Peter of England and WeaRe not a Bank

[Zeke_the_Meek]

Am I imagining things or does Peter go to the bookies AFTER the Brexit to fake a video of him placing a bet on the results of the referendum?

https://youtu.be/hyl6WL1VwKQ

He is trying to make out that because he knew leave would win, he placed a large bet. Obviously much like his previous video, he most likely put two bets on to cover both outcomes.

However, even though he only at most bet £1, if he did win a lot, what would he do with all of that useless fiat currency ? Why did he not bet using Re's ? The bookie should have paid the old fraud with a WeRe Cheque and see how he likes it.

He bet £10 at 3/1. Hardly the most confident bet in the world, and not exactly a truckload of fiat, toxic returns.

We won't talk about the £100 I put on Remain.

[rumpelstilzchen]

Peter appears to be suggesting that a bag full of worthless toxic fiat debt notes is a good thing to have.
He obviously puts it above a bag of Re.
He must have come to his senses at long last.
Although, I didn't actually see any money in that video.

[Seelenblut]

BREAKING NEWS - I swear, while i was writing this very post, the following happened in the (3) German WeRe Skype chats (with still about 500 members, although some are duplicates) ...

nabila Aliani ツ time to tell the truth *** ღ ***
Good Morning. The chats will all be closed as soon as I get to my computer ... Thanks, have a nice day

Nabila is/was the Creator/Admin, I mentioned her several times in earlier posts. Obviously she takes the chats down because of the growing discontent, as the following posts shows ...

Gerhard MensJCH
Thanks for the work, dear Nabila, maybe we can work more constructively in the Active-Group and create positive energy and constructive results. I would be happy about that.

nabila Aliani ツ time to tell the truth *** ღ ***
Yes, let's do that.
And anybody who isn't contributing gets kicked

With the "Active-Group" they most likely mean the "Orga-Team Movement" group, which is a private group for the active "inner circle" - including Peter and Karin - with only 21 members.

------------------------------------------------------------

Back to the regular programming:

The German-speaking WeRe community has basically fallen apart into three groups now ...

There is (probably the largest) group of people that have finally given up. The numbers in skype and mumbler chats drop continuously and there are even goodbye messages (most just quietly slip away, though).

Cas Marrai
Use the LLTs for charitable causes? Who is accepting them? Nobody! But PoE can ask for the value on the promissory notes, from each and everyone of us!

Habersetzer Rudi
What good are LLT when I cant use them, since I got them they are lying around.

At least he isn't charged with fraud, then ...

Dr. Wolfram Schetula
Are LLTs accepted anywhere at this point?

* Marion B. *
No, I don't think so Wolfram

Not even the most ardent supporters argue against such posts anymore, which they did furiously only a few months ago.

Siegfried Woitulek
4) At least 12.500, if not more, involved LLT owners don't know what to do with those papers. Supposedly we have to learn banking to explain bankers their job ...

5.) Everything that he claimed, how easy it is, just fill out a promissory note , send real money wrapped in tin foil, get a LLT booklet and pay your debt ... all smoke and ashes ... !!!

6) How well PoE is managing his life is clearly visible ... many still wait for their LLT booklet or that the website becomes more professional, and now the good man has even forgotten to pay for his certificate ... oh, what a reliable person he is, and don't forget, he is in charge of a bank. I can only shake my head. Thanks, but No!!!

This last one was part of a much longer rant that brings us to the second group ... the ones that think the ridiculous - and so creatively named - "newbank" scam will give the LLTs value. As I mentioned, some members pay 100 Euro per newbank "share" (most buy at least two) for the promise, that the new bank (how clever) will accept WeRe checks once it is running (but supposedly only from people that buy shares, which not only didn't ring any alarm bells by those that fell for it, no, it has made them arrogant - they are going to swim in that sweet LLT money and the rest can suck it) ... it still has only some google e-mail addresses and a couple of amateurish write-ups on it's side, but dozens of WeRe member have fallen for it, nevertheless.

Another hilarious aspect of this newbank situation is that Peter was asked about support for it, and he not only flat out rejected it but now tries to actively discourage people from using it. It seems, one scammer is begrudging the other scammer their share of the booty.

Siegfried Woitulek
1) What is that about? Instead of being happy that the community of his WeRe members has found a possible solution, that man is trying to block all that ... WELL, HE IS TRYING TO!!!

2) Again, what right does this man have to dictate people how to use their LLT!!!

