for those whom have just got into freeman, opca, sovereign citizen type movements

[bmxninja357]

this post is not so much for the regular crowd on this site but more for the freeman, sovcit, opca type folks. not the so legally open minded ones that are beyond hope and use the failures of the gibberish as justification of their crappy attitude and sense of entitlement. but the ones asking why doesn't the plans of those who appear to know whats going on ever work. why is this small group of folks unable to work together and build something better for themselves and their fellow man? they need ideas that don't get them incarcerated, bankrupt, in legal trouble and alienated by family and friends. luckily some of us are still capable of using our brains and thinking it through. and as i have before, i will share some of these ideas. im not really trying to push folks off any of these movements; i just want to see those who get involved not ruin themselves and maybe actually make difference. i do respect folks who genuinely wish to help others and want to try and change things they feel are wrong. and if my little vent can help someone whos confused or has been mislead i will be dang happy. and i need to vent a little so i may as well try and make it productive.

first turn off the youtube for solid legal advice. really. do not get legal or medical advice from youtube or most alternative sites in general. all i have seen for the last couple years is youtube university graduates writing increasingly useless, incoherent and often illegal paperwork forests that have never had and never will be of any use. and the courts have had enough. and not just in canada. but pretty much across the globe. the next step is adding extra consequence to these actions and an easier system for the courts to have folks declared vexatious litigants. and this will screw people in the long run. this is where you will make sure your never able to get a bank loan. you wont be able to rent decent places. people wont hire you. and you may get yourself put on some sort of watch list as a threat (even though i do believe the vast majority of opca, freeman, sovcit types are non violent and not any type of threat to anyone but themselves). when you are reading an item on some site making a claim that these magic words or super secret process will get you off a charge or make you a special snowflake that gets privileges and rights above all others and/or gives you money or an income, or perhaps means you dont have to pay taxes, just stop. turn the blinders off. look for results. ask yourself if that is really the way the world works? are any of the claimed wins verifiable? has it been repeated? and that is just a start. if an idea actually has legs you should be able to come at the idea in every direction and the person using the idea should definitely have a trail of how it was done and how it legally worked. for as much as a convoluted mess as the legal system is it still follows a distinct pattern and it has rules and ways it operates. you must follow those protocols. any idea must follow the way the system and the world works. if it doesn't it fails.

{occasionally an idea may appear to win. there are many reasons it may look like a opca gibberish fest worked. this may not be the true reason for the favorable decision. for example you may file 932 pages of gibberish for a traffic violation and when you go to court the cop isn't there, a fairly common thing, and the ticket gets toss. absolutely nothing to do with the gibberish you wrote. you won because the witness was not present. but many will come up with a zillion reasons why the paperwork made you the special snowflake. and if anything the judge may get pissy and put your ticket over until the officer can be present. then you will lose. but that is the risk. in short often its correlation not causation.}

and this is not the forum for me to get into the shocking amount of opca, freeman, sovcit types who get their medical advice from expert internet alternative doctors and several peers who have graduated the medical program offered at youtube university. i have watched a few folks die listening to the Internets fine medical advice. in short if you or a friend is really ill go to a real doctor. thats all i am saying on that subject.

