Losing Your Home, Crawford Style

[Bungle]

Looks as if Tom is searching for loopholes:


https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/ ... ne_working

Dear Ministry of Justice,

Could you please clarify the relationship between the possession claims online office and the County Court.

1. Once a claim has been submitted and accepted by PCOL office do they notify the local County Court that is involved that the claim has been submitted and accepted.

2. Does the PCOL office send to the County Court a receipt of the payment fee that they received from the claimant so it can be lodged in the County Court file and recorded electronically on the Casement file.

3. Does the PCOL office send to the County Court a copy of the notice of issue so it can be lodged in the County Court file and recorded electronically on the Casement file.

4. Does the PCOL office send the claimant a receipt of the County Court claim fee.

5. Does the PCOL office pay income tax and VAT on monies taken through court fees.

6. Is there any other government or private office that holds financial transactions by PCOL.

7. What date did the identity number or password that this placed on the claim form for the claimant and defendant to keep track of the court procedure start to be used on the document.

Yours faithfully,

T Crawford

Tom's been awfully quiet since receiving the Ministry of Justice's reply:

Dear T Crawford



Thank you for your email of 4 October, which has been passed to HM Courts
& Tribunals Service (HMCTS) to respond as the agency responsible for the
administration of the courts in England and Wales. I am sorry for the
delay in replying to you.


Your enquiry did not fall under the Freedom of Information regime and was
treated by the department as 'Official Correspondence'. It may be helpful
if I explain that the Freedom of Information Act (2000) gives individuals
and organisations the right of access to all types of recorded information
held, at the time the request is received, by public authorities such as
the Ministry of Justice (MoJ). Section 84 of the Act states that in
order for a request for information to be handled as a Freedom of
Information (FOI) request, it must be for recorded information. For
example, a Freedom of Information request would be for a copy of a policy,
rather than an explanation as to why we have that policy in place. On
occasion, the Ministry of Justice receives requests that do not ask for
recorded information, but ask more general questions about, for example, a
policy, opinion or a decision.

Could you please clarify the relationship between the possession claims
online office and the County Court?



Possession Claims Online (PCOL) is an online service through which
landlords can issue claims for repossession of property for mortgage and
rental arrears. Claims submitted through PCOL are issued and assigned
directly to the court nearest to the property to be repossessed. The
County Court will administer the claim through to hearing and enforcement,
processing applications and orders as directed by the District Judge.


1. Once a claim has been submitted and accepted by PCOL office do they
notify the local County Court that is involved that the claim has been
submitted and accepted.



The PCOL application itself presents the claim to the local county court
and PCOL is then used by court staff to process the claim through to its
first hearing. If the case cannot be settled at that hearing, the case is
transferred from the PCOL system to the central case management
application for further hearings and action to be taken.


2. Does the PCOL office send to the County Court a receipt of the payment
fee that they received from the claimant so it can be lodged in the County
Court file and recorded electronically on the Casement file?


The PCOL system will confirm that payment has been taken and issue a
payment acknowledgment email. Separately confirmation of payment is also
issued to the HMCTS accounting team so they can reconcile the payment
against the transaction.


3. Does the PCOL office send to the County Court a copy of the notice of
issue so it can be lodged in the County Court file and recorded
electronically on the Casement file?


No, the notice of issue is sent to the claimant, the courts case
management system is updated with the claim details, the issue date and
the hearing date.


4. Does the PCOL office send the claimant a receipt of the County Court
claim fee?


For Direct Debit customers the claimant is sent an invoice with details of
the claims submitted and the fee required and the date the fee will be
taken from the claimants account. For credit and debit card payments the
system provides details of the claim, the claim number and the amount of
fee paid and the user is advised to print the page as confirmation of the
fee paid.


5. Does the PCOL office pay income tax and VAT on monies taken through
court fees?


No.


6. Is there any other government or private office that holds financial
transactions by PCOL.


Liberata, HMCTS’ accounting partner, hold details of all financial
transactions for PCOL.


7. What date did the identity number or password that this placed on the
claim form for the claimant and defendant to keep track of the court
procedure start to be used on the document?


PCOL went live in 2006.


Kind regards


Karen Hamilton

Customer Investigations Officer | HMCTS Customer Directorate

[Bungle]

And another one:

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/ ... ed_to_be_s

Dear Ministry of Justice,

CPR 2.6 states a claim form must be sealed could you clarify the following:

1) Will the court allowed a court case to continue if the claim form has not been sealed); and

2) Will that document be acceptable as a court document carrying the weight of law.

