Breath of Sanity

[Quartermass]

Hello and thank you for such a wonderful site. It is surprisingly hard to find sanity when forced to wade through the wilderness of sovereigns and sadly I've been drawn in much deeper than I'd prefer. I did realize the other day that it's surprising so many of these folks take it only half way...why correct your status merely to camel case when you could just go all the way. e e cummings must be the patron saint of sovereigns since he has no capital letters at all!

That noted, I wonder if anyone might be able to help me figure out what to do. It's one thing to deal with this at a distance or on an intellectual level but unfortunately I have a situation where my spouse has bought the whole sovereign line: turning in citizenship, tax protesting (she's got Moyland's book), setting up a million trusts, redemption - the whole ball of wax. Spouse 's family is being drawn in and now the kids as well (all very young) which she wants to 'liberate their names from state ownership'.

I cannot even understand daily conversations anymore and have grave concerns for dealing with the situation but I'm really worried how all this will play in divorce proceedings and the like. There are UCC filings and she keeps claiming she's got her status all 'corrected' and her properties protected from the banks and ensconced in a trust (former realtor). She's already been in jail for 'travelling' without a license and I'm certain there is more coming but as everyone knows, these things tend to move slowly through the sausage grinder and I'm about my wits end.

Every failure is the cops (or whomever) not understanding how the world really works and all evidence to the contrary is part of the conspiracy.

At minimum thanks for listening to my rant, but any idea how to find support when actually having to deal with this stuff personally?

[AndyK]

Point out to spouse that the marriage license is onvalid due to (1) capital letters in names and (2) it was a coerced contract with the state.

Then, ask her where she'd like you to ship her belongings.

Seriously, if she's gone totally off the deep end, you need to protect yourself. Consider getting an attorney to help you legally insulate yourself from her financial insanity.

[Burnaby49]

Point out to spouse that the marriage license is onvalid due to (1) capital letters in names and (2) it was a coerced contract with the state.

Then, ask her where she'd like you to ship her belongings.

Seriously, if she's gone totally off the deep end, you need to protect yourself. Consider getting an attorney to help you legally insulate yourself from her financial insanity.

Good advice. If your wife is as far gone as you state she's past anything you can do and your only practical recourse is damage control to hang on to whatever financial assets you can. You have to sever yourself from her legally so that you aren't responsible for anything she does. And try and get control, or at least joint control, of your kids. As Andy indicates a lawyer experienced in family law is probably a must so you can get a legal perspective.

[notorial dissent]

I hate to have to add myself to the dual comments above, and as cynical as they sound, yeah, in spades. When a spouse, of any loved one for that matter, goes full bore on something like this there isn't much you can do. If they have gotten this far along, they will only get worse. Logic doesn't work in a situation like this since the sovcit stuff is anti-logic to begin with. Seriously, the only thing you can do is prepare yourself and distance yourself as it can and will draw you down with it regardless of whether you play or not. This has been the death and destruction of a great many marriages not to mention lives.

[wserra]

I can only suggest one thing that my colleagues haven't already suggested. I agree that it's very unlikely that you can convince someone in that deep that she is wrong. You may, however, be able to convince her that, right or wrong, it won't work. Whatever flavor of sovrun stupidity you may be dealing with, we've discussed it.

For example, by "Moyland" I assume you mean David Myrland. We've written quite a bit about him, complete with links to sources. Probably the most telling point is that he spent three years in federal prison for using his own stuff. It isn't necessary to believe that he's wrong in order to want to avoid his fate.

Even those gurus who have avoided prison universally have strings of failures in the real world. They're all here too.

You're in a tough spot, but I agree that you need to do whatever it takes to protect yourself and your kids. The kids are often the ones who suffer the most. Good luck, and feel free to post here.