3) There is no contact from the New Bank to the WeRe Bank, and there doesn't have to! Why? Does a free Bank have to deal with a non-accredited bank??? NO!!! So PoE doesn't need to support this.

The last, and smallest group by now, are the die-hard believers, blaming everybody except Peter for the failure and sticking to their OPPT guns.

nabila Aliani ツ time to tell the truth *** ღ ***
Nobody rejected it through UCC
And after 3 months it is accepted

Well, as the public chats close, it seems that this group is retreating into a protected reservation, where they can continue to swoon over Peter's delusions. The newbank fans created their own closed group, and the rest - especially the ones that stuggle with legal troubles because of WeRe and regularly looked for help ... they are left out in the cold, alone.

[NYGman]

Gerhard MensJCH
Thanks for the work, dear Nabila, maybe we can work more constructively in the Active-Group and create positive energy and constructive results. I would be happy about that.

In other words - Positive Energy = Re+, Re+ = More Re's, More Re's = More $$$, More $$$ = Profit!!!

What a plan, chat to each other in what effectively is an echo chamber, supporting a worthless bank, with worthless notes, puffing themselves up, discussing how they are right, and the world is wrong, and make RE+ while doing it! Amazing....

of course, perhaps they meant Positive Energy in another way, as in a good emotional reeling, and nothing more, which come to think of it, is exactly what PoE is selling.

[Seelenblut]

A second update, this is about the legal troubles of some of the Austrian WeRe users ...

A post on the German-speaking WeRe forum, from last night:

Hello!

The police has just visited my landlord and she has to go to the local police station on Friday, June 1st, 2016, to be interrogated for check fraud. She got a LLT over 4.680 Euro from me on December 31st, 2015, to pay for the whole 2016 rent and has handed it in on January 8th, 2016, at her usual bank (BAWAG), for the money to be transferred to her account. As almost EVERYBODY knows by now, this did NOT happen and the LLT was not returned either.

Now to my questions! It is very likely that I, as the drawer of the LLT (check, according to the police), will soon be facing charges, a complaint or something similar, and because of that I would like to network with people in the area of Graz - I live in Gleisdorf - which face similar problems, because the police mentioned to my landlord that there are several cases. We could eventually hire a lawyer together, which is surely cheaper for several person, and discuss the whole situation.

The rest of the post is about ways to contact him.

So, while it takes time, the investigations into WeRe check use are still going on and if there are several cases in the area of Graz alone (second largest city in Austria, but only around 25th when including Germany) ...

[exiledscouser]

Gerhard MensJCH
Thanks for the work, dear Nabila, maybe we can work more constructively in the Active-Group and create positive energy and constructive results. I would be happy about that.

In other words - Positive Energy = Re+, Re+ = More Re's, More Re's = More $$$, More $$$ = Profit!!!

What a plan, chat to each other in what effectively is an echo chamber, supporting a worthless bank, with worthless notes, puffing themselves up, discussing how they are right, and the world is wrong, and make RE+ while doing it! Amazing....

of course, perhaps they meant Positive Energy in another way, as in a good emotional reeling, and nothing more, which come to think of it, is exactly what PoE is selling.

But here's the difficulty. According to Smith's unified WeRe theory all that +ve Re must be generating an equal and opposite amount of -ve Re somewhere else.

It's conservation of energy although if the value of one Re = 0 then the maths is dead easy. But PoE insists that his action in "clearing" one of his adherents cheques or LLT creates a negative balance on the payee's books which Lord Denning says......drone.....bore.

So, where do the -ve Re's go?

[Footloose52]

But here's the difficulty. According to Smith's unified WeRe theory all that +ve Re must be generating an equal and opposite amount of -ve Re somewhere else.

It's conservation of energy although if the value of one Re = 0 then the maths is dead easy. But PoE insists that his action in "clearing" one of his adherents cheques or LLT creates a negative balance on the payee's books which Lord Denning says......drone.....bore.

So, where do the -ve Re's go?

Just draw a parallel with energy (which the Re is supposed to be anyway) and matter. If matter (+ve Re) meets antimatter (-ve Re) you get an explosion of massive size creating energy. Is that what Peter is talking about? Surely in that case +ve and -ve Re must never meet or there is annihilation ....

So the -ve Re must move to another Universe based on Dark Matter. Ah, that comes back to the alien involvement theory we have heard from Peter in the past.