now you get to hear all these fancy pipe dreams aboot how we are going to replace the in place systems of the world. oh my what a wonderful world it will be. except for one thing.... none of these folks can work together. what seems like people doing something is nothing more than a bunch of recycled ideas, facebook likes and 'make me feel good' poppycock. there is no utopia in the near future. its simply not happening. in fact i will go so far as to say you invite quite the opposite of utopia with forests of single spaced toilet paper. getting watched, getting arrested, having things like your vehicle seized, being unable to get government assistance for anything, being unable to gain and maintain meaningful employment, being unable to rent a quality home, etc. is the polar opposite of utopia. and its this dog turd covered trail many of the youtube gurus and vocal followers ask for donations for this or that to get this monumental idea off the ground. and it has never worked. and with the current flock of of opca turkeys its becoming less likely for any such idea to move past a daydream; little on to completion. there is a track record for virtually all groups happy to take the donations and make big promises but do nothing more than that. daydream about things while your donation pays for the 5 dollar starbucks coffee. or a night of beers or whatever the receiver chooses to spend the never accounted for donations and other gratuities on. anyone getting into the freeman opca thing really needs to make some pm's on your forum of choice and meet some of these folks. have a few questions you ask each one. see if any of their ideas are reasonable, feasible, economically sound and advantageous equally to all involved. your going to meet some nice folks. and your going to meet some real pricks. i can tell you there is often a huge difference between who these folks are hiding behind a keyboard and who they are in the real world. many of these folks are quick to tell anyone what they want to hear on a forum. its easy to act the part when no one knows any better. i have met many people in my years in the freeman community. maybe 20% are the same in the real world as they are on line. and it creates a problem when trying to start a project. you cant get the right man for the job if you haven't actually seen them in action in the real world. your dealing with a group of people who do not know if they are socialist, anarchist, democratic, communist, law of the jungle or letter of the law type folks. with this diversity a group could not hold a pizza party without a week of debate, and an infinite amount of grievances as every member has the golden idea and is sure they are the special snowflake.

if it seems like i am bashing the current state of the freeman,opca, sovcit type forums, ideas, teachings and gurus well, i am. its current state is like a perpetual motion machine of failure. no really new idea or way of working together is currently apparent. i have many friends and folks i get along with in the freeman and several other movements so one could say i have a little deeper familiarity with the good and the bad of many of the legal and lifestyle aspects of the current movements. for the last few years i have became more and more disappointed with how little genuine care for the well being of those in the movement exists. yes if you read the forums and such it looks like everyone really cares about each other. but its really just cheap subterfuge. look into the ideas these folks joyfully tell you when you get in some form of trouble (legal, financial, mental, physical). the suggestion is almost always some idea that has failed every time. something almost guaranteed to make your life harder. and they do it in a very deceptive fashion. and being as how these places are an echo chamber where the real world takes a back seat. when you disagree you often get blasted from all sides telling you your stupid and a shill or some such. or just banned. its almost tragic how gullible folks have become. its like these folks who claim "i don't even own a tv" think its different to watch youtube all night. and worse still they seem to believe everything some douche-bag with a green screen, whiteboard, or some such make it look cool backdrop spews online. its really turned into a internet thunderdome of recycled ideas no one bothers to double check for validity. and when you fail you can really count on only getting to read a few things. the courts are corrupt and don't follow the law. or its your fault because you did it wrong. or you are winning and you need a few more forests of toilet-paper to complete the process. those are the big three. you will read them all the time. and its echo chamber bullshit and it needs to stop. i was heavily involved in the freeman movement. i still have many friends heavily involved and thats fine. but when are they going to start stepping up and ending the bad ideas immediately when they see them? how can they sit there day after day letting folks injure themselves and say nothing? how come no idea beyond the odd get together to pat each other on the back ever goes anywhere? i will tell you why. no freeking balls and not much care for the well being of their peers. they are throwing drowning men an anchor and doing it with a smile on their face. the anchor will help, just gotta hold on to it longer..... really many should be absolutely ashamed of themselves for promoting ideas with no chance of success and no fair warning. and that's really damn greasy. now if you are well aware of the risks and are trying something for a moral reason don't whine at the fail you know is coming. doing things for moral reasons is a form of protest. anyone who protests with any kind of frequency has to expect fines and the odd week or two in the big house. getting arrested recording in a courtroom or yelling at a cop who busted you with no insurance doesn't make you no rosa parks. just a run of the mill pain in the ass with a loud mouth and too much printer ink. page after page of something a cop did wrong and about never a post where a cop or government type did something right or helpful. that never fits the narrative. and its complete one sided bullshit. it does not further any cause and often causes animosity where there should be none. but i guess thats hard to hear when your busy yelling me me me ME ME ME!!!