Practice directions 55B, 4.1 states that a step may only be taken using thePCOL on payment of the prescribed fee, it also states 5.1(a) a landlord against a tenant, solely on the grounds of arrears of rent (but not a claim for fortiteiture of lease); or

(b) a mortgagee against the mortgagor, solely on the ground of default on repayments of sums due under a mortgage.
This is directions to follow so could you please answer me the following.

3) Should a fee NOT! be paid for a possession claim online would the claim if started be null and void.

4) Should a fee be paid on a possession claim online for the default of payments under a mortgage, and the claim started by a mortgagee against a mortgagor and allowed to continue would this be an abuse of process); and

5) Would the claimant be allowed to prosper by an advantage over the defendant if obtained through abuse of process as in 3) and 4) above.

Yours faithfully,

T Crawford

Not a peep from him since this one either:

Dear T Crawford,

Thank you for your email, which has been passed to me to reply to as
official correspondence.


The rules regarding the sealing of a claim form are contained in CPR 2.6 -
[1]https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/proced...
the defendant in a matter should be served with a sealed claim form that
complies with this Civil Procedure Rule.

The Possession Claim Online (PCOL) system requires a fee to be paid at the
point of issue and as such no claim can be issued using that system unless
the fee is paid or a valid fee remission application is approved.


Yours sincerely,

Civil Business Improvement | Civil and Family Directorate

[notorial dissent]

Sounds a bit to me like Tom filed a request for what amounts to legal advice and general information and was advised on part of it.

Appears to me that the OCL office is an adjunct to the local courts system and just an electronic way of filing a claim to get in to the court, but that the claimant still ultimately has to go to court and prove that they have a valid claim. Tom apparently doesn't get that it is a part of the court system.

I don't think Tom got the answer he wanted, but I'm not altogether sure what it was he wanted, since he was trying to ask, in this case I think, apples against oranges.

[Bungle]

Tom's argument since the eviction has remained unchanged. He believes that the borrower did not pay a court fee when requesting the warrant. In Tom's mind, this can only mean one thing......the warrant was illegal and he should be able to get back his property (he forgets that there is still the small matter of a mortgage to repay).

If any one of use were to issue County Court proceedings, we would be expected to make payment to HMCTS. However, with mortgage companies, banks, pesky private parking companies etc, these organisations have Direct Debits facilities in place with HMCTS as outlined in their recent reply.

For Direct Debit customers the claimant is sent an invoice with details of the claims submitted and the fee required and the date the fee will be taken from the claimants account. For credit and debit card payments the system provides details of the claim, the claim number and the amount of fee paid and the user is advised to print the page as confirmation of the fee paid.

[AndyPandy]

The pcol system also states:

Direct Debit mandate

Use this facility to view and print the Direct Debit mandate form. You will need to complete and submit this form to the address provided in order to request payment of fees by direct debit. If authorised, your registration details will be updated and you will be notified that fees will be collected on a monthly basis from your nominated account for the transactions completed through the PCOL service.

Fairly standard, you apply for and set up an account if you're a frequent user of Court possession claim facilities - you pay monthly for all claims issued.

[doublelong]

The Possession Claim Online (PCOL) system requires a fee to be paid at the
point of issue and as such no claim can be issued using that system unless
the fee is paid or a valid fee remission application is approved.

Pretty much mirrors the comments from judge Godsmark in May 2015.
Crawford will not like that, but being the paranoid bunch they are they will still cry foul.

[letissier14]

Posted over on EFOTB

Looks like someone will be losing their home shortly if they continue down this road of nonsense

[Bungle]

Another daft individual who seems to think that posting on those Facebook pages will remain confidential.

[longdog]

A pound to a pinch of shit says that if they do say "Yes... We have the original loan agreement signed by you" there will be another unilateral condition before they make payment and ever onward with the conditions becoming ever more ludicrous.

Apart from anything else who, other than very occasionally when they are between bank accounts, pays their mortgage over the phone? I'm guessing Darron is already behind on his payments and is just looking for the right woo to get him out of paying at all... Whilst keeping the house of course...

[exiledscouser]

Letissier - thanks for this post from which I take perverse pleasure at how a little knowledge can feck things up.

Much appreciated!

