Random Freemanesque Babblings from idiots unable to sustain their own thread

[AndyPandy]

It's equivalent to the Municipal Property Tax, but it's the occupier who's liable. If you refuse to pay you can face imprisonment.

Other action, if you miss two monthly direct debt payments that facility is withdrawn and you have to pay in full. They can make you bankrupt (it's what they used to bankrupt jimmyw) or place a charge on your home.

fail to pay it at your peril !!

[Burnaby49]

A lot harsher than our municipal tax enforcement. They'll get the money eventually, the real estate the property tax is assessed on isn't going anywhere, but they are willing to allow a lot of time, warnings, and second-third-fourth chances getting there.

[NYGman]

Here is someone who, unless his wife ignores his stance, will make sure that his wife will lose her/their home.

It would appear that he doesn't agree with council tax and perhaps will be telling her not to pay the thieving bar stewards. He says that he is 'ready for a fight'.

I hope that she tells him to take his views elsewhere and thus save herself from bankruptcy - if she has any sense IMO, she will tell him to take his bags in the same direction as his views -

http://www.getoutofdebtfree.org/forum/v ... 8&start=10

And we have yet another example of where getoutofdeptfree has helped someone increase their debt, from 11k to 14k. Way to go

At least on the plus, it looks as he is actually taking good advice, is this a first for GOOFY??
http://www.getoutofdebtfree.org/forum/v ... 10#p446638

Re: Been Served With a Statutory demand For C/TAX
Post by jason123 » Mon Feb 29, 2016 10:00 pm

Big Thanks A-Banker and also to Tiggy For your advice, Think i will just have to pay it and try and recuperate it back in my own time without being held over a Barrel!!

How long until someone talks him out of it??

[Chaos]

How long until someone talks him out of it??

all that's needed is a WeRenotabank check post

[grixit]

Well Jimmy's now waded into the Flat Earth thread in his usual moronic style with the claim

i just wonder why nasa has never taken a picture of the earth from space.... maybe they are hiding something else?

Which is of course another claim easily debunked by going to Nasa's website and looking at the gallery of all the photo's of Earth they have http://www.nasa.gov/topics/earth/images/index.html. These show our planet in it's oblate spheroid glory, sometimes with bits of other space craft in the shot.

And since there is now a really powerful camera parked in one of the Lagrange points, those pictures now include the moon going in front of and behind the Earth.

[notorial dissent]

Facts just get in the way of a good delusion.

[hucknallred]

A question? What exactly is council tax?

If we go back about 30 years in the UK we had what were called Rates
In 1990 these were replaced by the Community Charge aka Poll Tax .
I've always voted Conservative & was a fan of Maggie Thatcher, but she got this one wrong & it ultimately led to her downfall when Michael Heseltine challenged her, although most Labour councils helped by setting the charge at around £500 per person. It would be interesting to see a list of charges from the time along with who was running the council.

With Maggie gone, Council tax eventually came in, but before it did were were all given a £140 discount on Poll Tax in exchange for VAT going up to 17.5%. In some Tory council areas the Poll tax was less than £140 so it became free.

So now we have Council Tax which is based on a drive by valuation of the property, essentially it's Rates with a fancy name. However the memory of Poll Tax lingers on & I think generations of these people still treat it as Poll Tax & refuse to pay.

[Forsyth]

A lot harsher than our municipal tax enforcement. They'll get the money eventually, the real estate the property tax is assessed on isn't going anywhere, but they are willing to allow a lot of time, warnings, and second-third-fourth chances getting there.

Yes, Council Tax is probably one thing you don't want to get behind on. What usually happens is that when someone starts to have money problems the council tax is one of the first things that drops (mortgage/rent and power being higher on the list). Council tax is usually paid monthly, but following a missed payment you only get one reminder before they withdraw the right to pay by instalments making the rest of the year's payments due (they no longer have to wait for two monthly instalments to be overdue). Then they go to court pretty much immediately (the process for which has often been streamlined to a legally questionable extent) and follow this by sending bailiffs in. The costs of which quickly ramps the debt up to a potentially unpayable level leading to the all too common spiral of debt.