now it would be a little hypocritical of me to go on this rant without at least making an attempt to help people find their feet a little right? lets face it, that's what virtually the entire opca, sovcit, freeman, etc. movements do. bitch and whine and never offer up a solution that might actually have a chance of even partial success in the real world. never take some time to think for yourself and attempt to figure out what the goal actually is and how to make the entirety of the world a tiny bit of a better place for you having been there. personally i have some suggestions and ideas that have a fairly high incidence of success and check out proper in the 'does it work in the real world' part of your check.

our old nemesis, the law ain't going anywhere. as much as one might dislike it your going to have to get over yourself and learn to live with it. or figure out how to work the system to change certain laws or aspects of them FOR EVERYONE and enjoy frow there the benefits of those actions yourself. if you are honestly trying to get to know the law without spending the bundle on actually attending law school there are some fairly accessible ways to do this. first you can start going to go watch court. yup, get up in the morning and head on down to the old court house and watch. listen. if you don't know what something means remember it or write it down. then ask one of the lawyers or duty councilors loitering abouts the courthouse on break. you can learn a lot from folks who actually had the opportunity to attend law school. this i have found a far better route than deliberately getting a ticket as some dummy's may suggest to get in court experience. family, criminal, civil, traffic---- all fun to go watch if you actually pay attention. maybe if your lucky theirs a good case and if you have time follow it through all its appearances. thats learning from the masters and its completely free. and many courthouses have a little library. this is also a great resource. this type of top shelf learning equipment is free. next when your on line open youtube. play a good music playlist then open another tab. from there look up canlii or whatever else gets you for real court cases to read. once you figure out the search you can read some damn nifty cases. look up any word or phrase you dont know. now your on your way to some decent learning. and if you want to read the law go to the actual laws from the actual government. who gives a rats beefy behind wtf some layman has to say about it? in the real world their opine matters not. what the fancy pants on youtube spouts is irrelevant. most of them do not practice what they preach and never will. to them its a game of hold the audience until they tip ya or stroke your ego. to you its your real actual life. are you really going to put the legal aspects of your life into the hands of gurus who often dont even know what country they are in, legally speaking? and ffs put the bible away. it has nothing to do with modern law. anyone who claims it does is really a moron. further anyone who claims the the bar is an acronym is a moron and as soon as they say it you should stop reading or listening to them. they are full of shit and even they know it. anyone who says you can arrest the judge is wrong and they know it. anyone who says the fringe on the flag has any relevance to your case (or any other) is a poop douche with no mind. i could go on but really think it through. if its not the way the world works in general, its almost always bullshit. do your own research does not mean read someone else's youtube playlist or current incoherent internet video with many legal sounding words. and i really do mean when you find someone promoting or saying or making claim that something you know to be wrong is correct. stop confusing yourself by listening to or reading one more word from them. many confuse countries and types of law and applicability of things and even when its pointed out they dont quit spouting it as they might have to retool the scheme as they fantasize it. and if you are in real trouble do not hesitate to get proper representation. or at least use a decent lawyer as a second. personally i always ask to speak in court. but i know the proper order to get things done in a timely fashion with your own best interest in mind is to use proper representation. and your head. ask questions. you have every right to understand any proceeding in which you are involved. just don't be an idiot. no matter what some white board legal lord yells at you from his youtube channel.

more to come. sorting my frustration with things in my head and trying to put it in a frame that will be helpful to good folks who want decent change and progress with like minded folks. and hopefully get through to some before they get lost in the rabbit hole and harm themselves, family and friends through bad ideas and self centered ego maniacs.

brb,
peace.
ninj

[wserra]

Damn. But why are you holding back, ninj? Tell us what you really think.

