von Nuthouse raided

[Demosthenes]

Dear Liberty Dollar Supporters:

I sincerely regret to inform you that about 8:00 this morning a dozen FBI and Secret Service agents raided the Liberty Dollar office in Evansville.

For approximately six hours they took all the gold, all the silver, all the platinum and almost two tons of Ron Paul Dollars that where just delivered last Friday. They also took all the files, all the computers and froze our bank accounts.

We have no money. We have no products. We have no records to even know what was ordered or what you are owed. We have nothing but the will to push forward and overcome this massive assault on our liberty and our right to have real money as defined by the US Constitution. We should not to be defrauded by the fake government money.

But to make matters worse, all the gold and silver that backs up the paper certificates and digital currency held in the vault at Sunshine Mint has also been confiscated. Even the dies for mint the Gold and Silver Libertys have been taken.

This in spite of the fact that Edmond C. Moy, the Director of the Mint, acknowledged in a letter to a US Senator that the paper certificates did not violate Section 486 and were not illegal. But the FBI and Services took all the paper currency too.

The possibility of such action was the reason the Liberty Dollar was designed so that the vast majority of the money was in specie form and in the people’s hands. Of the $20 million Liberty Dollars, only about a million is in paper or digital form.

I regret that if you are due an order. It may be some time until it will be filled... if ever... it now all depends on our actions.

Everyone who has an unfulfilled order or has digital or paper currency should band together for a class action suit and demand redemption. We cannot allow the government to steal our money! Please don’t let this happen!!! Many of you read the articles quoting the government and Federal Reserve officials that the Liberty Dollar was legal. You did nothing wrong. You are legally entitled to your property. Let us use this terrible act to band together and further our goal – to return America to a value based currency.

Please forward this important Alert... so everyone who possess or use the Liberty Dollar is aware of the situation.

Please click HERE to sign up for the class action lawsuit and get your property back!

If the above link does not work you can access the page by copying the following into your web browser. http://www.libertydollar.org/classaction/index.php

Thanks again for your support at this darkest time as the damn government and their dollar sinks to a new low.

Bernard von NotHaus

Monetary Architect

[Randall]

What is a "Ron Paul dollar"??

[Demosthenes]

http://www.libertydollar.org/ld/ronpauldollar

[Nikki]

We've caught up with Canada!

Now we have our own loonie.

[.]

I don't call him von Nuthouse for nothing.

[Nikki]

I wasn't referring to Nuthaus

[AFTP]

This in spite of the fact that Edmond C. Moy, the Director of the Mint, acknowledged in a letter to a US Senator that the paper certificates did not violate Section 486 and were not illegal. But the FBI and Services took all the paper currency too.

If true, are the Feds out of line?
Do the Libby people have a case?

[grammarian44]

This in spite of the fact that Edmond C. Moy, the Director of the Mint, acknowledged in a letter to a US Senator that the paper certificates did not violate Section 486 and were not illegal. But the FBI and Services took all the paper currency too.

If true, are the Feds out of line?
Do the Libby people have a case?

Even if it were true that the Director of the Mint said the coins were not illegal in a letter to a US Senator (and I doubt that it was said), there is no way the sending of a letter by an agency official to a US Senator is going to determine the meaning of a federal statute.

[jkeeb]

I must be cynical.

My first thought when reading the article was that the writer did not experience a search by the Feds, but was preparing the way for a trip to Panama with the loot.

[Demosthenes]

Dear Subscriber,

(The following is based upon recently received information, which I assume to be accurate. A message went out, claiming to be from Bernard von NotHaus, the "head dude" at Liberty Dollar, reporting the following. I'll let you know if I get more confirmation of its
accuracy.)

But we neeeeeeeeeed "government" to protect us! From what? How about from armed robbers?

Well, a dozen armed robbers just pulled off what is probably the biggest precious metals heist in this country in a very long time.
Somewhere around a million dollars in gold, silver, and platinum were stolen this morning by a dozen armed thugs. Unfortunately, the crooks got away. But don't worry, the government is on the case!

Unfortunately, they're "on the case" going after the VICTIMS of this crime. You see, the armed robbers were agents of the FBI and the Secret Service, and the victim was the "Liberty Dollar"
organization--not to mention all the people who rightfully OWNED the stolen property.

I probably don't have to tell you the motive: the folks at Liberty Dollar, by offering an inflation-proof, precious-metals-backed currency, were messing with one of the tyrants' biggest power
games: the robbery-via-"inflation" game. And in the land of the free, this is what happens when you threaten the megalomaniacs'
power. Never mind that the Liberty Dollar is perfectly legal, as confirmed by U.S. officials. To hell with the law; there is POWER at stake, and you can bet that that "goddamn piece of paper" (as Bush called the Constitution) isn't going to stop Fuhrer W. and his jackboots from living out their little power trip fantasies.

