t/gl659

Sisk claims to be head of a druid church that uses weed as part of it's rites. So the illegality of marijuana is an attack on the right to practice his religion. He could have gone the normal route of a Charter challenge under Section 2 of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms which reads;
2. Everyone has the following fundamental freedoms:
(a) freedom of conscience and religion;
(b) freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression, including freedom of the press and other media of communication;
(c) freedom of peaceful assembly; and
(d) freedom of association.
But that's already failed in court;

R. v. Kharaghani, 2011 ONSC 3404
http://canlii.ca/t/flqf8

So he got inventive and tried the Criminal Code route. When that didn't work he tried to charge the officers who rejected him under both s. 176 and s. 122 of the Criminal Code. Probably making sure he cast a wide enough net to snag them with something.
[1] Kevin Sisk complained under the Police Act (“Act”) about Cst. D. Corcoran and Cst. S. Cech, police officers with the Edmonton Police Service (“EPS”). They had been assigned to deal with the complainant’s allegations against Prime Minister Harper and others, including the federal Minister of Health.[1] They had declined to charge anyone under s 176 of the Criminal Code, as the complainant wanted them to do. The complaint was made through the Public Complaints Director of the Edmonton Police Commission (“Commission”), who forwarded it, as the Act provides, to the Chief.

[2] This is what the complainant alleged in his May 23, 2014 email to the Public Complaints Director:
Constables Cech and Corcoran were assigned to EPS file no. 14-034431.[2]

Constable Cech conducted the interview. As I have shared with you in emails, Our Queen made an oath to Her Subjects on the King James Version of the bible. Both officers have sworn an oath of allegiance to Our Queen. I invoked 176 of the Criminal Code of Canada and let the officer know that the Prime Minister et al are in breach of their oath of allegiance to Our Queen and Her Oath to Her Subjects and insisted they charge the PM et al as per 14-034431.

Further I suggested if they did not charge the PM et al, I would see about getting them charged under 176 and 122.[3]

[3] The complainant also appears to be of the view that, because he has “invoked” s 176 of the Criminal Code, any action under the law that interferes with use of cannabis in religious practices is an offence.[4] He therefore appears to suggest that the officers ought to have arrested the Prime Minister and charged him with obstruction of a clergyman or minister contrary to s 176 (and, it appears, breach of an oath of office).

[4] In communications to the Commission, the complainant said that, if the Commission were to charge the Prime Minister under s 176, he would “see no need to charge the officers” under the same provision as well, “as for oath breakers, they were real gentlemen, save for the fact of their oath breaking ways and interference with my Ministry, they acted honourably.”[5]
Section 122 reads;
Breach of trust by public officer
122 Every official who, in connection with the duties of his office, commits fraud or a breach of trust is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding five years, whether or not the fraud or breach of trust would be an offence if it were committed in relation to a private person.
I suppose it's a plus that Sisk isn't claiming that they ran amuck in a church naked and discharging firearms. In any case that approach didn't work either.
[5] On February 23, 2015, the Chief recommended to the Commission that the complaint be dismissed, under s 43(8) of the Act, as “frivolous, vexatious or made in bad faith”. After reviewing the recommendation, the Commission reached this conclusion:

The Commission finds that the complaint made by Kevin Sisk against Constables Corcoran and Cech is clearly frivolous. Edmonton Police Service officers do not have the jurisdiction to arrest the Prime Minister for legislation that has been introduced and passed by Parliament. It is plain and obvious that the complaint cannot succeed. The complaint is clearly devoid of substance, lacking in factual basis, and lacking proper seriousness. There is no air of reality to the complaint. Finally, there are other means by which Mr. Sisk can choose to challenge the constitutional validity of legislation.[6]
So to our case which was a review of the review. The Police Commission decision was reviewed by the Alberta Law Enforcement Review Board. The fix was in however;
Standard of review

[10] Given the material before us, we need not decide what standard of review the Legislature intended the Board to apply in reviewing a police commission’s decision to dismiss a complaint as frivolous, vexatious or made in bad faith. We have reviewed the Commission’s decision from the perspectives of both reasonableness and correctness, which lie at either end of the spectrum. Whichever standard is applied, the outcome is the same.