[bmxninja357]

now i guess i should talk about all the good ideas that everyone needs to donate to. stop it. i have yet to see near any of it work. in over ten years of heavy involvement in one of the movements {all opca, freeman, sovcit type things im going to simply call the movement} i can say i can name in the double digits of great plans that require some money to get it going. however i am very hard pressed to name any that have had any success. the general routine from all the "i don't want to be the leader" leaders is to come up with some feasible sounding idea (often recycled or plagiarized) get everyone on board. maybe make a little video with some nice stock footage. get a ringer or perhaps a alternate account and blow some smoke up the ideas arse. still play the im not in charge card. gotta do that for the appearance of honesty. when there is sufficient smoke blown up your ideas arse and enough suggestions from whatever alt account and yes men volunteer to take charge of the project. this is the movements Hegelian dialectic. create the project. make it unmanageable by anyone else but the creator. this is easy as you never tell anyone the entirety of the plan so its really impossible for anyone else to manage an idea that you only have an end goal of. then collect the donations. maybe take a couple road trips, ya know, for research. set up and blame someone else, either real or fictional for the plans failure. stay quiet for a bit. then come up with another pay to play utopian pipe dream. or made up legal battle about some irrelevant thing no one can claim victory on. yup, it looks like much of it is a rip off. straight up. now there are some folks who actually are trying but the sad reality is if you based your idea on good intentions and no working real world knowledge it is going to fail every time. its sad how many have been turned off by the repetitiveness of these shenanigans.

now to be quite frank i do think im one of the better examples of how to try to get as far from the system as i think one can in the current real world without harming myself or those around me. there are certain things one needs to enjoy a good quality of life without sacrificing ones morals any further than necessary.

for example my rent had more than doubled in less than a year and the landlord was making living where i had lived for a few years intolerable. they were evicting everyone and selling the suites as condos. (before rent controls in alberta) so we rented a old house. it was owned by one in the mayors office as were 6 or 7 houses on one little stretch of road. well the town magically claimed they were going to widen a 3 block stretch to put planters in the median and sold all the houses owned by council members on that stretch to the province at peak market. then they tore them down and.... then cancelled the plan. nice scam but i was sick of moving. so i bought a van, moved into it and have lived in vans and motorhomes ever since. i think its the best damn thing i have ever done. its been about 10 years or so since i paid rent or any of those things that come with permanent dwellings.

and with that move my address became a postal box. no power bill. no water bill. no property tax. no none of those things that make life an expensive pain in the ass. and being as how many in the movement are single or a couple theres nothing stopping them from doing the same thing. and the size of the motorhome you live in really determines if you can have kids with you or not. many home school so for those folks with one or maybe two kids this way is completely feasible. but you will need a drivers license insurance and registration. boo hoo. wah sniff. i dont want those things. well to bad.its really a small sacrifice for the freedom of living wherever you like and life being less expensive. its a good project for movement minded people because none of your money goes to property tax. no one bangs on your door to do the census. pay as you go phone. and your as off grid as a city person needs to be. and really i dont need the bs talk of people cant live that way or its cold in winter and crap. i wear a tshirt inside in the winter. its plenty warm. thats what the furnace is for, like in a normal house. and people save their whole life to retire to a motorhome and do whatever. go where ever. and live free. why wait? you can actually do that right now. why wait until your a senior?

but what more could this have to do with the movement? a lot. what happens when you get a few folks living this way? lets say five units. you can all park by each other down at the Walmart or whatever spots you have. if everyone watches out for each other theres added safety for everyone. and if everyone chips in you only need one larger generator. provided no one is a power hog everyone can use the same generator.so the costs just went down. what if all these folks ponied up just a little for food? there could be one big meal every night for everyone. and folks could go to each others places and eat and socialize with other like minded off grid folk. and im not done yet. get a family pass or group rate at the local pool or rec center and theres the showers in winter, a hang out with internet, a safe environment and even a place to get in shape.

and thats how folks could start getting off grid, being self sufficient. and since you have a s.i.n. weather you like it or not why not use the local temporary job place. cash paid daily. or if you find more permanent employ or a few weeks work wherever you can take your house to work. heck my job pays me to stay on site so quite often i make more than enough to live just by parking in the right spot.

it also makes it easy if everyone intends to support folks in court if things get drawn out or any other movement based protest or gathering. your never far from home.

and then what if everyone chipped in just a bit and bought a couple acres of land? a lot of the freeman stuff never worked bcause if your going to stay in one spot you need to own the land. not individually, but collectively. then you can make up your rules and begin a community of like minded housed, fed and employed folks. wow . a working plan for a freeman type community without much problem at all. and if your couple acres are bought in a good spot you can even play at council metings and maybe make a buck if the land goes up in value.

but i digress. this is a working plan with a 10 year prototype in place. its guaranteed to work unless folks in the movement are incapable of working together to eventually achieve a higher sense of freedom all could enjoy. and i guess they would sooner give away money to gurus than actually bother trying to do things right.

sorry for the rant to the forum regulars. i just had to vent. i will probably add to this later but im tired and grumpy so im just going to bed.

peace,
ninj

[Judge Roy Bean]

Ninj, I've said this or something similar to it in the past, but I think it bears revisiting.