So, are all you "limited government" Republicans proud of the regime you created? Is this fascist empire what you wanted? Let's
see: "your" party got the House, the Senate, and the White House.
And years later, what do you have to show for it? The biggest federal budget ever? The creation of the biggest federal bureaucracy ever? Wow, good thing the Democrats didn't get into power, or we'd be seeing the growth of "big government."

Wake up and smell the jackboots.

If you actually support the Bush regime, then put the damn swastika on your sleeve and be honest about it. If, on the other hand, you actually believe in "limited government," and you insist on engaging in the insane ritual of voting, then how about supporting the ONLY one in the presidential race (from either party) who ISN'T a devout collectivist, national socialist? And I don't want to hear any crap about "wasting your vote" on someone who can't win, or down the road, you can proudly tell your kids how you voted for the fascist/socialist who won, instead of the guy with PRINCIPLES who didn't. Yeah, there's something to be proud of. Again, for those who believe in the "election" ritual, you have two choices: Ron Paul, or totalitarianism. I don't know how much more proof of that you could possibly need.

Sincerely,


Larken Rose
http://www.larkenrose.com

[Demosthenes]

Never mind that the Liberty Dollar is perfectly legal, as confirmed by U.S. officials.

I don't see the words "perfectly legal" in the US Mint's 2006 warning about Liberty Dollars...

NORFED’s "Liberty Dollars"

Source: NORFED, Inc.

The National Organization for the Repeal of the Federal Reserve Act and the Internal Revenue Code (NORFED) is producing and marketing gold and silver medallions that NORFED calls "Liberty Dollars." The United States Mint and the United States Department of Justice have received inquiries regarding the legality of these so-called "Liberty Dollar" medallions. The United States Mint urges consumers who are considering the purchase or use of these items to be aware that they are not genuine United States Mint bullion coins and they are not legal tender. These medallions are privately produced products and are not backed by, nor affiliated in any way with, the United States Government. Moreover, prosecutors with the Department of Justice have determined that the use of these gold and silver NORFED "Liberty Dollar" medallions as circulating money is a Federal crime.

Consumers may find advertisements for these medallions confusing and should take note of several issues related to them.

First, the advertisements refer to the product as "real money" and "currency." These medallions might look like real money because they—

Bear the inscriptions, "Liberty," "Dollars," "Trust in God" (similar to "In God We Trust"), and "USA" (similar to "United States of America"), and an inscription purporting to denote the year of production; and

Depict images that are similar to United States coins, such as the torch on the reverses of the current dime coin, 1986 Statute of Liberty commemorative silver dollar and 1993 Bill of Rights commemorative half-dollar, and the Liberty Head designs on the obverses of United States gold coins from the mid-1800s to the early 1900s.

However, despite their misleading appearance, NORFED "Liberty Dollar" medallions are not genuine United States Mint coins and they are not legal tender.

Second, the advertisements confusingly refer to NORFED "Liberty Dollar" medallions as "legal" and "constitutional." However, under the Constitution ( Article I, section 8, clause 5 ), Congress has the exclusive power to coin money of the United States and to regulate its value. By statute ( 31 U.S.C. § 5112(a) ), Congress specifies the coins that the Secretary of the Treasury is authorized to mint and issue and requires the Secretary to carry out these duties at the United States Mint (31 U.S.C. § 5131). Accordingly, the United States Mint is the only entity in the United States with the lawful authority to mint and issue legal tender United States coins.

Under 18 U.S.C. § 486, it is a Federal crime to utter or pass, or attempt to utter or pass, any coins of gold or silver intended for use as current money except as authorized by law. According to the NORFED website, "Liberty merchants" are encouraged to accept NORFED "Liberty Dollar" medallions and offer them as change in sales transactions of merchandise or services. Further, NORFED tells "Liberty associates" that they can earn money by obtaining NORFED "Liberty Dollar" medallions at a discount and then can "spend [them] into circulation." Therefore, NORFED’s "Liberty Dollar" medallions are specifically intended to be used as current money in order to limit reliance on, and to compete with the circulating coinage of the United States. Consequently, prosecutors with the United States Department of Justice have concluded that the use of NORFED’s "Liberty Dollar" medallions violates 18 U.S.C. § 486.

[Dr. Caligari]

Interesting variety of views on display here:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1926165/posts

[.]

Wake up and smell the jackboots.

[buck09]

For approximately six hours they took all the gold, all the silver, all the platinum and almost two tons of Ron Paul Dollars that where just delivered last Friday. They also took all the files, all the computers and froze our bank accounts.