Frivolous, vexatious or made in bad faith

[11] In its decision, the Commission said that it has in the past adopted this definition of “frivolous”:

When a complaint is either clearly devoid of substance, lacking in factual basis, absent of an air of reality, lacking in proper seriousness, or without importance.[7]

[12] The Commission also referred to past Board decisions interpreting the phrase “frivolous, vexatious or made in in bad faith”. As the Board has said before, an appeal will be “frivolous” where it is unreal or hopeless, plainly bound to fail or lacks an air of reality.[8]

[13] The Commission noted, first, that police officers “do not have the jurisdiction to arrest the Prime Minister for legislation that has been introduced and passed by Parliament.”[9] This is plainly true: a prime minister has not done anything unlawful merely because Parliament has passed a Bill tabled by the administration of which he or she is the first minister.

[14] The complainant submitted to the Board that criminal law takes precedence over civil law, apparently believing that the Commission erred in relying on the Act to dismiss his complaint.[10] He has relied on s 176 of the Criminal Code, which he appears to suggest protects a constitutionally-protected right to use cannabis, an illegal drug, for religious practices. Section 176 of the Criminal Code is not relevant to our review of the Commission’s decision. Nor is the complainant’s apparent belief that his religious liberty under the Charter of Rights and Freedoms is being violated. His complaint was made under the Act. That is the law that governs his complaint. It is the only source of legal authority for the Commission, and the Board, in this case.

[15] We acknowledge the complainant’s good faith—indeed fervour—in his beliefs about s 176. We also acknowledge his sincerity in defending what he considers to be his religious freedom. This does not, however, mean that the complainant has the right to invoke s 176 and seek to have public officials charged with criminal offences in defence of his beliefs and practices. Section 176 is not a shield or talisman that exempts the complainant from valid criminal or civil legislation.

[16] It is helpful to note, in passing, that s 176 does not have the meaning that the complainant believes. It is only triggered where someone “by threats or force, unlawfully obstructs or prevents” a clergyman or minister from “celebrating divine service or performing any other function in connection with his calling”.[11] Section 176 also makes it an offence for anyone, “knowing that a clergyman or minister is about to perform” any of her or his “duties or functions”, “to assault or offer any violence to him” or arrest him or her “on a civil process”.[12] Contrary to what the complainant appears to believe, neither the passage of a law nor its enforcement qualify as behaviour that s 176 proscribes.[13]

[17] Viewed through the lenses of reasonableness and of correctness, it is abundantly clear that the Commission appropriately concluded that the complaint has no air of reality, is plainly and obviously bound to fail, and thus is frivolous within the meaning of s 43(8).

CONCLUSION

[18] Under s 20(1.1) of the Act, the Commission’s decision to dismiss the complaint against Cst. Corcoran and Cst. Cech is affirmed.
I do see a slight flaw in the logic of Sisk's overall plan. While the Prime Minister heads the government he can't just unilaterally delare laws. Legislating the legality of marijuana would require a majority vote in Parliament and the Prime Minister has only one vote there. Prior to our last election there were 308 seats in Parliament, none of whom voted to legalize marijuana. So the correct response by the police should have been to arrest all of them. Perhaps this is the real reason the Edmonton police refused to cooperate in getting justice done. Too much damn work. They would have had to charter a 777 to bring them all back to Edmonton.
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Re: Kevin Sisk wants to arrest our Prime Minister!

Post by Wake Up! Productions »

I do see a slight flaw in the logic of Sisk's overall plan. While the Prime Minister heads the government he can't just unilaterally delare laws.
This was one of the main things that swayed me away from the freeman movement. I realised that the Canadian system is actually far better than the American system. After all, to my knowledge, there is no such thing in Canada as "executive orders". Everything is generally on the up and up, and must pass through parliament.

The only gripe I had with Harper was the fact the he over ruled the Mayor of Toronto as where to hold the 2010 G20 summit. The Mayor wanted it held on the federally held CNE grounds (a few kms from downtown), but Harper over ruled him, and held the G20 in the heart of the financial district. The CNE grounds even had an helicopter landing pad for Obama's "Marine Force One", but still Harper said "no", and had the helicopter land on the lawn of the C.N. Tower.
DEAN CLIFFORD IS OUT OF PRISON !!! :shock:
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Re: Kevin Sisk wants to arrest our Prime Minister!

