Robert 'Crab Bait' White consents to losing his houses

[longdog]

I'm not sure if Bobby has yet grasped the fact that his bankruptcy will go on forever or until the OR is happy the debts have been paid. I think he's still working on the basis that if he sits tight for a year the bankruptcy will go away...

Mark Cawkwell

He is assuming you own 50% of the equity because it’s in your name. But 100% of your equity could be held in share certificates by a trust for a beneficiary


Robert White

I'm thinking of giving in.


Mark Cawkwell

I went through the same as you in 2010 before I was under article 61 and ended up with a bankruptcy for life for issuing liens and ignoring the court etc. He will be committing treason by moving against you as you are under oath to the barons but looks like he is one of the “ I’m just doing my job types”. So it’s a tough one as to how do you defend your assets as well if he is going to happily commit treason.


Robert White

I was just kidding I'll never give in.


Robert White

How can they give you a bankruptcy for life? I know it's it's all bullshit but I aint seen that in their smallprint.


Mark Cawkwell

They suspended my discharge indefinitely for me refusing to report to the court for my punishment after they said I was in contempt of court. Had a few bailiffs come around for a couple of years with supposed county court arrest warrants for me but not heard anything further for 5 years now.



Robert White

Mark they make it up as they go along mate.

[TheNewSaint]

Robert White

I'm thinking of giving in.

I was just kidding I'll never give in.

Testing the waters, is he?

I still think Mr White is having some second thoughts. He knows he's going to lose, but chalks it up to treason, rather than his own lack of knowledge.

Reminds me of an early Simpsons episode, where Homer sneaks away from the marriage retreat to catch the legendary fish:

MARGE: Who are you trying to impress?

HOMER: Those weirdos in the worm store!

Crabby is too concerned about impressing the weirdos in the worm store, and not concerned enough about losing his real estate.

[montbelliard]

Well yes, but that still means that Crabby isn't in real danger of losing his home, because as you say the rental income will quickly cover the debts.

There is still the matter of the unpaid council tax, which could - possibly will - go according to the Pinnock precedent, unless the trustee also pays this off.

[ArthurWankspittle]

Can they seize the monthly rental income, after all they've seized his bank accounts, rather than seek possession and sale? Was that why the trustee was writing to the tenants?

Presumably yes. Also, I suspect the receiver took some time to find the details of the properties, hence originally looking at his residence. Now, as has been said, he could agree an IVA and pay some rent over to the receiver and creditors and everything is sorted in a year or so.

[rumpelstilzchen]

Mark Cawkwell is telling the truth. According to the insolvency register his bankruptcy order dates back to October 2010. As of today the status is: discharge is suspended indefinitely.

[exiledscouser]

I think Crabby is winding his audience up about a property portfolio. There isn’t a mention of any property in the Trustee’s recent letters other than the home address.

He’s in his late fifties so it’s most likely that any mortgage will be either paid off or relatively small to the available equity. I’d expect there to be more, significantly more equity available than 42grand.

If there were this little property empire the Trustee would surely go after one or more of them rather than go straight for the marital home, especially as Mrs Crab will be entitled to her share of the equity and realising Bob’s share would necessitate kicking her out.

I’m not entirely convinced there are other properties. He does like to play games our Bob.

[hucknallred]

I’m not entirely convinced there are other properties. He does like to play games our Bob.

I agree, we all fell for that 10 properties one. He'd have published any letters relating to them.

[notorial dissent]

The other option is that he may well "own" the other properties, and that they are either mortgaged to the hilt, or that he has so little equity in them that seizing them would probably cost more than they could recover. I have a hard time imagining that he stashed away enough cash from his failed club, although that could explain the club failure, to have bought those properties for cash and has extra stashed somewhere. So, lots of questions and very few answers. The ONLY certainty is that our little Quail is a confirmed and serial liar.

[The Seventh String]

The ONLY certainty is that our little Quail is a confirmed and serial liar.

Not quite. Another certainty is that however he paid for, or is paying for, those properties they are now in the receiver’s hands. And any debts connected with them are almost certainly now immediately payable in full even if they weren’t in arrears.

A home-owner/buyer with a resident spouse with an interest in the home, a landlord business and other non-limited liability businesses has an awful lot to lose by being made bankrupt. Being forced into it by a creditor because you are in severe financial difficulties and, despite best efforts, negotiating a way forward hasn’t been possible is one thing.

Believing a load of of fantasy “law”, taking “advice” from internet charlatans and their victims, hating paying taxes and creditors and thinking you can somehow beat “the system” by being awkward and trotting out gibberish is quite something else.

Another certainty occurs to me. Our defiant bankrupt is going to find that his utility bills will now cost more, once he’s found a supplier who will do business with him. Only getting electricity and gas by pre-payment meters is a possibility. Banks will put all kinds of conditions on him. He’s now financially restricted in all kinds of ways. He can forget credit. Life as an undischarged bankrupt is more difficult and more expensive.

