Ron Paul to Eliminate Income Tax

[RobbZer0]

Ron Paul says he'll abolish the Federal Reserve and among other things eliminate the Income Tax.

I myself don't want to pay Income Tax. I'd rather have that money to myself to enhance my lifestyle. Of course, I'd still have to pay the sales taxes and the hundreds others I might come across that actually pay for services I receive from government, but the main one, the Income Tax, that does not pay for these services doesn't need to be around. Because I know that Income Tax dollars are absorbed entirely by interest to the bankers at the Federal Reserve as mentioned in the Grace Commission. And, with that said, we'd be better off giving the Government back the power to control money supply so that the dollar isn't just a piece of paper that might as well be Monopoly money.

So I am most DEFINITELY voting Ron Paul! In my view, the best choices to make when voting Republican or Democrat are Ron Paul and Mike Gravel who also would work to phase out IRS/Income Tax.

[RyanMcC]

Ron Paul says he'll abolish the Federal Reserve and among other things eliminate the Income Tax.

I myself don't want to pay Income Tax. I'd rather have that money to myself to enhance my lifestyle. Of course, I'd still have to pay the sales taxes and the hundreds others I might come across that actually pay for services I receive from government, but the main one, the Income Tax, that does not pay for these services doesn't need to be around. Because I know that Income Tax dollars are absorbed entirely by interest to the bankers at the Federal Reserve as mentioned in the Grace Commission. And, with that said, we'd be better off giving the Government back the power to control money supply so that the dollar isn't just a piece of paper that might as well be Monopoly money.

So I am most DEFINITELY voting Ron Paul! In my view, the best choices to make when voting Republican or Democrat are Ron Paul and Mike Gravel who also would work to phase out IRS/Income Tax.

Ron Paul says he would like to eliminate the IRS. The likelyhood of that happening even if he is elected president is slight. I do think he is the most likely to actually do something to cut spending and he almost definately will keep taxes low.

Our tax dollars are not entirely absorbed by interest on the national debt.

Current National Debt: $9,125,236,872,835.68 ($9.1 Trillion)
(source: http://www.treasurydirect.gov/NP/BPDLog ... ication=np)

Interest paid on national debt in 2006: $405,872,109,315.83 ($405.9 Billion)
(source: http://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/repo ... xpense.htm)

Income Tax Revenue 2006: $1.04 trillion

$1.04 Trillion - Income Tax
$405.9 Billion - Interest on National Debt

There is $ left over. Also, it doesn't all go to the Federal Reserve.

This link explains it a little better and addresses the Grace Commission Report:

http://docs.law.gwu.edu/facweb/jsiegel/ ... s/debt.htm

---

"Government is best that governs least." - Thomas Paine
"And by these standards, we have set up a fabulous government in Iraq" - Stephen Colbert

[Nick]

According to the Fed's financial statements for 2006 the US Treasury only paid about $36.452 billion to the Fed as interest on US Treasury debt that it holds and a little over $29 billion of this was paid back to the US Treasury by year-end. You can look at it here

If you look here you can see how it is a logical impossibility to have all money backed by gold because money is also created and destroyed by the normal banking operations of loans and debt repayment.

In short, I won't vote for Ron Paul because he has a relatively poor understanding of money and banking and wants to turn it all over to politicians. That's even more dangerous than handing whiskey and the car keys to teenage boys.

[RyanMcC]

If you look here you can see how it is a logical impossibility to have all money backed by gold because money is also created and destroyed by the normal banking operations of loans and debt repayment.

That's not exactally what he seems to advocate.

For starters, the Federal Reserve should:

Begin publishing the M3 statistics again. Let us see the numbers that most accurately reveal how much new money the Fed is pumping into the world economy.

Tell us exactly what the President's Working Group on Financial Markets does and why.

Explain how interest rates are set. Conservatives profess to support free markets, without wage and price controls. Yet the most important price of all, the price of money as determined by interest rates, is set arbitrarily in secret by the Fed rather than by markets! Why is this policy written in stone? Why is there no congressional input at least?

Change legal tender laws to allow constitutional legal tender (commodity money) to compete domestically with the dollar.

Source: http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul370.html

Recent video of him discussing this issue:

Ron Paul on Kudlow & Company (11/08/07)
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Mx2eWcBOE3o
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Cilwld5fj48 - Panel (including Steve Forbes) discusses previous interview.

[Doktor Avalanche]

Holy crap! We're already nine trillion in the hole?

[Demosthenes]

Ron Paul doesn't have the power to eliminate either the income tax or the IRS. That's Congress' job, which makes RP's claims a whopping lie.

RP also has a piss poor understanding of how the federal reserve works (see the Russo movie as an example.)

Bottom line, no vote from Demo.

[RyanMcC]

Ron Paul doesn't have the power to eliminate either the income tax or the IRS.

No doubt he picked up on that somewhere along the line in his 20 years in congress.

That's Congress' job, which makes RP's claims a whopping lie.

Did someone provide a citation where RP said he was going to abolish the IRS and Federal Reserve by decree?