Post by noblepa »

Wake Up! Productions wrote:
I do see a slight flaw in the logic of Sisk's overall plan. While the Prime Minister heads the government he can't just unilaterally delare laws.
This was one of the main things that swayed me away from the freeman movement. I realised that the Canadian system is actually far better than the American system. After all, to my knowledge, there is no such thing in Canada as "executive orders". Everything is generally on the up and up, and must pass through parliament.

The only gripe I had with Harper was the fact the he over ruled the Mayor of Toronto as where to hold the 2010 G20 summit. The Mayor wanted it held on the federally held CNE grounds (a few kms from downtown), but Harper over ruled him, and held the G20 in the heart of the financial district. The CNE grounds even had an helicopter landing pad for Obama's "Marine Force One", but still Harper said "no", and had the helicopter land on the lawn of the C.N. Tower.
I'm not an expert on the workings of the Canadian federal government, but I strongly suspect that there are, in fact, the equivalent of Executive Orders. Parliament can't be expected to be involved in every minute detail of the day to day operation of the government. That is the job of the Prime Minister and his cabinet. When decisions must be made, as to choices of policy, within the confines of the relevent statutes, I'm sure that the PM issues written instructions to his cabinet members and agency heads. That's all an EO is.

The US President can not issue an EO that contravenes a statute. Nor can he declare that a particular action is a crime, when no statute makes it one. In the case of the famous case currently making its way through our courts, about Obama's immigration EO's, IMHO, he was merely defining the criteria which the immigration authorities and the Justice department were to use when deciding which illegal immigrants to prosecute. There isn't enough money in the budget to investigate and prosecute them all, so the agency must excercise "prosecutorial discretion". That means, they must decide who to prosecute and who not to. It happens all the time and has always happened. I'm sure it happens in Canada, as well.
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Re: Kevin Sisk wants to arrest our Prime Minister!

Post by Burnaby49 »

The day to day running of the government is done by the various departments.
In Canada, five of the ten provincial governments use the term "ministry" to describe their departments (namely Ontario, Quebec, Saskatchewan, British Columbia, and Alberta) but the other five, as well as the federal government, use the terms "department" or "agency". Despite the difference in nomenclature, both the provincial and federal governments use the term "minister" to describe the head of a ministry or department. The specific tasks assigned to a minister is referred to as his or her "portfolio.
Which are in turn subservient to the cabinet.
Ministries are usually an immediate subdivision of the Cabinet (i.e. the executive branch of the government), and subordinate to its chief executive who is either called prime minister, chief minister, president, minister-president or (federal) chancellor.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ministry_ ... nt)#Canada

The Cabinet runs the overall operations of government;
As advisors to the sovereign, the Cabinet has significant power in the Canadian system and, as the governing party usually holds a majority of seats in the legislature, almost all bills proposed by the Cabinet are enacted. Combined with a comparatively small proportion of bills originating with individual Members of Parliament, this leads to Cabinet having almost total control over the legislative agenda of the House of Commons. Further, members of various executive agencies, heads of Crown corporations, and other officials are appointed by the Crown-in-Council, though some of these may be made only by the Governor General-in-Council specifically. Public inquiries and Royal Commissions are also called through a Royal Warrant issued by the Queen or Governor-in-Council. All Cabinet meetings are held behind closed doors and the minutes are kept confidential for thirty years, Cabinet members being forbidden from discussing what transpires. Decisions made must be unanimous, though this often occurs at the prime minister's direction, and once a decision has been reached, all Cabinet members must publicly support it. If any of these rules are violated, the offending minister is usually removed by the prime minister and, if the disagreement within the Cabinet is strong, a minister may resign, as did John Turner in 1975, over the subject of wage and price controls, and Michael Chong in 2006, over a parliamentary motion recognising "the Québécois" as a nation within Canada.