If he decides to be so awkward with the receiver he never get discharged this won’t be the very serious, life changing event but with an end in sight which allows a chance to re-make your life that “modern” bankruptcy is meant to be. It will be like bankruptcy the old, hard way, only more so. His entire club-owning, home-owning, business-running lifestyle will have gone never to return.

I guess he might really be at the end of the financial road and is mentally unwell, in which case he has my sympathy but he really needs to seek help. Or maybe in the face of the collapse of his businesses he’s trying to save face as best he can. In which case rather than showboat he would do better to admit he tried the best he could, learn from the experience and try to pick up the pieces as best he can. He’d get far more respect for that.

[Gregg]

I'm also skeptical that he owns 10 rental properties, now that its come up. If he does, though, and they are liquidated in a bankruptcy, can you imagine the financial beating he's going to take in the distressed sale of 10 rental properties, likely not well maintained and all carrying the stigma and associated risk of an uncooperative former owner at least a mid level risk to go all Tom Crawford/Rheka Patel and attempting to un-repossess them? He could be moving to make a total wreck of his life, even compared to the total wreck it appears to be already. Now imagine how a spiteful estranged spouse might decide to make it even worse.

This is "Stupid on a Stick" stupid.

[rumpelstilzchen]

The letter from Benedict Mackenzie does mention his "various properties".

[ArthurWankspittle]

The letter from Benedict Mackenzie does mention his "various properties".

Sorry but can't see that. Looks standard stuff for a residential house allowing for wife and kids.

[Footloose52]

It's in the letter about half way down page 18 of this thread, it refers to his various properties and their occupiers.

[notorial dissent]

All I can say is that if he is a slum lord, I'd really hate to be one of his tenants. I'm sure he would be as law abiding there as he is elsewhere.

[ArthurWankspittle]

It's in the letter about half way down page 18 of this thread, it refers to his various properties and their occupiers.

Thanks. I think I was looking at the wrong letter and beginning to doubt there was any other reference to properties except for what Quail had written.

[notorial dissent]

I would assume that there is another letter that our little Quail has neglected to publish that details the "other" properties.

[mufc1959]

I wouldn't be surprised if his rental properties are heavily leveraged. It happened all the time in the heady days of the mid-2000s.

Landlord buys his first BTL, with a 90% interest-only mortgage. A year later, when it's gone up a bit in value, he takes out a further advance, using that money as the deposit on another BTL, with another interest-only mortgage on that one. A year later, a further advance on property 2, as the deposit for property 3. Rinse and repeat a few times before the crash and it's easy to see how someone could build up a portfolio of ten properties, with very little equity in any of them, particularly if they're north of Watford.

[Pox]

There have also been some relatively recent changes in tax breaks for buy to let landlords. 12/18 months ago - I can't remember.
Suffice to say, things aren't as attractive as they once were for a buy to let investor and I have noticed an upturn of what are clearly privately rented properties coming onto the market in my local area.
So with a 90% or less interest only mortgage, the figures may not add up as well as they did do previously.
In April 2018 new legislation comes into place - a landlord may not legally let a property which is below a certain energy performance standard.
I stress 'may not legally let'. 'They' will have to catch the rogue landlords first.

[ArthurWankspittle]

There have also been some relatively recent changes in tax breaks for buy to let landlords. 12/18 months ago - I can't remember.

It was stamp duty wasn't it? BTL no longer get tiered rates owner occupiers get.

[grixit]

This has the hallmarks of a tragedy of truly Wagnerian proportions,...

Maybe we could convince grixit to organize a Quatloosian Greek chorus that will prophesize the coming judgment and anger of the gods against Crabbie.

Receiver: Heed my words, wretched man! For Almighty Zeus has placed your fate in my hands. Yet, i need not unleash the thunderbolt. Come speak to me with reason and truth, and let us come to a less destructive arrangement.

Robert: Never! I defy Zeus and all his minions. You are traitors. My vengeance shall rock the very foundations of Olympus!

Receiver: Vain words. Even now the Furies have sought out your debtors and will claim the sums that you have been expecting.

Robert: No matter, i will put end to the Furies as well. I am a free man and i laugh at your feeble attacks. I have Nike at my right hand!

Frikintardistan Chorus: You are our hero, Robert, man who attracts crabs! Ignore their threats, it is only fake money!

Quatloosian Chorus: And yet, he was ever keen to collect that fake money. Also, that is not Nike, it's a moth eaten sock puppet. He is blinded by his own deceit. Soon he will fall like Icarus! Wait, why is Hubris coming to sit among us?

Hubris: His delusions leave me nothing to do. I might as well watch the show.

Quatloosian Chorus: Let us make more popcorn!