[JamesVincent]

Welcome aboard Quartermass and sorry it was for the reason it is. I had a couple of friends divorce in the same scenario, she went hardcore and he's a conservative like me. Only thing I would add to the advice given is to keep track, best you can, of the things she does in wackyland. It will become very important later. Don't know where you're at, state wise, so can't really help you with specifics.

We have had a couple of spouses come on here before and talk about the Hell their marriage had become after the other drank the koolaid and the damage afterwards. Like Wes said feel free to post anytime with questions or comments. Best of luck to you.

[Llwellyn]

I, myself, have a few friends who believe in all of these rather far flung ideas..and I challenge them on small points, disprove them, and it is returned with things like, oh the corrupt system, it' all a conspiracy, government control.. etc etc. To which I usually reply, BUT that is the SYSTEM you live in, whether you like it or not is not relevant, you have to live within it! Or, you can, as the others have, fight it, and as the other have, end up broke, destitute, or in jail. There is a rule about messing with the bureaucracy.. that is, no matter how hard you hit them, they can always hit back harder. In challenging them, I have been able to direct.. very slowly (over years as it is) them in the system.. but they are always looking for 'ways out'.. one just thought to sign up to a credit card that 'pays you the user fees'.. (it' a marketing scam). One of the hardest issues to over come, is that they use 'semblances' of truth... bits and pieces of truths that they spur together into a mish-mash which ends up 'true'.
You do need to protect yourself, and those around you as best you can. I wish you the best in your efforts.

Llwellyn
Guardian and Keeper of the Tor

[NYGman]

Thinking you need to give your spouss a choice between believing you, the one they love, married, and have a family with and to live within societies rules, even if they disagree, or listening to some strangers they have never met, who want to sell information, or provider their service for a fee should something go wrong.

Tell her to let someone else fight this battle, their fight and effort should be the family she has, and now risks losing. She is free to support in spirit, but not in action or with money.

[Judge Roy Bean]

What you're dealing with (and is common among the "faithful") is known as a "Cognitive Bias."

Google "Dunning-Kruger effect" and do some study. Your spouse may need some professional help and if she refuses, she is endangering the well-being of her children, which, depending on the state you live in, has a series of possible consequences.

[Quartermass]

Thank you to all for the level-headed words. I am working to protect myself legally which will unfortunately be harder than it ought due to things I've not challenged already up to this point. Kept thinking logic would make some dent but boy is it amazing how that does not work out in practice as well as in theory.

Sadly there is a huge component of groupthink going on. It's like a cult or gang membership the way other like-thinking people consume the mental space. The other problem is that things play out like a pyramid scheme in that it actually seems to work for a while - the first few batches in cash out okay and that becomes grist for new recruits to believe. Similarly the state will just accept and sometimes even respond to the spurious filings which is evidence that she's doing it right. In the case of the Sec'y of State, as noted in the report linked to here http://www.nass.org/news-releases-and-s ... ort-aug12/ they can't refuse any filing even if it is blatantly fraudulent. Also in there it makes clear the *real* reason she and others make themselves into transmitting utilities (UCC filings never expire for that class of 'person').

And comments by officials are taken way out of context as well. One judge asked why she was in the courtroom instead of the Sec'y of State and while the sarcasm seems evident she takes it instead as evidence that he is actually encouraging her to do things the 'right way'.

And yes @wserra I did mean to say "Myrland" - my typo there. Over a year ago I'm overhearing a video conference (some Boris guy "at the beachhouse") and one guy says flat out to the assembled, "has anybody here not been in jail at some point" like it's almost a badge of honor for this crew.

Professional help has been recommended by several but she does refuse. At this point it's my belief that she will be in jail or committed within a year (though she believes that once she corrects her status they can do whatever they want to the all caps name).

So thanks again and I'm off to google "Dunning-Kruger effect".

[The Observer]

One thing to keep in mind when wondering why logic loses out over the long run is the fact that as human beings, we are more irrational than rational. We tend to accept what can't possibly be true for a number of reasons from wishing to escape consequences to avoiding confrontation or loss or humiliation.