[Seelenblut]

The negative energy is generated by my frustration, when I just now read a new forum poll on the German WeRe forum that asks, who would be interested in the "new bank opportunity", and within the last 4 hours a total of 130 people (on a forum with about 1.500 members), all just scammed by a false bank, happily expressed their interest in being scammed by a "new" false bank. *sighs*



52 want to use it, 6 want to use it anonymously, 73 want to use it but might have trouble with the initial cost, only 6 say no ...

[AndyPandy]

A second update, this is about the legal troubles of some of the Austrian WeRe users ...

A post on the German-speaking WeRe forum, from last night:

Hello!

The police has just visited my landlord and she has to go to the local police station on Friday, June 1st, 2016, to be interrogated for check fraud. She got a LLT over 4.680 Euro from me on December 31st, 2015, to pay for the whole 2016 rent and has handed it in on January 8th, 2016, at her usual bank (BAWAG), for the money to be transferred to her account. As almost EVERYBODY knows by now, this did NOT happen and the LLT was not returned either.

Now to my questions! It is very likely that I, as the drawer of the LLT (check, according to the police), will soon be facing charges, a complaint or something similar, and because of that I would like to network with people in the area of Graz - I live in Gleisdorf - which face similar problems, because the police mentioned to my landlord that there are several cases. We could eventually hire a lawyer together, which is surely cheaper for several person, and discuss the whole situation.

The rest of the post is about ways to contact him.

So, while it takes time, the investigations into WeRe check use are still going on and if there are several cases in the area of Graz alone (second largest city in Austria, but only around 25th when including Germany) ...

So basically, he's gone from flogging dud cheques that if people used they might get evicted (they would probably have been anyway without piss takers duds) to getting people imprisoned for cheque fraud... The man has no shame.

[afateworsethandeath]

And yet he remains free. It is so frustrating

[rumpelstilzchen]

Supposedly we have to learn banking to explain bankers their job ...

Brilliant! Just brilliant!

[Gregg]

But here's the difficulty. According to Smith's unified WeRe theory all that +ve Re must be generating an equal and opposite amount of -ve Re somewhere else.

It's conservation of energy although if the value of one Re = 0 then the maths is dead easy. But PoE insists that his action in "clearing" one of his adherents cheques or LLT creates a negative balance on the payee's books which Lord Denning says......drone.....bore.

So, where do the -ve Re's go?

Just draw a parallel with energy (which the Re is supposed to be anyway) and matter. If matter (+ve Re) meets antimatter (-ve Re) you get an explosion of massive size creating energy. Is that what Peter is talking about? Surely in that case +ve and -ve Re must never meet or there is annihilation ....

So the -ve Re must move to another Universe based on Dark Matter. Ah, that comes back to the alien involvement theory we have heard from Peter in the past.

From Peter of England's point of view the equation works just fine, to wit:

The negative is the victims (who honestly most of didn't just ask for it, they got down on their knees and begged for it) losing real money they can ill afford to, in exchange for fantasy money that they can't actually use.
The Positive is that real money going in to PofE's bank account (which is most likely either under a mattress or held in a fake name Pete is more or less blacklisted from having a real bank).

[Hercule Parrot]

So basically, he's gone from flogging dud cheques that if people used they might get evicted (they would probably have been anyway without piss takers duds) to getting people imprisoned for cheque fraud... The man has no shame.

And yet he remains free. It is so frustrating

I see it a bit differently. Unfortunately there are a lot of people out there who are vulnerable to being scammed, whether because of their own stupidity, greed or desperation. Falling for a big scam can have grave consequences for them and others around them. Compared to this, WereBank is a 'small scam'. The product for sale is a worthless pretend currency, which can be obtained quite cheaply. Most WereMembers will have given Peter Smith less than £200, so it's not going to fatally harm their finances.

The real benefit they get is not the ability to pay off their mortgage with an LLT. The real benefit is that they get taught a lesson about greed and stupidity. They lose the money they sent to Smith, and they have a series of frustrating, embarrassing experiences when they try to 'spend' their Re's. They waste hours arguing with utility companies, composing rubbish letters full of UCC & maxims, and moaning on messageboards. Their debts get worse, their credit rating gets worse, they get penalty charges and CIFAS flags on their accounts. They embarrass themselves with boasts to friends and family which turn out to be hollow. Like Seelenblut's German members, they eventually lose hope or realise the truth.

