Random Freemanesque Babblings from idiots unable to sustain their own thread

[TheCoz]

DD clawbacks are currently the "in thing" over on BTBATB Facebook group. The problem is 99% of the time they work, you get your money back, it's in your bank and the freetards scream "WIN!!!1!11!!!".

There's never any follow up, I'm glad this person has posted and I hope Blackhorse follows through with court. Might make some of them think twice before committing fraud.

I just don't understand the logic of; I got a car from this company, I've paid £6k in monthly instalments for said car. The agreement isn't real/legal/signed in the blood of the firstborn/sealed by the queen herself, Therefore, I get to keep the car, get all my money back and they can't pursue me because magic words.

[JimUk1]

http://www.getoutofdebtfree.org/forum/v ... KWQCDzfXYU

Personally, I don't believe Tiggy should be encouraging people to simply try and evade/avoid their debts.

I also think getting people to apply for unless orders is actually making "the system" money, contrary to the whole purpose of that site.

I find tiggy a bit morally bankrupt.

[notorial dissent]

http://www.getoutofdebtfree.org/forum/v ... KWQCDzfXYU

Personally, I don't believe Tiggy should be encouraging people to simply try and evade/avoid their debts.

I also think getting people to apply for unless orders is actually making "the system" money, contrary to the whole purpose of that site.

I find tiggy a bit morally bankrupt.

Ya think????

[AndyPandy]

http://www.getoutofdebtfree.org/forum/v ... KWQCDzfXYU

Personally, I don't believe Tiggy should be encouraging people to simply try and evade/avoid their debts.

I also think getting people to apply for unless orders is actually making "the system" money, contrary to the whole purpose of that site.

I find tiggy a bit morally bankrupt.

As opposed to debt purchasers who buy up these debts in their thousands for less than 10% of their face value but chase debtors for the full amount for the massive benefit of very few shareholders, surely that's the morally bankrupt part in the 'debt industry'?

[littleFred]

As opposed to debt purchasers who buy up these debts in their thousands for less than 10% of their face value but chase debtors for the full amount for the massive benefit of very few shareholders, surely that's the morally bankrupt part in the 'debt industry'?

Which part of that is bad? Chasing up bad debts costs money. Only a small proportion of them will eventually pay up. I don't know what the profit margins are, but I'd be surprised if they are as high as 20%.

Would any percentage of face value make the business acceptable?

Perhaps debts should not be transferable assets. But why not? Modern money is all about transferring debt. The bank owes me money (aka "I have money in the bank"), and when I swipe my card at the supermarket, I transfer parts of the bank's debt to me, to the supermarket. Is this "morally bankrupt"?

[longdog]

As opposed to debt purchasers who buy up these debts in their thousands for less than 10% of their face value but chase debtors for the full amount for the massive benefit of very few shareholders, surely that's the morally bankrupt part in the 'debt industry'?

You've missed out a very important word. It should read "As opposed to debt purchasers who buy up these BAD debts in their thousands for less than 10% of their face value..."

I don't really see how a business which buys up bad debts and makes its money from being able to collect the entire amount owed on a percentage of those debts, a part of the amount owed on others and having to write off the remainder as non-collectable is any more "morally bankrupt" than the original creditors.

If I owed you £1000 and you sold the debt for £100 how am I disadvantaged by the buyer of the debt insisting on payment of the full £1000?

[Philistine]

Personally, I don't believe Tiggy should be encouraging people to simply try and evade/avoid their debts.

I also think getting people to apply for unless orders is actually making "the system" money, contrary to the whole purpose of that site.

I find tiggy a bit morally bankrupt.

As opposed to debt purchasers who buy up these debts in their thousands for less than 10% of their face value but chase debtors for the full amount for the massive benefit of very few shareholders, surely that's the morally bankrupt part in the 'debt industry'?

This is a tu quoque logical fallacy even if it were true.
You unethically took money so I should be able to steal money!

[TheCoz]

http://www.getoutofdebtfree.org/forum/v ... KWQCDzfXYU

Personally, I don't believe Tiggy should be encouraging people to simply try and evade/avoid their debts.

I also think getting people to apply for unless orders is actually making "the system" money, contrary to the whole purpose of that site.

I find tiggy a bit morally bankrupt.

As opposed to debt purchasers who buy up these debts in their thousands for less than 10% of their face value but chase debtors for the full amount for the massive benefit of very few shareholders, surely that's the morally bankrupt part in the 'debt industry'?

I used to work for a debt purchaser and trust me, if they are buying at 10% it is a very, very bad portfolio with little information, bad addresses and debtors who have no intention of paying even if you find them. The costs associated with finding these people, letters, staffing, phone calls etc adds up very quickly.

Not paying back what you contractually agreed to is morally bankrupt.

[AndyPandy]

Not paying back to whom, I agree that not paying back to the original lender is - but to debt purchasers - who chase for the full amount, you don't agree that's morally bankrupt - not paying the full amount for a debt but wanting the full amount repaying, which benefits just a few shareholders?

They lend nothing.