However, in reality, the Prime Minister runs the show;
However, the Cabinet's collective influence has been seen to be eclipsed by that of the prime minister alone. Former prime minister Pierre Trudeau is credited with consolidating power in the Office of the Prime Minister (PMO)[28] and, at the end of the 20th century and into the 21st, analysts—such as Jeffrey Simpson, Donald Savoie, and John Gomery—argued that both parliament and the Cabinet had become eclipsed by prime ministerial power.[29] Savoie quoted an anonymous minister from the Liberal Party as saying Cabinet had become "a kind of focus group for the Prime Minister,"[30][31] while Simpson called cabinet a "mini-sounding board".[n 2][33] Coyne wrote in 2015: "Cabinet does not matter... It does not govern: that is the job of the prime minister, and of the group of political staff he has around him, and of the bureaucracy beyond them."[34] John Robson criticised the use of the prime minister's name to identify the Cabinet, calling it a "bad habit" that "endorses while concealing the swollen pretension of the executive branch."[35]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cabinet_o ... sibilities

I worked for what was originally the Department of National Revenue run by the Minister of National Revenue who was in turn a member of Cabinet. We enforced legislation, the Income Tax Act, but we were also subject to government policy which, in theory at least, went right back to the Cabinet. So while cabinet cannot make laws itself (it must propose government bills to parliament for a vote) it can set the policies of how the departments operate. What projects public works undertakes, where the Canada Revenue Agency focuses their efforts, what weapons the Department of Defense procures and what missions it undertakes, these are all policies rather than law. We've recently had this big controversy about pulling six CF-18s out of combat in Iraq. That decision was not law but policy and was not decided by parliament. It was a campaign promise of our new Prime Minister Trudeau and was done through Cabinet on his orders.

My comment about Sisk and marijuana was based on this structure. I assume from what little information is in the case that Sisk was demanding that Prime Minister Harper be arrested because the federal government, by making possession and use of marijuana illegal, was infringing on his religious rights. Since Harper was head of government he was the person responsible for this. However, logically, the parties at fault, if fault can be ascribed to federal legislation, would have been those members of parliament who, way back years ago, voted on the initial government bill that made marijuana a banned substance. However Sisk seems to be saying that the parties responsible are those individuals who could change the legal status of marijuana now. That would have to be all of the existing members of parliament since each gets an equal vote. Sisk is right to the extent that Harper could have proposed a bill to parliament legalizing marijuana but did not do so. However, at least in theory, any member of parliament can propose a bill (called a Private Member's Bill) so responsibility for the continuing illegality of marijuana would have to be shared amongst all of them.

A very significant power that the Prime Minister and all of the other federal political party leaders have is the veto power to deny individuals the right to run for their party in an election. So if a member of parliament votes against his party's position on an issue of importance to the party leader he might well find himself not being approved as a candidate in the next election. This tends to result in strong party discipline.

In any case if Sisk had a valid argument about the violation of his religious rights it would have to be argued through section 2 of the Charter. Section 176 of the Criminal Code is totally inappropriate and would not be accepted by any level of Canadian court.
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Re: Kevin Sisk wants to arrest our Prime Minister!

Post by eric »

Burnaby49 wrote:The day to day running of the government is done by the various departments.
... respectfully requests that this discussion be very carefully monitored since it is veering towards a discussion of the merits of one form of democracy than another... That being said, I agree with your post and that the knowledge of the actual "workings" of how Canada and its provinces conduct the day to day business of governing is somewhat lacking.
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Re: Kevin Sisk wants to arrest our Prime Minister!

Post by Burnaby49 »

I'm not commenting on the merits of different types of government. That's a fool's errand since both the American and Canadian systems have their strengths and weaknesses and it's impossible to say which is "better". They are just different. Because of the differences I was explaining, as I said in the posting, how ours actually operates at the federal level to try to put Sisk's actions in context.

If the comment in my posting;
The day to day running of the government is done by the various departments.
is actually my boasting about the merits of our system compared to the American system please point it out to me because I'm baffled.
"Yes Burnaby49, I do in fact believe all process servers are peace officers. I've good reason to believe so." Robert Menard in his May 28, 2015 video "Process Servers".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeI-J2PhdGs