I view this as an inoculation against greater harm :
"Noting the common observation that milkmaids were generally immune to smallpox, Jenner postulated that the pus in the blisters that milkmaids received from cowpox (a disease similar to smallpox, but much less virulent) protected them from smallpox." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Je ... he_vaccine

Obviously these comments do not apply to the ruthless, cynically greedy Werecustomers (like Jimmy One-Cell). They will go from one scam to the next, and they will never learn anything. But hopefully a good proportion will experience disillusionment and disappointment, will ruefully learn that if something looks too good to be true then.... And so Smith's Werebank scam will have taught them a valuable life lesson for a very reasonable cost.

I would obviously like Peter Smith to suffer a penalty for his predatory fraud, but I am happy to await those just desserts coming some way up the road. In the meantime, he plays a useful role as the pus from a cowpox blister.

[notorial dissent]

snipity snip...
The real benefit they get is not the ability to pay off their mortgage with an LLT. The real benefit is that they get taught a lesson about greed and stupidity. They lose the money they sent to Smith, and they have a series of frustrating, embarrassing experiences when they try to 'spend' their Re's. They waste hours arguing with utility companies, composing rubbish letters full of UCC & maxims, and moaning on messageboards. Their debts get worse, their credit rating gets worse, they get penalty charges and CIFAS flags on their accounts. They embarrass themselves with boasts to friends and family which turn out to be hollow. Like Seelenblut's German members, they eventually lose hope or realise the truth.
snipity snip....

While I agree in the main with most of what you've said here, with the above paragraph I cannot.

They most emphatically DO NOT learn from the experience, they just go on to the next "greatest thing", and the next, and the next, as surely this time I twill be the one, and continue to get taken, over and over and over. The victims of this kind of fraud do not have the discrimination circuit in their brains that tells yells and screams at them loudly that this is a con and you are being taken. They may well be greedy, and desperate, but when it comes right down to it, they cannot see or accept and WILL NOT see or accept that what is going on is a fraud and will continue with it or go looking for the next one. They are basically ponzi victims without the ponzi. One of the most valuable assets a ponzi scammer has is is sucker list, and that is what PoE has.

The thing that makes this type of activity particularly egregious and heinous is exactly that it targets the most vulnerable members of society who have no real defense against it, and as you point out are desperate, greedy, and credulous. In that Pustulence of England is a particularly virulent piece of crap.

[Zeke_the_Meek]

I think Seelenblut's members have proven that the vast majority don't learn from their mistake, as evidenced by the baffling number of people interested in this "Newbank" madness. Going from one scam to the exact same scam in even worse clothes when you're so broke you can barely afford to join it makes baby Jesus cry.

And to say that £200 is a small price to pay is, well, a little naive. By and large, these people can nary afford to lose a tenner without it having a big impact on their short-term finances, but as you even acknowledge Hercule, that's the least of the worries: even worse is the CCJs/blacklisting/utility cut-offs and even legal trouble that we frequently see here. These can take years if not decades to recover from, particularly if you're in a vortex of poverty (and poor money management) to begin with.

They seem to exhibit some kind of gambler's fallacy, in which they'll chase their losses with fanciful thinking right over the end of the cliff. Gamblers also commonly think that they've spotted someone nobody else has, or figured out some magical system (sold to them by a 'guru'.)

But while gamblers usually aren't malevolent - they're out for 'free' money but not at the expense of another party (bookies aside) and play within the system - the Goodfers actively try and welch on debts and defraud people for free goods and services. That's why I have no sympathy for them, really.

As for PoE? I think he's even more contemptible given that he's willing to sell people down the river for a measly £12 a pop. It shows how little he cares for the wellbeing of others - I'm not entirely sure that he's not a sociopath.

[afateworsethandeath]

I completely agree with the above comments. In the grand scheme of things POE scam is on a very small scale. However, what better way to send out a deterrent to those contemplating joining the scheme, and to illustrate to those that have joined, that it is nothing more than a fraud, by arresting and seeking a prosecution against POE. Whilst I accept that many of his victims will remain loyal to him and blame everyone except POE, there will be others that will have lost all faith in him, as evidenced by the FOI request from Action Fraud some weeks ago which showed that they had received 35 complaints about Were Bank. It is about time that his little scam was stopped

[littleFred]

I agree that Peter's little scam should be stopped, but I don't see that this would persuade suckers that they have been scammed. To the true believer, it would simply be evidence that the authorities were afraid of Peter and needed to prevent him from crashing the world's currencies.

And I think there is a practical difficulty of gathering evidence for a UK prosecution. A German and/or Austrian prosecution may be more likely.