1. I thought all the notes were backed by silver? What's up with the gold and platinum. If these are, as they insist, "warehouse recipts", why have other metals that aren't tied to a note in circulation?

2. Think of the raid as a "natural disaster". Anyone who does something as important as this should have a plan that either a.) de-centalizes the system so that there is no single point of failure or b.) has a disaster recovery plan so that key business operations aren't impacted.

3. Why would they need much in their bank accounts? Presumably, when those worthless FRN's come rolling in, you would think they would get that moved into specie before our out-of-control inflation makes them even more worthless, right? Maybe keep some in there for business expenses, but I would assume they they paid whatever staff they had in libbies, right? ('cause if they didn't, that would be awfully ironic...)

4. Risk management. We're talking about right-wing kooks here - I assume a raid by the jackbooted feds was always something they worried about. So, in the face of an obvious (and now realized) risk, you have the option to accept, mitigate or transfer risk. Who made and documented that decision?

Their failures on all of these levels simply point out what people have been saying all along. These people are two-bit monitary hacks who sold pieces of paper worth less than the FRN's they took for them.

Knuclkeheads deserve every last bit of what's coming to them. I only hope that the people who were suckered into getting owrthless slips of paper can recover some of what they paid for...

[buck09]

http://www.libertydollar.org/ld/ronpauldollar

I'd buy one just to videotape myself multing it down and forming it into something useful, like a fork. (If I had any metalurgical skills, that is...)

[Demosthenes]

But to make matters worse, all the gold and silver that backs up the paper certificates and digital currency held in the vault at Sunshine Mint has also been confiscated. Even the dies for mint the Gold and Silver Libertys have been taken.

People on nhfree.com have been calling the Sunshine Mint and they know nothing about any raid...

[Demosthenes]

And speaking of Liberty Dollars, Sveltana Dudnik, Shaun Kranish's wife, cut a deal with the evil Wisconsin government two weeks ago and plead "no contest" to one count of disorderly conduct. She was originally charged with four counts of Theft when she and Shaun tried to use their funny money in Wisconsin.

[grammarian44]

I'd buy one just to videotape myself multing it down and forming it into something useful, like a fork. (If I had any metalurgical skills, that is...)

Don't you realize that in 30 years these things will be valuable for the same reason that "Vote for Dewey" and "Make Love Not War" buttons are valuable?

[ErsatzAnatchist]

Ron Paul Dollars. I think I just figured out what the prize is to the Who Will Roll First Poll.

[Famspear]

Posted without comment from Courier-Press News, Evansville, Indiana

Liberty Dollar office raided

15 November 2007

The future of an Evansville-based company that produces a "private voluntary barter currency" known as the Liberty Dollar is in question after federal agents raided the facility this week, according to an e-mail sent by its founder.
Federal officials reportedly raided the group's headquarters, located in a strip mall at 225 N. Stockwell Road, early Wednesday morning and seized documents and precious metals.
FBI Agent Wendy Osborne, a spokeswoman for the FBI's Indianapolis office, directed all questions on the raid to the Western District of North Carolina U.S. Attorney's Office. A spokeswoman there said she had no information on the investigation.

Bernard von NotHaus, the group's monetary architect and the author of the e-mail, did not immediately respond to a message seeking comment.

Von NotHaus developed the Liberty Dollar in 1998 as an "inflation-proof" alternative currency to the U.S. Dollar, which he has claimed has devalued since the Federal Reserve was established in 1913. The silver medallions are produced by a private mint in Idaho on behalf of Evansville-based Liberty Services, which also issues paper notes which the group says are backed by silver reserves.

Liberty Dollar employees were at the office this morning cleaning up after the raid. They referred all questions to von NotHaus.

According to the e-mail, about a dozen agents arrived Wednesday morning and seized gold, silver, platinum and nearly two tons of recently delivered Ron Paul Dollars. They also took all the files, all the computers and froze the group's bank accounts, the e-mail said.

"We have no money. We have no products. We have no records to even know what was ordered or what you are owed," von NotHaus wrote in the e-mail, which was sent to Liberty Dollar customers. "We have nothing but the will to push forward and overcome this massive assault on our liberty and our right to have real money as defined by the US Constitution. We should not to be defrauded by the fake government money."
The e-mail said the gold and silver that backs up the paper and digital currency was confiscated, as were the dies used to mint the Liberty Dollars themselves. As a result, it warns that recent orders placed for Liberty Dollars may not be filled and it encourages supporters to band together for a class action lawsuit.

The e-mail repeatedly defends the Liberty Dollar as legal.
"You did nothing wrong," von NotHaus wrote. "You are legally entitled to your property. Let us use this terrible act to band together and further our goal to return America to a value based currency."

- Gavin Lesnick

http://www.courierpress.com/news/2007/n ... ce-raided/