An enduring myth is that it's illegal to pay Council Tax. The reasoning appears to be that the government uses tax to pay for wars, wars are illegal, so it's illegal to pay tax. This argument is mainly used in respect of Council Tax - the one tax that's only used for local purposes. Sometimes it's claimed that the council are, in effect, waging war on the local population, or that if the council ran out of money they'd be bailed out by the government which would prevent them from funding wars. All these arguments and more have been tried repeatedly in court (thanks to the willingness of councils to pursue the debt this way) and have always failed. None of which stops the gurus encouraging their eager followers down the path of self-destruction, most of who believe that they can return to where they started by paying what they originally owed without realising how quickly the cost will have grown.

It should be noted that Council Tax is one of the few taxes that most people in the UK will pay directly - Vehicle Excise Duty (car tax) being the other main one. Most people will have no involvement in paying Income Tax or National Insurance (paid by the employer on their behalf) or VAT (sales tax, paid by the retailer) and so the opportunities for using tax as a point of protest are limited.

As a piece of history, one of the big mistakes the government made in moving from rates to Community Charge was that, for the first time, students had to pay (though only 20% of the normal amount) leading to them playing a significant part in the ensuing protests. The Council Tax is notable for not applying to students, though it does apply (at varying rates) to the unemployed leading to the dubious practice of paying people benefits so that they can pay tax. The unemployed are, however, seen as being less likely to take to the streets in protest than students.

[longdog]

Other action, if you miss two monthly direct debt payments that facility is withdrawn and you have to pay in full.

This for Burnaby's benefit and enlightenment

It's true that if you miss two monthly payments (They don't have to be direct debit.. I don't do direct debits) then you lose the right to pay by instalments but that's more of an 'in theory' than an 'in practice'.

What actually happens is the council can then get a liability order from a magistrate which adds another £70 in legal fees to the bill and gives them more tools to enforce payment including bailiffs and ultimately, if you are a total dick and refuse to pay, bankruptcy and prison... See Roger Hayes as an example.

In reality councils will work with people who are having difficulty paying the tax but are addressing the issue and cooperating in good faith... Including allowing people to pay off arrears over a period of time. People who f**k about, demand to see the credit agreement with wet ink signature, try to employ freeman woo and wilfully refuse to pay are in for a whole world of hurt. The councils and the courts recognise the difference between won't pay and can't pay. The former is an offence, the latter isn't.

There are also 25% single occupier discounts, 100% relief for full time students and council-tax benefits for those with a low income.

[Forsyth]

In reality councils will work with people who are having difficulty paying the tax but are addressing the issue and cooperating in good faith...

This is true and I have, perhaps, over emphasized the negative side in my comments above. Council staff can be quite random in their approach, however, and individual experiences seem to vary quite significantly.

[Burnaby49]

Other action, if you miss two monthly direct debt payments that facility is withdrawn and you have to pay in full.

This for Burnaby's benefit and enlightenment

It's true that if you miss two monthly payments (They don't have to be direct debit.. I don't do direct debits) then you lose the right to pay by instalments but that's more of an 'in theory' than an 'in practice'.

What actually happens is the council can then get a liability order from a magistrate which adds another £70 in legal fees to the bill and gives them more tools to enforce payment including bailiffs and ultimately, if you are a total dick and refuse to pay, bankruptcy and prison... See Roger Hayes as an example.

In reality councils will work with people who are having difficulty paying the tax but are addressing the issue and cooperating in good faith... Including allowing people to pay off arrears over a period of time. People who f**k about, demand to see the credit agreement with wet ink signature, try to employ freeman woo and wilfully refuse to pay are in for a whole world of hurt. The councils and the courts recognise the difference between won't pay and can't pay. The former is an offence, the latter isn't.

There are also 25% single occupier discounts, 100% relief for full time students and council-tax benefits for those with a low income.

You guys are hardass compared to we wimpy Canadians. I can delay paying property tax for years and in the end just pay the tax and accrued interest. Unless it's gone to court and I might get hit with some costs. No jail no matter what happens. In the end the municipality can get control of property and sell it for taxes but, given the value of property in Vancouver, this almost never happens.