[Gregg]

Offering to make payment but only on conditions not contained in the original agreement is not an offer of payment, its a proposal to renegotiate. The bank is free to say "umm, nope" to this. You agreed to make the payments without having to be shown the note every month, and the fact that you did for the first X years is pretty good evidence that you thought so yourself. So go ahead and withhold payment until they foreclose, which they will eventually even if they don't have the original note. In the US and I assume the UK has some similar register, all liens on land are recorded at the county, and until you can prove you have satisfied that lien (which does bear your signature) the lender has the right to kick you off when you try to practice law from what you learned on the internet.

[SoLongCeylon]

Letissier - thanks for this post from which I take perverse pleasure at how a little knowledge can feck things up.

Half way down the screen shot was a picture of the prize knob Simon Goldberg of WhiteRabbit. He is well into the nonsense of " I will repay the debt if you give me back the original signed agreement".

Anyway, he put up a couple of videos showing him ringing the Birmingham Midshires on behalf of someone, asking for the original mortgage deed back and if they couldn't do that then why should they pay any more interest or even repay the original loan. The videos were only showing his initial conversations and never the conclusion.

Perhaps there wasn't a conclusion because I am in contact with someone who has a particular dislike for what Goldberg does, and this person rang Birmingham Midshires, got through to the employee who Goldberg was speaking to on the video and happily informed them of what Goldberg is all about and what his youtube channels were. The Birmingham Midshires were very grateful for tip off and have hopefully told Goldberg to F*** Off.

[exiledscouser]

Saw the White Rabbit video.

What amuses me is their insistence that there have been 'big wins' and wholly successful 'class actions' but due to non-disclosure provisions within these tremendous victories non of the winners can tell anyone about them.

Well thankfully we don't actually live in a John Grisham novel and if any of these twats had won anything at all they'd be blabbing away on social media, gagging order or not. They're none of them the sort to have taken the dosh and gone quietly into the night.

[notorial dissent]

EXCEPT, UK doesn't do class action suits as I understand, and otherwise law suit results if reaching judgment, are public record. Settlements, a whole other matter. This is the same nonsense that US tax gurus used to use to claim wins that were then sealed by the courts. DOESN'T HAPPEN!!!!

[rumpelstilzchen]

Well, the White Rabbit didn't manage to get a "big win". While he was advising other people that their mortgages were fraudulent it turned out that he was making payments on his own mortgage.

[doublelong]

I just don't understand how someone can be so deluded
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWaOYF489as

[Firthy2002]

He has to keep up the lie that he is winning and on the verge of beating the system, even though the rest of us know he lost the game over a year ago.

[Bones]

I just don't understand how someone can be so deluded
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWaOYF489as

Sorry Tom, this is the smallest violin I could find



As Craig has previously confirmed that the dog was due to be put down the next day, Tom should have taken the Baliffs up on their offer to do it that day - would have saved him a few quid.

He tries to skip over it now but is he actually admiting that he LOST the Godsmark case now ?

[AndyPandy]

I just don't understand how someone can be so deluded
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWaOYF489as

Amanda at her finest - how may adjectives can you get into one sentence - quite a few if you don't use full stops (or a spell checker) !!

As ever Trolls trolls every where over my fathers videos, like dreadfully malignant cretins, each one a nefarious sock-sucking mass of neuroses and complexes, grievously blighted microphallus and a horribly atrocious mucous-eating plot-less melodrama of uneventful life to be so concerned for over 2 years now with us hahaha all because they think they know better in my familys appauling treatment and the theft of our home, for some reason they belive they have an effect on us and are stopping my father from telling the world our story, they lie constantly and the bile slips out of their obsessed and repugnant lips like regurgitated faeces. None remotely interested in the truth or to keep up with the facts, repeating the same old tosh over and over and over spreading their codswhollop like magot infested tripe. Isn't it also strange Americans who have in interest in property investment seem so interested in my Father so many many miles away too, He's international yay! These trolls, naysayers and quite frankly losers in life are woefully primitive and dull/dim-witted.I pity them really as sadly they have no knowledge of just how much of a blight upon society they are, and so continue their useless and quite honestly hilarious crusade and cant help themselves but bang on in the vain hope that anyone remotely cares or is interested, sadly as ignominious as each one is, they keep us entertainied in their indignity and high level of intellectual constipation. They forget that for the most part the public see and have heard the facts and truth so they are nothing but mind numbing. These salacious prostitutes for banks, bent solicitors and jurdicary are as transparent as cling flim. So keep it up you thick-headed acrid smog of oppressively caustic oral effluvium you do nothing bar make us laugh at you!

[rumpelstilzchen]

Amanda wrote:

for some reason they belive they have an effect on us

When you examine the content of the post which included the above quote I would say Amanda is definitely being affected.