[TheNewSaint]

I think a big part of the problem is a lack of education about the world of finance. Not just about managing one's own budget and credit, but ignorance about how money and finance work in general. Peter rants about "toxic fiat currency", but his proposed replacement is far more toxic and far more fiat. These people lack the wherewithal to see that the cure is worse than the disease.

And the statement is just plain wrong. Currencies are not "fiat" - they have value to the extent that people trust in them. Some currencies have lost their value entirely; others have been created; some are used in ways not intended by the issuing body. Currencies change value all the time, based on the public's confidence in them. I need hardly give a recent example of this.

If people wanted to use Re, they would. They use Bitcoins, Ithaca Hours, Canadian Tire dollars, and other non-government issued currencies. There isn't some all-seeing cabal forcing people to use, or not use, any means of exchange. But Peter's targets don't understand this. It's easy for him to sell them the picture of evil bankers cackling and printing bills, and present himself as the solution to that non-existent problem.

[Seelenblut]

I think that the WeRe scam has an especially low entry threshold ... sure, there are members that are deep into freeman and oppt stuff, but those are also prone to use their own promissory notes, don't sit down in court until the judge legitimizes himself or reject fines "without prejudice".

WeRe is so dangerous - and has reached so many here - because it allows even people on the outside of this "freeman bubble" to latch on with a relatively "respectable" first-look impression. Bank, website, checks, online clearing, supposedly secured by gold and bonds ... the majority of German-speaking WeRe members are not classical freemen. Sure, they are not the most intelligent or educated lot, they greedily wish to get rid of their debt for free and they ignore the insanity of the more "serious" members, but Peter has stumbled onto just the right mix to lure in a much wider range of people then pure freeman/oppt crap would usually do.

So I think that some will indeed learn, but those are the quiet ones, that have hoped and lost. And a few of them are now jumping onto the newbank scam, following the aforementioned gambler's fallacy. Of course, there is a hopeless core of members that wouldn't believe WeRe to be a scam even if Peter himself would tell them. They can't, or they would face much larger issues with the rest of their ideas.

-------

P.S: I am lately pondering § 278 StGB (Austrian Criminal Code) ...

"A criminal organization is an association of more than two people, created for a longer period of time, that is designed to allow one or more members of this association to carry out one or several felonies ... [it then goes on to list a number of applicable crimes in names or paragraphs, including non-petty fraud]"

"A member participates in a criminal organization if he carries out a punishable offence within the range of the associations criminal orientation, or participates in its activities by providing information or assets, or participates in another way knowing that he thereby supports the organization or its criminal activities."

"Whoever sets up a criminal organization, or participates as a member, is punishable by a prison term of up to three years."

It was criticized, when being created not too many years ago, because of its vagueness and got a lot of attention when a group of animal right activists were charged with it (they eventually got acquitted). But now, as a number of WeRe members face fraud charges, executed with material and information provided by other group members and its founder ... I can't get it out of my head.

[mufc1959]

Zeke wrote:

And to say that £200 is a small price to pay is, well, a little naive. By and large, these people can nary afford to lose a tenner without it having a big impact on their short-term finances, but as you even acknowledge Hercule, that's the least of the worries: even worse is the CCJs/blacklisting/utility cut-offs and even legal trouble that we frequently see here. These can take years if not decades to recover from, particularly if you're in a vortex of poverty (and poor money management) to begin with.

The woman in Illinois springs to mind. Single mother bringing up a daughter, working two jobs. She fell hook, line and sinker for WeRe Bank. She tried (and failed) to pay off her student loan, car insurance and car finance. Worst of all, she gave her landlords a WeRe cheque for over $10,000, to pay her rent in advance for the remainder of her lease.

All attempts by the building management to work with her were rebuffed, as she fell further and further into the WeRe Woo, sending them documents from the WeRe Bank website which she insisted "proved" her payment had been made. These documents were written by Peter in a language known as Utter Bollocks. She posted letters from the building managers on the WeRe Bank forum which showed they were willing to work with her to keep her in her home if she'd only start paying them with actual money. But she wouldn't accept that the landlords hadn't been paid.

Eventually it went to court where the judge adjourned the case, possibly to research WeRe Bank himself, and also to give the woman time to get legal advice. As I recall, I think she found a lawyer, but once she presented him with the documents from the website and insisted these were what she was relying on, he wasn't able to help her any more.

She ended up being evicted, in Illinois in the winter, and going to a hotel where she had only enough money to accommodate her and her daughter for a few nights.

She lost everything, partly through stubbornness and an unwillingness to accept the reality of her situation. But a large part of the blame must lie with Peter.