We do have issues with property-rich, cash-poor people who just can't pay. Take somebody who paid $80,000 for a run-down place in the west side of Vancouver in 1978 and it is now worth at least $2,5000,000. This isn't hypothetical, the dump belongs to the guy I'm boozing with in Britain this summer. An increase in value of over 30 times the cost in less than 40 years is not unusual in Vancouver. Most of it accrued in the last decade. He's paying over $8,000 a year in property tax. He can meet it but it's a burden. What if he can't pay but wants to stay there? This is the situation a lot of elderly faced with just a basic pension and the house they've lived in forever. As I understand it the city allows them to not pay anything until they sell or die. Once either happens the bill falls due with accrued interest.

[SteveUK]

Other action, if you miss two monthly direct debt payments that facility is withdrawn and you have to pay in full.

This for Burnaby's benefit and enlightenment

It's true that if you miss two monthly payments (They don't have to be direct debit.. I don't do direct debits) then you lose the right to pay by instalments but that's more of an 'in theory' than an 'in practice'.

What actually happens is the council can then get a liability order from a magistrate which adds another £70 in legal fees to the bill and gives them more tools to enforce payment including bailiffs and ultimately, if you are a total dick and refuse to pay, bankruptcy and prison... See Roger Hayes as an example.

In reality councils will work with people who are having difficulty paying the tax but are addressing the issue and cooperating in good faith... Including allowing people to pay off arrears over a period of time. People who f**k about, demand to see the credit agreement with wet ink signature, try to employ freeman woo and wilfully refuse to pay are in for a whole world of hurt. The councils and the courts recognise the difference between won't pay and can't pay. The former is an offence, the latter isn't.

There are also 25% single occupier discounts, 100% relief for full time students and council-tax benefits for those with a low income.

You guys are hardass compared to we wimpy Canadians. I can delay paying property tax for years and in the end just pay the tax and accrued interest. Unless it's gone to court and I might get hit with some costs. No jail no matter what happens. In the end the municipality can get control of property and sell it for taxes but, given the value of property in Vancouver, this almost never happens.

We do have issues with property-rich, cash-poor people who just can't pay. Take somebody who paid $80,000 for a run-down place in the west side of Vancouver in 1978 and it is now worth at least $2,5000,000. This isn't hypothetical, the dump belongs to the guy I'm boozing with in Britain this summer. An increase in value of over 30 times the cost in less than 40 years is not unusual in Vancouver. Most of it accrued in the last decade. He's paying over $8,000 a year in property tax. He can meet it but it's a burden. What if he can't pay but wants to stay there? This is the situation a lot of elderly faced with just a basic pension and the house they've lived in forever. As I understand it the city allows them to not pay anything until they sell or die. Once either happens the bill falls due with accrued interest.

In the uk at least you don't get revalued unless you ask. Properties are all out into bands based on relative value. So, if your value goes up by 20%, but so does everyone else, you stay in that band.
There is of course a few % increases each year. Nottingham is notorious. A 2% rise forces a vote. Therefore I know I'm on for a 1.99% rise each year.

[Forsyth]

We do have issues with property-rich, cash-poor people who just can't pay. Take somebody who paid $80,000 for a run-down place in the west side of Vancouver in 1978 and it is now worth at least $2,5000,000. This isn't hypothetical, the dump belongs to the guy I'm boozing with in Britain this summer. An increase in value of over 30 times the cost in less than 40 years is not unusual in Vancouver. Most of it accrued in the last decade. He's paying over $8,000 a year in property tax. He can meet it but it's a burden. What if he can't pay but wants to stay there? This is the situation a lot of elderly faced with just a basic pension and the house they've lived in forever. As I understand it the city allows them to not pay anything until they sell or die. Once either happens the bill falls due with accrued interest.

One of the interesting parts about the Council Tax is that it's done by bands ('A' being the cheapest and 'H' being the most expensive) which is based on the value the property had in 1991. The theory being that a property in an area will have changed value in proportion to other surrounding property, so there's no need to adjust individually if they've all changed. If there's been a change that's out of keeping with the general area (major building work to add more rooms, for example) then things can be altered, but that's rare. New properties are put into a band according to the value they would have had in 1991.

