Practical Lawful Dissent FMOTL antics, continued...

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Re: Practical Lawful Dissent FMOTL antics, continued...

Post by SteveUK »

longdog wrote:If this doesn't summarise the 'rebels' I don't know what does...
Caroline Enilorac

I am having a discussion with an intellectual friend, who is trying to convince me commonlaw is made up of precedent, and I know that this is not so, but am trying to think about how best to point him in the right direction. He's very educated in law and history (ahem)
Coming up next... My friend who is a physicist says atoms are made of protons, neutrons and electrons but I know they're made of fairy dust and unicorn shit... Help me point him in the right direction.
the legal advice is great!
Connor Jason WilkinsonGroup admin Okay, tell him that there is two types of law known as common law. The Legem Terrae is the law of the land and is the will and custom of the people living in the country. The Stare Decisis is another common law which is made up of legal precedent and case law etc.
Connor Jason WilkinsonGroup admin Not many know what the legem terrae (common law) is though bare in mind. For example, the pen dragons think it is merely "no loss, no harm" (etc) which is wrong
Charles Spencer Common Law, is made up of Legal Precedents in Law and binding on all of us. Like connor has just wrote.
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Caroline Enilorac
Caroline Enilorac but precedents based on common law - no harm injry loss, deception?
Is it SteveUK or STEVE: of UK?????
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Re: Practical Lawful Dissent FMOTL antics, continued...

Post by exiledscouser »

longdog wrote:
Coming up next... My friend who is a physicist says atoms are made of protons, neutrons and electrons but I know they're made of fairy dust and unicorn shit... Help me point him in the right direction.
PLD nicely demonstrates that the four basic particles are;

Protons
Neutrons
Electrons and

Morons
:D
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Re: Practical Lawful Dissent FMOTL antics, continued...

Post by grixit »

SteveUK wrote:
longdog wrote:If this doesn't summarise the 'rebels' I don't know what does...
bare in mind
Hmm, the one time a sov didn't use latin, it would have actually fit. "Tabula Rasa" is a perfect description of their legal knowlege.
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Re: Practical Lawful Dissent FMOTL antics, continued...

Post by JimUk1 »

Young Conor tripping himself up again.

I feel sorry for him, he clearly doesn’t read anything -

Law of the land as defined-
The phrase law of the land is a legal term, equivalent to the Latin lex terrae, or legem terrae in the accusative case.[1] It refers to all of the laws in force within a country or region,[2][3][4][5] including statute law and case-made law.[6]
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Re: Practical Lawful Dissent FMOTL antics, continued...

Post by katiHWB »

I quite enjoyed the answer on this too :snicker: - https://m.facebook.com/groups/388605611 ... n__=%2C%3B
Geff Smith wrote:That is the view that this Group holds which is the reason I joined. So as you are in the White Dragons. Why has (sic) Mr Moore no longer at the top
Jane Finch wrote:Because he kept blocking people rather than creating relationships and connections. Plus he had too many hissy fits and it was finally the last straw for the rest of the leadership. He also didn't delegate out leadership, so even though the movement grew very quickly, there was no structure or organisation of members. That is now being rectified.
Jane Finch wrote:He's still a good man in my personal opinion, and a very knowledgeable lawful rebel, but there were too many issues.
Last edited by Gregg on Fri Feb 16, 2018 3:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: fixed broken quote
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Re: Practical Lawful Dissent FMOTL antics, continued...

Post by Hercule Parrot »

Caroline Enilorac

I am having a discussion with an intellectual friend, who is trying to convince me commonlaw is made up of precedent, and I know that this is not so, but am trying to think about how best to point him in the right direction. He's very educated in law and history (ahem)
This fundamental misunderstanding seems ubiquitous in UK sovcit/FMOTL discourse. They utterly fail to grasp what common law means in our jurisdiction. Common law has only one meaning here, and the intellectual friend defines it correctly:

Common law (also known as judicial precedent or judge-made law, or case law) is that body of law derived from judicial decisions of courts and similar tribunals. The defining characteristic of “common law” is that it arises as precedent.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_law