[NYGman]

A debt is a debt. It has value as such. Buying and selling a debt for more or less than face is not a moral or ethical question. It is simple finance and business. Not paying the debt is the problem here. While I have sympathies for those in financial straights not due to their own making, those that do a DD, or simply refuse to pay because they read it on the internet, are morally bankrupt.

[TheCoz]

Not paying back to whom, I agree that not paying back to the original lender is - but to debt purchasers - who chase for the full amount, you don't agree that's morally bankrupt - not paying the full amount for a debt but wanting the full amount repaying, which benefits just a few shareholders?

They lend nothing.

I don't agree. They exist because they specialise in collecting debt and people don't pay what they owe. They are a business trying to make a profit just like every other business. Most of the time they offer settlements, most of the debt is uncollectable. They have staff to pay and buildings to run.

Is it morally bankrupt to buy a house for £100k, Put £20k into a sell for £140k?

If people paid back what they agreed to this industry wouldn't exist.

[AndyPandy]

A. Buying and selling a debt for more or less than face is not a moral or ethical question. It is simple finance and business. .

So you don't believe business and finance should have either a moral or ethical attitude?

[NYGman]

A. Buying and selling a debt for more or less than face is not a moral or ethical question. It is simple finance and business. .

So you don't believe business and finance should have either a moral or ethical attitude?

They isn't what I said, business need to operate morally and ethically. However, buying, selling, and even collection on a valid debt is just business. Think you may have issues with unscrupulous lenders, there I would agree with you.

However a valid debt is just an asset and there is nothing ethical or moral about trading debt.

[longdog]

Buying and selling bad debt is no more morally bankrupt than buying and selling used cars. You buy debts at £X and hope to recover £X+Y% or you buy cars at £X and hope to sell at £X+Y%. What's the difference?

[JimUk1]

So long as the debtor doesn't foot any extra for sold on debt, I don't really see what the issue is.

In some cases it could be better if the account is closed and sold on, rather than struggling to pay the monthly minimum- interest on credit cards for instance can be a real killer.

[littleFred]

There is, of course, a view that original creditors who sell at a discount to debt collectors should, instead, sell to the debtor at the same discount. Debtors should have the right to "buy" their own debts for 10%.

Perhaps AndyPandy has that view.

But this is a moral hazard. Anyone could then say, "I won't pay my debt until it is discounted to 10%". It would reward people (and companies) for not paying bills when they become due.

[TheCoz]

There is, of course, a view that original creditors who sell at a discount to debt collectors should, instead, sell to the debtor at the same discount. Debtors should have the right to "buy" their own debts for 10%.

Perhaps AndyPandy has that view.

But this is a moral hazard. Anyone could then say, "I won't pay my debt until it is discounted to 10%". It would reward people (and companies) for not paying bills when they become due.

People are already doing this knowing that most DCA's will offer a settlement or reduced instalments without interest. I know some companies suggest to debtors to wait for them to be passed over.

The only thing stopping people doing this is the dreaded credit score, but with more and more companies overlooking bad credit ratings, it will become commonplace.

[rumpelstilzchen]

There is, of course, a view that original creditors who sell at a discount to debt collectors should, instead, sell to the debtor at the same discount. Debtors should have the right to "buy" their own debts for 10%.

But the debtor has shown that they have been incapable of making the monthly payment for some time. If they can't afford the monthly payment they can't afford to pay the debt discounted by 90%.

[Gregg]

I know some companies suggest to debtors to wait for them to be passed over.

The only thing stopping people doing this is the dreaded credit score, but with more and more companies overlooking bad credit ratings, it will become commonplace.

Eventually it will lead to more and more companies getting very attentive to credit scores.

[bmxninja357]

its better to have bad credit than no credit. bad credit proves your sucker enough to buy things you cant afford. (no offense intended) and the money is made on interest not principal. i had an unpaid student loan, a small one i have played with for years. it no longer has anything to do with my credit rating. im pretty sure of that as i put a sum in the same bank that furnished my student loan. i expected it may go missing. but nope. i have blocked or dealt with 3 to 5 different debt collection agencies one actually filing a lean on..... a 1982 toyota. lol. it sold for scrap after driving it for 3 years.

i now get offers for credit cards regularly despite having asked them to not call me. i get offers for a ridiculously large line of credit. and have been offered low interest loans to buy a house. all real offers. most from the bank i never paid back. so im not sure credit rating agencies are a legit operation. im not saying they are not legal. im saying their opinion aint worth spit. i get these offers which i consider ridiculous as im not even employed full time. im seasonal. i may make good money when i do work but it is not consistent and i doubt most here could live on it due to the bills most have that i do not. and i have not filed taxes in several years. im thinking near 10. mind you when i do they owe me money. and im guessing 5 figures of it. (currently trying to file)

and for fun i mess with debt collectors quite often. i just use the fair trade act. if i cannot get a employee id number and employee license number allowing one to collect debts in the province of alberta they get told to kick rocks before i call the bbb and the police fraud unit. unlicensed collections are a form of extortion. and i have yet to hear from a properly licensed collector in alberta.

point being the concern with credit ratings is, well, over rated. particularly if you dont buy things you cant pay cash for.

peace,
ninj