"practical lawful dissent" fmotl advisory group

[longdog]

There are two documented principles of wrongness here...

1. "Not even wrong"... http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Not_even_wrong

and

2. "Fractal wrongness"... http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Fractal_wrongness

[exiledscouser]

Or more simply

Wrong: of the family Fail.

The scales are falling from Crab Bait's eyes. Another response from a Baron, this from Lord Napier scribbled at the bottom of Crabbie's own two page exercise in futility;

1. Lord Ashbournes petition failed.
2. Article 61 is not intended to protect those who break laws that are correctly created under our constitution.
3. I am no longer in the House of Lords.
4. Yesterday we had a general election, demonstrating the democratic nature of our constitution.
5. xxxxxxx

Another Rebbyl observes;

Tell u what m8 it ain't looking good at all is it?

Crabby replies;

Certainly not looking good mate, got 19 more letters out there let's see what happens by the end of this week.

No prizes for guessing the response. The noble Lord's missive garners another view from Gavin Briggs;

One mans word does not make the failure factual, without proof of claim it is nothing more than a personal opinion.

A bit like your own opinion, eh Gav? And most of the rest of them talking bollocks from their bedrooms.

Still, the clueless Connor, David's 2ic in his absence is hugely ambitious, if nothing else;

We need at least over fifty percent of the population to come togeather, and at that time we should be able to elect a baron who is willing to finish the job. We must get the police on our side most of all

Good luck with that then Connor. Having saved your dole all year long you managed a total of 5 on yer big day out in the capital. The gazebo was unnecessary - a golf brolly would have been overkill.

Meanwhile Debbie with piercing insight remarks;

Another Traitor!

One more for the chop come the revolution.

Crabby has abandoned Common Law;

Who cares I'm using common sense from now on.

He's on track to catch a common cold more like.

He concludes with this sensible final word;

I'm going down the pub.

Priceless entertainment for a Monday afternoon.

[notorial dissent]

Our little Quail will be lucky if he hears from more than an handful of the lucky recipients of his missives. Based on his research experience, I would suspect that many of his intended recipients will be dead or in their dotage, and I suspect a good number of them will just consign his blatherings to the waste bin. Our little Quail is exceedingly dense and slow on the uptake at the best of time s it would seem, and these aren't those.

On other matters, it is truly a sad and thorough commentary on your group and selves when you can't even organized a half assed pub crawl and get it to come together.

Get 50% of the populace to come together under your banner, not in this or any other rational reality.

[JimUk1]

Gavin's reply is nothing short of baffling!

"Without proof of claim it's just a mans opinion".

Well no Gav, it isn't! The proof is in the pudding. All the Barons that have written back have politely told you to sod off, that's the proof! F-ing moron!

[longdog]

Good luck with that then Connor. Having saved your dole all year long you managed a total of 5 on yer big day out in the capital. The gazebo was unnecessary - a golf brolly would have been overkill.

Compare and contrast with 'Theresa May's Leaving Drinks' being organised on Facebook with 33,000 people saying they'll be attending. Even if half of them don't show up it'll still be over 3000 times more popular than 'lawful rebellion'.

[Hercule Parrot]

Gavin's reply is nothing short of baffling!

"Without proof of claim it's just a mans opinion".

So a discouraging reply from any single Baron is just one man's opinion and can be discarded. But a supportive reply from any single Baron would be copper-bottomed legal authority to rise up against the state?

[Hercule Parrot]

So now Magna Carta applies to every human beign on the planet that fights the "establishment".

Yeah, its kind of like the UCC in that regard.

I understand that Magnum Carter was actually derived from UCC, which we all know to be a timeless and global model of justice. I read it on Facebook, so it must be right...

[John Uskglass]

we should be able to elect a baron

Elect a Baron? Can they really be so dense and ill-informed that they don't see what's wrong with that idea? I mean, if you're a punter on the street, fair enough if you're confused by how Barons come into being, but if you're posing as constitutional experts....

[Gregg]

"If I had my way, I would build a lethal chamber as big as the Crystal Palace, with a military band playing softly, and a Cinematograph working brightly; then I'd go out in the back streets and main streets and bring them in, all the sick, the halt, and the maimed; I would lead them gently, and they would smile me a weary thanks; and the band would softly bubble out the "Hallelujah Chorus".

We could build it outside Munich, in Dachau!

[JimUk1]

Ok, even i'm a little perplexed by this response from a Baron.

https://m.facebook.com/groups/388605611 ... 2119499155

[The Observer]

I understand that Magnum Carter was actually derived from UCC, which we all know to be a timeless and global model of justice. I read it on Facebook, so it must be right...