Do you remember enough of your early childhood to recall the fantasy/role play things you did - in the pre-computer days? I think most visitor/posters here are old enough. I know I am. I remember when pieces of candy gave you a super-power; the hatch-door in the hay loft was the entrance to a witches' lair; an empty metal ammo-box was an atomic bomb, especially if you put a loud-ticking alarm clock in it; the right pine cone was an excellent grenade; saying the right word or phrase while waving a magic wand opened a portal, etc. etc..

What all of these fantasies required was that some, or at least most, of the kids would go along with them. If they didn't, depending on the pecking order of the realm, they either ran the scenario and you went along or they went along with yours' and the group if they wanted to play. The rules got made up as things went along and most of the time when everybody was going along with it you started to think and act "in character."

Call it "group-think" if you want. The sov-cit/opca folks are participating in what amounts to be an adult fantasy role-playing game. The problem is the game may eventually bump up against the real world and one or more of the players involved seems dismayed that the game isn't being played the way it's supposed to be played.

When the magic spell incantations don't work any more, the now-victim finds it hard to admit they've been involved in what amounts to be a child's pastime. The embarrassment doesn't exist among their teammates so they gravitate back to them for moral support.

Some people just never grow up.

[The Observer]

Ninj, your plan unfortunately depends on the goodwill and steadfastness of people who realize that cooperation among the participants to make your verision of "off-the-grid" to work. And that is where it falls apart when you get the likes of Dean Clifford, Robert Menard, Parakeet Bellanger and the other idiotic freemen involved. They are not going to cooperate, sacrifice or give of their time, effort and money to make your plan work. They will only participate to the point where they see themselves getting a benefit and not having to contribute. And, oh yeah, they would have to be in charge of the community. Because no one else knows better than they on how to run a kingdom - in their mind.

Why? This is how they behave throughout their life and interactions with others. They are only thinking of themselves and have no motivation or sense of duty in trying to be a contributor to the society that benefits them. They will always be the first rats off the sinking ship when a sovrun commune starts to fall apart - after they have sucked everything out of it that they can.

[AndyK]

Remember, all animals are equal, except the pigs which are more equal than the others.

[arayder]

I know I am repeating myself when I say I think one of the worst problems we North Americans have is our buy in to a consumer society in which we think we have to have the latest thing and are willing to go into debt to get it.

The result is that our economies rely on the banks to get cheap money ("consumers" suffer when it dries up) and when we are done consuming we have polluted the heck out of the planet, stressed our families and sucked up a load of pills and booze as self medication.

Having said that I think ninj is on the right track.

I can't count the times I have winced in pain at seeing a friend or neighbor with a mortgage or two, a couple of car loans and a massive credit card debt.

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Dope Clock: It has been 95 days since freeman guru Robert Menard promised to bring legal actions to secure precedent setting judgments. So far there is no documentation of a single legal action by Menard.

[The Observer]

The massive credit card debt is the real demon in that mix, since it usually goes for perishable items or services and adds no real asset wealth to the consumer's portfolio. A house loan, while being a heavy load, is at least creating some sort of nest egg for the future if the borrower can afford to make the payments. 2 or more car loans don't really help since most cars do not hold their value, but again, there is least the practicality of having transportation - unless you live in area where there is excellent rapid transit.

But the ability to secure credit for instant gratification purchases is one of the illusionary ways that people can think they think they are keeping up with the Joneses. And I imagine it fuels the imaginations, suspicions and paranoia of the sovrun who either sinks their whole future into consumer debt or if they have already ruined their credit rating, are on the outside looking in.