The tax is paid by the residents and not (normally) the owners - this was the big change from the old 'rates' system - but it's not straightforward as there's a single bill for the property with all the taxable resident being jointly and severally liable for the total amount. Tenants usually pay it rather than landlords, but there are exceptions. There's a discount if only one person is living at an address, but no surcharge for more than two. Some people are exempt - so it's possible for no tax to be payable - but empty houses are taxed (though there's normally a grace period of six months or so, depending on the council). This makes it part property tax, part poll tax.

[Skeleton]

I agree up thread that adding students to the Poll Tax was a step to far, and caused all the problems and without doubt the riots that followed. It also had a knock on effect with the Council Tax that replaced it, the Government were determined come what may to collect it. I also agree the poll tax was not helped by Labour controlled Councils whacking it up to as high as possible, that still to this day mystifies me.
The Council I worked for kept it fairly simple when it came to non-payment, If people explained why they could not pay, they were put on a payment plan and all was good. Their was one particular estate though, where their Council Tax came way down the list of things to be paid, after Sky, the latest phone, laptop and shell suit for the old man etc.
They still expected their bins to be emptied and the Fire Brigade to attend, and were the first to point out if their was a problem with a pavement etc that had caused them "injury." The bailiffs liked that estate, but it has to be said the residents bought it on themselves.

[PeanutGallery]

I also agree the poll tax was not helped by Labour controlled Councils whacking it up to as high as possible, that still to this day mystifies me.

The cynic in me says that they did this to exploit the general ignorance about who was going to be held responsible when the tax bill came. Most people wouldn't have known that the amount was controlled at a local level and would have instead simply seen the entire operation as a Tory wheeze.

The protests were all anti-Thatcher and no ire was directed towards the councils. It was politics.

[Skeleton]

One cell has released his latest you tube hit at a very appropriate moment. He has his own special take on Gough Whitlam's removal as Prime Minister of Australia. As usual has everything he says is completely wrong and he obviously has no idea how politics work in Australia or how the Governor General in particular got involved. One upset Aussie has already taken him to task in the comments, I am betting the comment has gone by tomorrow.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRUlL8DPRcI

[longdog]

I also agree the poll tax was not helped by Labour controlled Councils whacking it up to as high as possible, that still to this day mystifies me.

The cynic in me says that they did this to exploit the general ignorance about who was going to be held responsible when the tax bill came. Most people wouldn't have known that the amount was controlled at a local level and would have instead simply seen the entire operation as a Tory wheeze.

The protests were all anti-Thatcher and no ire was directed towards the councils. It was politics.

I think it was pretty clear from the beginning that the Poll Tax was doomed and so councils were happy to use it as a political tool and that includes Tory councils who sent out artificially low bills with the balance being funded by loans, selling off the family silver and dodgy accounting practices. It also became clear after the first year that non-payment was going to be a very significant problem which led to the poorer, and generally labour controlled, areas raising the tax to recover the missing money which of course just made non-payment even more of a problem... Which was exactly what the Tory government had intended would happen.

I don't think the fact students had to pay had very much to do with the failure of the poll-tax. The opposition was largely from the working classes who recognised very early that they were being shafted.

Incidentally I would add that I never paid a single penny of the Poll Tax

[FatGambit]

Shame the majority of the working class have become oblivious to said shafting now...

[longdog]

Shame the majority of the working class have become oblivious to said shafting now...

Well quite.

[AndyPandy]

Does anyone know what this guy's on ...... just knowing which planet would be useful !!

http://getoutofdebtfree.org/forum/viewt ... tbaWHrfWK0

REVIVED GRAND JURY OF AND FOR THE PEOPLE OF THE SHIRE OF NOT

A post that says it all ceylon , and good work S,O,S .
A noted situation from our perspective , whenever a "victory" of sorts where the ones demanding monies close the account or end their claim . there seems to be a torrade of claims in response by others . a large payment to a lady from probate , then the council, bailiffs, and others filled the post box . do they have the bank account activity , or automatic that info given out . too many times to be a one off .
the council fake warrants and the collusion of these fake bailiffs must be brought to an end .
your posts tell us of the obvious fraud yet we are unable to stop them . the "police" so in bed with them this is EU police state tactics ,and as camoron put it "the illusion of sovereignty" to the nay sayers of the EU. that total traitor , and herald to the zionist agenda . we need to sweep the whole lot out and all monies taken back, no one should be homeless and destitute . we have to do this and soon .