I suspect the confusion arises from an ignorant or wilful muddling with jus commune, a continental concept of traditional legal principles:

Jus commune or ius commune is Latin for "common law" in certain jurisdictions. It is often used by civil law jurists to refer to those aspects of the civil law system's invariant legal principles, sometimes called "the law of the land" in English law. While the ius commune was a secure point of reference in continental European legal systems, in England it was not a point of reference at all .
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jus_commune

However jus commune could be readily superseded by national laws and jurisdiction, so even if "non-intellectual" Caroline wished to argue against all evidence that the UK was or is subject to jus commune, it would make no practical difference at all. The concept of a "common law court" for example is whimsical nonsense, even the Belgians don't recognize such a thing....
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Re: Practical Lawful Dissent FMOTL antics, continued...

Post by Siegfried Shrink »

Take away 'common law' as envisaged by the fans of common law and nothing is left of the ideology whatsoever. It is the fount and origin of the imaginary world of alternative law, and removing it would leave them with nothing more than 'I do not consent' to bleat into the wilderness, with nothing 'legal' to temper the wind to the shorn lamb.

The love of common law seems to acknowledge a feeling that some sort of communal code of conduct is needed, they just do not really like the one that history and tradition has caused most people to adopt and learn to live with.

I suppose we should consider ourselves lucky in Britain, many of the popular topics of US conspiracy nuts do not seem to me to have gained any traction here, unless I am missing a lot. Dabbling in the babbling of the US barmy brook reveals insanity and a degree of imagination that luckily we seem to lack. Our loonies come not in batallions but as single spies, if I may misquote.
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Re: Practical Lawful Dissent FMOTL antics, continued...

Post by Burnaby49 »

Same thing here. Sovereign/Freeman types live and breath their right to chose common law over statutory law although they seem to know little about either. I've been to a number of tax evasion and counselling fraud trial, both statutory offenses, where the accused has kept insisting that he be tried under common law.

I can't recall ever getting an explanation from any of them about their love of common law but I think I can guess why. One of their foundation beliefs is "no harm, no offense", the position that they haven't broken any laws unless they can be proven to have actually harmed someone. This is extremely common in traffic offenses such as not having car insurance or not having a driver's license. These are statutory laws. They even use this for tax evasion defenses on the basis that no individual was actually harmed if the government was cheated of revenue. But statutory offenses aren't based on the concept of harm, just whether or not the individual did the offense as written in the statute. However torts, common law offenses, require harm.
A tort, in common law jurisdictions, is a civil wrong[1] that causes someone else to suffer loss or harm resulting in legal liability for the person who commits the tortious act.

The person who commits the act is called a tortfeasor. Although crimes may be torts, the cause of legal action is not necessarily a crime, as the harm may be due to negligence which does not amount to criminal negligence. The victim of the harm can recover their loss as damages in a lawsuit. In order to prevail, the plaintiff in the lawsuit, commonly referred to as the injured party, must show that the actions or lack of action was the legally recognizable cause of the harm. The equivalent of tort in civil law jurisdictions is delict.

Legal injuries are not limited to physical injuries and may include emotional, economic, or reputational injuries as well as violations of privacy, property, or constitutional rights. Torts comprise such varied topics as automobile accidents, false imprisonment, defamation, product liability, copyright infringement, and environmental pollution (toxic torts). While many torts are the result of negligence, tort law also recognizes intentional torts, where a person has intentionally acted in a way that harms another, and in a few cases (particularly for product liability in the United States) "strict liability" which allows recovery without the need to demonstrate negligence.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tort

So driving without insurance or without a license cannot be an offense in common law since you never harm anyone by doing either. If you have an accident and it's your fault then the offense is negligence. So you can, under Sovereign beliefs, quite legally do whatever you want regardless of statuory law unless you actually harm someone.
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Re: Practical Lawful Dissent FMOTL antics, continued...