[bmxninja357]

sorry i have been slow to reply. the girl im seeing is very sick so time and my motivation and energy to concern my self with other things is not there very often right now.

Ninj, your plan unfortunately depends on the goodwill and steadfastness of people who realize that cooperation among the participants to make your version of "off-the-grid" to work....
They will only participate to the point where they see themselves getting a benefit and not having to contribute.

you are correct. its like herding cats trying to get anything working. the mistake is many thinking they are free from effort and responsibility for making things work. and that's not how freedom works. it takes some effort to actually get something together. i tend to put forward plans that if attempted have a reasonable chance of success. really i work to live. i work as little as possible. yet i have been called a workaholic by employers. the faster and longer i can do the job the more i make. i have a 3 to 6 week window to work in the spring and fall. and i really don't want to work any other time. but thinking ahead i rigged my life to be more than liveable. i don't see why others cant put a little effort in. hell in Edmonton i know a girl who hates working and loves being outside. she has a snow shovel, a lawn mower, a broom and a weed wacker. lives in low rent in the skids. but when it snows hard its not uncommon for her to pull a thousand bucks tax free. i only bring this up to show an example of how simple it is to actually be as free as you can in a modern society without resorting to fantasy or criminal activity or my favorite, just giving up and blaming everyone but themselves.

and you know its bad when you think i attempted to arrange the soup project as both a good deed for our communities and good promotion and a positive light on the freeman community. and as a bonus with no permits or such we would get a chance to test whatever legal defense we wanted for validity when we get busted for doing good deeds. (i find feeding your fellow man a right not a privilege. its a moral thing for me.) from the freeman community i had no one really committed to help in any way. in fact the more selfish spoke against it as to why we shouldn't do such things. i could go on but whats the point. heck i had 4 heroin dealers ask if they could help when its started. that really made me question who i was trying to work with in the movement.

and getting contributions in time and energy is next to impossible. never mind money. not many have any and those that do don't tell anyone. there is a few i know that own businesses but they never ever mention it. i have been told by more than one they dont need the grief of having their businesses watched or getting begged for jobs (which the free generally wont do properly) or asked for money and such. cant blame them.

will continue this rant later. my ranting time is limited.

peace,
ninj

[grixit]

I wonder if you could get the sov types to make stone soup?

[The Observer]

I wonder if you could get the sov types to make stone soup?

No, they would never willingly give up that piece of rock between their ears.

[arayder]

From its very start freemanism has been about denying responsibility for anything to do with the common good.

If you want help with starting a soup kitchen, talk to your local church.

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Dope Clock: It has been 100 days since freeman guru Robert Menard promised to bring legal actions to secure precedent setting judgments. So far there is no documentation of a single legal action by Menard.

[notorial dissent]

From its very start freemanism has been about denying responsibility for anything to do with the common good.

If you want help with starting a soup kitchen, talk to your local church.

-------
Dope Clock: It has been 100 days since freeman guru Robert Menard promised to bring legal actions to secure precedent setting judgments. So far there is no documentation of a single legal action by Menard.

NOT ONLY responsibility to/for the common good, but for themselves as well, I mean how often do you see any of them taking responsibility for their own actions or selves???? it's always someone elses responsibility/fault, NEVER theirs.

[littleFred]

In the UK (and elsewhere, as far as I can see) freemanism/SovCittery/GOOFyism is currently about having zero personal responsibility. It is someone else's responsibility to provide the freeman with housing, food, energy, public services, anything they buy with a credit card, and everything else.

A few years ago, some people in the UK movement did advocate personal responsibility, honouring contracts, and generally not being a drain on society. Perhaps some people (like the hecklers in Ceylon's recent video from 49 mins onwards) still feel that way. But moderate voices are drowned by the shrieks of Ceylon, Crawford, Taylor and the rest.

[arayder]

I was really trying to point out that, at least for the goals ninja was talking about (an independent community and a soup kitchen) IMHO one needs people suited to the tasks involved and willing to accept and get along with others, rather than folks with a strict set of political or social philosophies.