RP also has a piss poor understanding of how the federal reserve works (see the Russo movie as an example.)

As I said before, it was the only video that managed to make me feel sorry for the IRS, poorly edited garbage. Neither the IRS or RP should be judged by their overly edited appearances & mentions.

Bottom line, no vote from Demo.

I wouldn't vote for that straw man either.

[Demosthenes]

[1]01:58:41 AARON RUSSO
Who owns the Federal Reserve?
[1]01:58:43 CONGRESSMAN RON PAUL
It's secret,

FADE IN TO OF AARON RUSSO SITTING IN CONGRESSMAN RON PAUL'S OFFICE.
[1]02:04:13 AARON RUSSO
So the Federal Reserve is actually an illegal...
B-ROLL: [1]02:04:15
MEDIUM SHOT OF CONGRESSMAN RON PAUL SITTING IN HIS OFFICE.
[1]02:04:16 AARON RUSSO
...Entity functioning within...
B-ROLL: [1]02:04:17
MEDIUM SHOT OF AARON RUSSO SITTING IN CONGRESSMAN RON PAUL'S OFFICE.
[1]02:04:17 AARON RUSSO
...Government.
[1]02:04:18 CONGRESSMAN RON PAUL
It's illegal, and...
B-ROLL: [1]02:04:19
MEDIUM SHOT OF CONGRESSMAN RON PAUL SITTING IN HIS OFFICE.
[1]02:04:19 CONGRESSMAN RON PAUL
...What we have given to this so-called agency is the authority to counterfeit money.
B-ROLL: [1]02:04:25
MEDIUM SHOT OF AARON RUSSO SITTING IN CONGRESSMAN RON PAUL'S OFFICE.
[1]02:04:25 AARON RUSSO
Do you have any points of view about the Federal Reserve, and how the Federal Reserve operates?
B-ROLL: [1]02:04:29
MEDIUM SHOT OF CONGRESSMAN RON PAUL SITTING IN HIS OFFICE.
[1]02:04:29 CONGRESSMAN RON PAUL
They just enter something on a computer. Oh, you need $20 billion today. Here's $20 billion. But they
got that out of thin air. It came out of thin air, it goes to the Treasury, the Treasury then pays the bills.
[1]02:04:41 AARON RUSSO
So, it's no different than Monopoly money.

CONGRESSMAN RON PAUL SITTING IN HIS OFFICE.
[1]02:05:15 CONGRESSMAN RON PAUL
All countries who have ever attempted to create money out of thin air (STAMMERS) the currency is
eventually destroyed.

[1]02:09:20 AARON RUSSO
Is there a law that requires people to file a 1040?
B-ROLL: [1]02:09:23
MEDIUM SHOT OF RON PAUL
[CONGRESSMAN RON PAUL (R-TEXAS) ]
[1]02:09:23 CONGRESSMAN RON PAUL
Not explicitly, but, uh, it's, it's certainly implied.

[Burzmali]

But if he eliminates the income tax, how with he fund his wealth redistribution bills?

[BBFlatt]

Demosthenes wrote:
Ron Paul doesn't have the power to eliminate either the income tax or the IRS.


No doubt he picked up on that somewhere along the line in his 20 years in congress.

So either he's slow on the uptake, or he thinks we are. Either way that enough reason for me to vote against him.

[RyanMcC]

Demosthenes wrote:
Ron Paul doesn't have the power to eliminate either the income tax or the IRS.


No doubt he picked up on that somewhere along the line in his 20 years in congress.

So either he's slow on the uptake, or he thinks we are. Either way that enough reason for me to vote against him.

Taking into consideration we elected GWB twice and the 82% rule, who says we aren't?

[Nikki]

RP has absolutely no clue about money.

If he did, he's realize that there's very little relationship between how much chuuency the Fed releases and how much money there is in existence.

[RobbZer0]

What about an audit to find out how much gold there is at Fort Knox or wherever else it may be held. Hasn't there been an attempt to have the gold audited but has been denied?

And if an audit was denied, was there a reason given besides something along the lines of "There's no need."

It seems to me there is a need if ever an audit is requested and that if the request is consistently denied that maybe there's something to hide.

[agent86x]

What about an audit to find out how much gold there is at Fort Knox or wherever else it may be held. Hasn't there been an attempt to have the gold audited but has been denied?

So what?

And if an audit was denied, was there a reason given besides something along the lines of "There's no need."

We haven't been on a gold standard for over 40 years.

It seems to me there is a need if ever an audit is requested and that if the request is consistently denied that maybe there's something to hide.

You're well on your way to be a conspiracy wacko.

[agent86x]

I myself don't want to pay Income Tax.

Who does? But it's part of the price we pay to live in the United States. If you don't like it, try Somalia or Burundi, or someplace similar.

I'd rather have that money to myself to enhance my lifestyle.

Then get a better job.

Of course, I'd still have to pay the sales taxes and the hundreds others I might come across that actually pay for services I receive from government,

You pay sales tax to the Federal Government?

but the main one, the Income Tax, that does not pay for these services doesn't need to be around.