Post by Hercule Parrot »

Siegfried Shrink wrote:Take away 'common law' as envisaged by the fans of common law and nothing is left of the ideology whatsoever. It is the fount and origin of the imaginary world of alternative law, and removing it would leave them with nothing more than 'I do not consent' to bleat into the wilderness, with nothing 'legal' to temper the wind to the shorn lamb.
Exactly so. It's as if they sat down one day and said "Let's insist that there is a historical, traditional form of English law which remains immutable by time, progress, Parliament or the Crown. As there is no evidence whatsoever of this, we can just make up anything we want. And with a bit of sly phrasing, we can imply that those imaginary laws are enforceable under modern legislation!"

And now they bleat that it's a crime against their human rights to make them pay tax, or to require them to have a licence and insurance for driving on public roads. Because it's the common law, right? Common law rights, common law principles, common law maxims!

To be honest, they deserve a lot more mockery and contempt than we give them.
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Re: Practical Lawful Dissent FMOTL antics, continued...

Post by longdog »

I do wonder to what extent their insistence on being heard by a 'common law court of record' is motivated by the fact that any reasonably intelligent person knows this is quite simply never going to happen. It can't have escaped their notice that this insistence on being heard by a 'common-law court' (as they define it) never, ever happens.

Are they insisting on something they know they are never going to get because it gives them the excuse to say, if I might paraphrase Scooby-Doo, "I would've succeeded too if it hadn't been for those meddling judges"?... "I'm not wrong and the fact that I lost proves I was right".
JULIAN: I recommend we try Per verulium ad camphorum actus injuria linctus est.
SANDY: That's your actual Latin.
HORNE: What does it mean?
JULIAN: I dunno - I got it off a bottle of horse rub, but it sounds good, doesn't it?
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Re: Practical Lawful Dissent FMOTL antics, continued...

Post by exiledscouser »

Ah but you forget.

They have a list. It's getting longer and I suspect you'll be on it Longers, just you wait and see.

Not me tho as I'm such a thoroughly nice chap. :P

They are building FILES, oh yes for when the great day arrives, the masses wake up, the sheeple revolt and all realise that Dismal Dave is the rightful Fuhrer.

Then it's hang everyone on the list, cancel all the parking tickets and utopia will have arrived.

You have been warned
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Re: Practical Lawful Dissent FMOTL antics, continued...

Post by Hercule Parrot »

exiledscouser wrote:Ah but you forget.
They have a list. It's getting longer and I suspect you'll be on it Longers, just you wait and see.
Not me tho as I'm such a thoroughly nice chap. :P
I like to think we are on the list in a special category - Quatloos membership being proscribed under penalty of death in Dismal Dave's concept of free speech.
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Re: Practical Lawful Dissent FMOTL antics, continued...

Post by He Who Knows »

Exiledscouser wrote: They are building FILES, oh yes for when the great day arrives, the masses wake up, the sheeple revolt and all realise that Dismal Dave is the rightful Fuhrer.
Then it's hang everyone on the list, cancel all the parking tickets and utopia will have arrived.
I suspect Jolyon Jenkins is first on the list - he was warned by Dismal Dave "we're gonna seize your home - but don't wanna do it - just in case you don't report the truth."
And the National Database of Traitors will be full to the brim with Quatloosians who've all had the gall to sit there on the sidelines pointing and laughing at PLD's 13,000 "people who have drawn the short straw in life".
Hangman Robert 'Crab-bait' White will be at the gallows - hoodless no doubt as he likes the attention - his second victim being the hapless man of letters from the Insolvency Service.
Let's hope the care home Dismal Dave lives in will let him back in after he's been on such jolly jaunts and japes. After all a Fuhrer (especially one with muscular dystrophy) does need a bed to sleep in following a particularly stressful day of invoking article 61.
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Re: Practical Lawful Dissent FMOTL antics, continued...

Post by grixit »

exiledscouser wrote:Ah but you forget.

They have a list. It's getting longer and I suspect you'll be on it Longers, just you wait and see.
And that singular anomaly,
The traitor magistrate!
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Re: Practical Lawful Dissent FMOTL antics, continued...

Post by Siegfried Shrink »

Treason never prospers, for if it prosper, none dare call it treason.
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Re: Practical Lawful Dissent FMOTL antics, continued...