If you go to a church food pantry for the needy you will probably see folks with all sorts of political beliefs. But the food pantry works because the folks running it agree to a few simple practices (feed every needy person without regard for race, religion, show up on time and work hard, etc. etc.)

With the exception of ninjas hope that the "like minded" join his independent group, I don't see why his effort couldn't be that different from the soup kitchen I mentioned above in the breaths of its individual's beliefs. Folks would have to agree to work and respect others and their differences. That way anarcho-libertarians, survivalists, ex-hippies, etc. could all work and live in the group. I would think it would be better to have independent, hard working, knowledgable people who can get along with others rather than freeman philosophers who sit in their vans and all day posting on their Facebook page about the cop shooting in the news or the latest case of government corruption.

I would think the biggest problem would be truly independent individuals leaving the group after encountering the inevitable hassles of group living. . .like some guy messing with another guy's girl or showing up drunk for a mutually agreed upon work detail. I could envision a person in the group who knows how to do just about everything needed deciding to leave after seeing a couple of guys get into it over one of them putting his hands all over the others guy's girl.

What does such an independent person need with the folks who don't work and cause trouble in their all too frequent off hours?

In the end I could see it all coming down to a few good, trust worthy friends living communally.

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Dope Clock: It has been 101 days since freeman guru Robert Menard promised to bring legal actions to secure precedent setting judgments. So far there is no documentation of a single legal action by Menard.

[eric]

I might suggest that these Canadian FMOTL types who wish to form their own communities move to the Upper Ottawa Valley around Bancroft or Barry's Bay to learn from the masters of communal living. There are still some communes left over from the sixties and seventies, plus an assortment of independant minded folk who, although they have regular jobs, still follow the tenets of the back to the land movement. They might be surprised at how hard working these aging "hippies" are and likewise law abiding - they just want to be left alone. In fact, one of the major communes, has as one of their basic rules that all members must work at least 4 hours per day on a communal project, even though they might have their own seperate dwelling and little plot of land.

[arayder]

I might suggest that these Canadian FMOTL types who wish to form their own communities move to the Upper Ottawa Valley around Bancroft or Barry's Bay to learn from the masters of communal living. There are still some communes left over from the sixties and seventies, plus an assortment of independant minded folk who, although they have regular jobs, still follow the tenets of the back to the land movement. . .

This brings to mind the seemingly competing schools of freeman thought.

One says that cashing in on one's birth bond would allow freemen to pursue their life dreams while a hefty income rolls in from the state. One could only await in awe the creation of Eiffel Tower replicas made from Moosehead empties.

The other says that freemen need to go off the grid, create their own freemanlands and get as far away from government as they can. This option is probably more realistic, but requires that freemen give a nod to land title and land use laws as they exist in the real world.

I suspect the reality is neither for most freemen, especially for the ever dwindling ranks of keyboard warrior/gurus who, unlike the admirable ninja, only talk the talk.

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Dope Clock: It has been 101 days since freeman guru Robert Menard promised to bring legal actions to secure precedent setting judgments. So far there is no documentation of a single legal action by Menard.

[notorial dissent]

Of the two options, ONE is totally unrealistic simply because it is pure sovcit fantasy. Two is the actual answer, except for the actual hard work or work at all part, since the modern practitioners for the most part seem to want to skip that step altogether, it infringes on their oneness with the universe or some such nonsense. There is a term for these types that escapes me for the moment.

[arayder]

A few years ago the idea was floated that freemen could simply annex federal lands the same way some they thought they could cash in on their "birth bonds". When it came to freeman valley the leader of the freeman movement pretended he was going to do just that. But like so many of his schemes he just didn't have the smarts or the balls to follow through.

It was left to a few impressionable Alberta freemen to try out this bad idea while their so called leader hid away somewhere.

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Dope Clock: It has been 102 days since freeman guru Robert Menard promised to bring legal actions to secure precedent setting judgments. So far there is no documentation of a single legal action by Menard.

[notorial dissent]

A prime example of leading from behind.