I have heard that Moses received the UCC from God on Mount Sinai....

[MaritalArtist]

So now Magna Carta applies to every human beign on the planet that fights the "establishment".

Yeah, its kind of like the UCC in that regard.

I understand that Magnum Carter was actually derived from UCC, which we all know to be a timeless and global model of justice. I read it on Facebook, so it must be right...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNZosqiJISs

[noblepa]

I understand that Magnum Carter was actually derived from UCC, which we all know to be a timeless and global model of justice. I read it on Facebook, so it must be right...

I have heard that Moses received the UCC from God on Mount Sinai....

You've figured it out!!!! The Ten Commandments are just sections 1 through 10 of the UCC!!

[notorial dissent]

we should be able to elect a baron

Elect a Baron? Can they really be so dense and ill-informed that they don't see what's wrong with that idea? I mean, if you're a punter on the street, fair enough if you're confused by how Barons come into being, but if you're posing as constitutional experts....

They clearly DON'T know what the MC was or was about, either in historical or legal context, and they understand even less who or what the "Barons" were, so of course they think they can "elect" one. Comes to mind, is the English educational system that deficient, or are these just really really stupid ignorant people for which there is no help? I probably go with the latter when all is said and done.

[Siegfried Shrink]

I have heard that Moses received the UCC from God on Mount Sinai....

Nearly right, it was in fact Mt. Rushmore.

[littleFred]

Ok, even i'm a little perplexed by this response from a Baron.

Dear Mr White, I am sorry to be unable to help you. I support Brexit.

It seems clear enough. The 2001 Barons objected to the Treaty of Nice and the associated reduction of national sovereignty. The current-day PLDers claim (with no evidence) that after the treaty was ratified, the barons called for lawful rebellion.

This baroness is taking the PLD agument at its word: "You want us to get out of Europe? So do I. But I can't do anything about it."

David Robinson's argument, that rebellion is lawful because the barons called it, is false. To the disappointment of PLDers, current barons are clearly saying they not going to lead, or even take part in, a rebellion.

If we had enough people we could lawfully force a baron to stand with us (with or without force)

Well, if you had enough people on your side, say 50 million, you could force anyone to do anything, even to change laws.

If we don't need the barons what's with the signing of the oaths, and people getting questioned about been under oath??

Yes, oaths are pointless. You are subject to laws, whatever oaths you have made.

It's good to have something in writing when we get kidnapped.

It might give you some comfort, but it's no practical help.

[The Observer]

Maybe they need to realize that asking the barons to get involved is not working. Its time for them to start working up the ladder of the peers and start contacting the viscounts.

[TheNewSaint]

The 2001 Barons objected to the Treaty of Nice and the associated reduction of national sovereignty.

This is something I've been wondering: what real political power do barons actually have? I know Article 61 was written out 800 years ago, but this 2001 matter suggests they do have some say in the affairs of state. Are they just influential citizens?

[littleFred]

Are they just influential citizens?

Yes.

A baron might be in the house of lords, which gives them power. A minister must be a member of either the commons or lords (with very rare exceptions), so if a prime minister wants someone who isn't an MP to become a minister, the first step is to make them a life baron or baroness, give them a seat in the house of lords, then make them a minister. Example: Baroness Warsi.

PLDers claim the queen wouldn't have responded to the barons' petition if she wasn't obliged to, so this "proves" article 61 has force. But the argument is bunk. The queen often replies to mail, in a polite but non-committal way, even to non-influential citizens.

[HardyW]

The 2001 Barons objected to the Treaty of Nice and the associated reduction of national sovereignty.

This is something I've been wondering: what real political power do barons actually have? I know Article 61 was written out 800 years ago, but this 2001 matter suggests they do have some say in the affairs of state. Are they just influential citizens?

As far as I can see, the four barons in 2001 were simply mounting a political stunt to show their disapproval of government policy towards Europe at that time. There is no evidence to show they believed their statement "invoking" Magna Carta had any legal standing, they were just making a point that allegedly the birthright of England/Britain was being squandered.

Also regarding the status of a baron, the House of Lords which is the second chamber of the legislature, now still includes a limited number of hereditary peers (a compromise accepted by Tony Blair) but all those who are appointed to the chamber, usually called life peers, are given the title of Baron/Baroness. If the title had been updated as well as the method of appointment, we should be calling them Senator as in Ireland, Germany etc, but then the link with Magna Carta couldn't be relied on.