Post by longdog »

Finally a follow up to...
Robert White
7 February at 09:34

Is there anyone here that doesn't like the council tax system? If so the common law court will be doing something about it soon, if you would like to be a part of it just type YES in the comments. As soon as it's ready to go I'll message everyone interested with further details.
Viz...
Robert White

Right here's the link for all those that said YES, I will post a new post with links and if anyone needs any help just ask. Please type DONE when submitted successfully, thanks. https://www.commonlawcourt.com/public-notice

Linky reads..
STATEMENT OF CLAIM

COMMON LAW COURT, GREAT BRITAIN

Venue to be confirmed

During the month of March 2018

STATEMENT OF CLAIM

In the matter of

John Smith & Others, Great Britain (Pursuers)

v

Existing Local Authorities within Great Britain (Respondents)

​We, John Smith and others, submit our statement of claim against the above Respondents. Their failure to comply with contract law, established their unlawful behaviour in relation to the collection of Council Tax.

​Dispute

The dispute exists between the above parties and involves the unlawful behaviour of the authorities concerned. The authorities are using fraudulent means and theft to extort and obtain council tax payments.

Alleged Wrong


The Respondents are enforcing illegal contracts on to the Pursuers and fraudulently using the judicial system to extract payments. The Respondents are using unlawful wage arrestment orders, are bankrupting people for non payment and using the statutory courts to imprison people. In addition to the above, the Respondents are failing to account properly and are failing to obtain the consent of the people for expenditure.

Remedy Sought


The Pursuers require a court order to annul existing council tax legislation and to prevent the unlawful collection of council tax. This order to remain in force until such time as the failings within the existing system have been addressed.

The Pursuers also seek an order that will confirm; any individual involved in the unlawful collection of council tax will be committing a crime under Common Law against the people, therefore, they will be held liable for damages in their personal capacity. By operation of law, these requests are necessary to provide a lawful remedy

​​Name: John Smith & Others
So pretty much what everybody would've predicted. John Smith the man has applied to John Smith the court for a court order from John Smith the judge. Presumably John Smith the Clerk to the Court, John Smith the jury (all twelve of them), John Smith the usher and John Smith the cleaning lady will all be playing their part :snicker:
JULIAN: I recommend we try Per verulium ad camphorum actus injuria linctus est.
SANDY: That's your actual Latin.
HORNE: What does it mean?
JULIAN: I dunno - I got it off a bottle of horse rub, but it sounds good, doesn't it?
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Re: Practical Lawful Dissent FMOTL antics, continued...

Post by Siegfried Shrink »

What a shame council tax is a matter of statute not contract, and that no court can order a law cancelled or whatever they want.

No, I'm wrong, imaginary courts are capable of anything as long as there is no need for any but imaginary action to be taken.

What always puzzles me is why a long and consistent history of total failure has not had any impression. I'd be going over to what appears to be the winning side by now, or at least making sure I was standing well to the rear while encouraging the others onward. I'd have that return ticket ready, or the car facing outward with the engine running.

They'd be too stupid to take their cock to a wedding night.
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Re: Practical Lawful Dissent FMOTL antics, continued...

Post by aesmith »

Issued by John Smith & Others on the 10th March 2018 in the community of Great Britain.
Time travel now?
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Re: Practical Lawful Dissent FMOTL antics, continued...

Post by exiledscouser »

aesmith wrote:
Issued by John Smith & Others on the 10th March 2018 in the community of Great Britain.
Time travel now?
That’s the common law calendar in action. Always ahead of everyone else.

This is just footle click-bait for the usual armchair warriors.
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Re: Practical Lawful Dissent FMOTL antics, continued...

Post by Hercule Parrot »

Robert White
7 February at 09:34

Is there anyone here that doesn't like the council tax system? If so the common law court will be doing something about it soon, if you would like to be a part of it just type YES in the comments. As soon as it's ready to go I'll message everyone interested with further details.

STATEMENT OF CLAIM
COMMON LAW COURT, GREAT BRITAIN:
A pointless claim. If it is successful, I will immediately appeal it to Longdog's supreme common law court.
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