So you don't want a national defense, air traffic control, customs services, communications regulation, safe food, water, and air, etc. that are all interstate, federal responsibilities?

Because I know that Income Tax dollars are absorbed entirely by interest to the bankers at the Federal Reserve as mentioned in the Grace Commission.

And you would be wrong.

And, with that said, we'd be better off giving the Government back the power to control money supply so that the dollar isn't just a piece of paper that might as well be Monopoly money.

The government has control of the "money supply", sport.

[Famspear]

RobZer0 wrote:

It seems to me there is a need if ever an audit is requested and that if the request is consistently denied that maybe there's something to hide.

What? When someone requests an audit, and the requests are consistently denied, it means that "maybe there's something to hide"?

I'm not sure I follow the logic here.

As far as an audit of government assets or operations are concerned, there are laws that prescribe when and by whom audits must be performed. In the absence of a legal requirement for an audit, there is no generalized moral obligation for a government agency to submit to an audit merely because someone else asks for one - one time, or ten times, or a hundred times.

Audits cost money, too. That means that the director of a government agency cannot, on its own initiative, simply say "hey let's have an audit" just because someone requests one. Spending must be approved -- each agency has a budget. And overall spending is authorized by Congress.

In short, there are a lot of reasons for a government agency not to have an "audit" merely because someone would like to see one -- reasons that have nothing to do with "hiding" something.

[Demosthenes]

The United States Bullion Depository Fort Knox, Kentucky

Amount of present gold holdings: 147.3 million ounces.
The only gold removed has been very small quantities used to test the purity of gold during regularly scheduled audits. Except for these samples, no gold has been transferred to or from the Depository for many years.
The gold is held as an asset of the United States at book value of $42.22 per ounce.
The Depository opened in 1937; the first gold was moved to the depository in January that year.
Highest gold holdings this century: 649.6 million ounces (December 31, 1941).
Size of a standard gold bar: 7 inches x 3 and 5/8 inches x 1 and 3/4 inches.
Weight of a standard gold bar: approximately 400 ounces or 27.5 pounds.
Construction of the depository:
Building materials used included 16,000 cubic feet of granite, 4,200 cubic yards of concrete, 750 tons of reinforcing steel, and 670 tons of structural steel.
The cost of construction was $560,000 and the building was completed in December 1936.
In the past, the Depository has stored the Declaration of Independence, the U.S. Constitution, the Articles of Confederation, Lincoln's Gettysburg address, three volumes of the Gutenberg Bible, and Lincoln's second inaugural address.
In addition to gold bullion, the Mint has stored valuable items for other government agencies. The Magna Carta was once stored there. The crown, sword, scepter, orb, and cape of St. Stephen, King of Hungary also were stored at the Depository, before being returned to the government of Hungary in 1978.
The Depository is a classified facility. No visitors are permitted, and no exceptions are made.

[RobbZer0]

We haven't been on a gold standard for over 40 years.

So doesn't that mean that the money printed is essentially backed by nothing, has no real value, and is in a sense printed out of thin air?

[Demosthenes]

More about that painfully tired conspiracy theory on Wikipedia.

Conspiracy theory
A popular and recurring conspiracy theory, as alleged by Edward Durrell, Norman Dodd, Tom Valentine, Peter Beter and others, claims that the vault is mostly empty and that most of the gold in Fort Knox was removed to London in the late 1960s by President Lyndon Johnson. In response, on September 23, 1974, Senator Walter Huddleston of Kentucky, twelve congressmen, and about 100 members of the news media toured the vault and opened various cells and doors, each filled with gold. Radio reporter Bill Evans, when asked if it seemed like the gold might have been moved in just for the visit, replied that "all I can say is that I saw gold there" and that it seemed like it was always there. Additionally, audits of the gold by the General Accounting Office (in cooperation with the United States Mint and the United States Customs Service in 1974 and the Treasury Department) from 1975-1981 found no discrepancies between the reported and actual amounts of gold at the Depository. However, the audit has been described as a peculiar process because it was only a partial audit done over an extended period of time. The report states only 21 percent of the gold bars were audited as of 1981 (the audit report's issue date) and that the audit has "covered more than 212.7 million fine troy ounces of gold" which "represents over 80 percent of the total amount of United States-owned gold of 264.1 million fine troy ounces." A small amount of gold is removed for regularly scheduled audits to ensure the purity matches official records. The theory continues to persist, however. In 2007, KPMG will carry out an independent audit

[LPC]

A Value Added Tax (VAT - national sales tax?) If so, what gets taxed? If so, are you willing to have a tax that takes more of a low income person's income (by percentage) that an upper income person's?

I would be willing to consider a VAT, but as a replacement to the present corporate income tax, not the individual income tax.

The corporate income tax is arguably passed on to the consumer in the form of higher prices, so a VAT that raises the same amount of money would probably have a negligible impact on income distribution.

I would still want a stiff corporate income tax on interest, dividends, rents, and other kinds of passive income received by the corporation and not distributed to the shareholders as dividends, so that corporations are formed to operate real businesses and aren't just incorporated pools of money, but that's a side issue.