Random Freemanesque Babblings from idiots unable to sustain their own thread

[longdog]

But if that was the reason for disqualifying the attending solicitor then why quote the legislation relating to Lay Representatives? And once a hearing date is given they'd know that it wasn't going to be decided on the papers. (Edit, Parking Eye have been using LPC law for a while, I find it hard to believe they sent an unqualified rep)

If Parking Eye's representative had been a qualified solicitor they would have automatically had right of audience.

I would've thought that any properly appointed representative of a company would be entitled to act 'in person' in court as the company's agent and their legal qualifications or lack thereof would be irrelevant. As far as I know there's nothing to stop an artificial 'corporate' person acting 'in person' as it were.

[King Lud]

Companies like Parking Eye have been abusing drivers and the court system for years. If they want to take thousands of people to court then they should be made to play by the rules and not pay for cut-price/unqualified legal reps. Hopefully the Private Members Bill going through at the moment will put them firmly back in their box.

[Hercule Parrot]

If Parking Eye's representative had been a qualified solicitor they would have automatically had right of audience.

I would've thought that any properly appointed representative of a company would be entitled to act 'in person' in court as the company's agent and their legal qualifications or lack thereof would be irrelevant. As far as I know there's nothing to stop an artificial 'corporate' person acting 'in person' as it were.

Yes, an authorized company employee can act as their agent in a court, but that doesn't mean they get full right of audience. Boots plc can send a sales assistant to represent them at the High Court if they choose, but s/he doesn't miraculously transform into a lawyer upon entering the court. And of course in this case the proposed "advocate" was not an employee of Parking Eye (possibly not an employee of LPC Law either), so it's a red herring.

There's a useful article here https://www.lawgazette.co.uk/57199.article which sets out the position quite well.

[aesmith]

Is it normal for a County Court order to contain all the reasoning behind the decision? The few that I've seen haven't done so, just the decision itself. That so called order reads more like a judgement.

[Dr. Caligari]

I would've thought that any properly appointed representative of a company would be entitled to act 'in person' in court as the company's agent and their legal qualifications or lack thereof would be irrelevant. As far as I know there's nothing to stop an artificial 'corporate' person acting 'in person' as it were.

Just as a point of interest, that would not be true in the United States. A human being may represent herself or himself in court without a lawyer, but, unless admitted to the bar, a human being cannot represent anyone else (a husband cannot represent his wife or child; a corporate officer cannot represent the corporation, even if he's the sole shareholder; a trustee cannot represent a trust; etc.)

[ArthurWankspittle]

Just as a point of interest, that would not be true in the United States. A human being may represent herself or himself in court without a lawyer, but, unless admitted to the bar, a human being cannot represent anyone else (a husband cannot represent his wife or child; a corporate officer cannot represent the corporation, even if he's the sole shareholder; a trustee cannot represent a trust; etc.)

I think the difference is that a person may be present to represent the business/another person but the representation is seriously limited as only recognised and qualified persons are allowed to perform "advocacy" and be recognised by the court as such. In this parking case the defendant had questioned the status of the parking company's representative and the judge's enquiries revealed that they weren't a fully qualified solicitor, therefore they had no automatic right to be in court perform "advocacy" on behalf of the plaintiff.

[longdog]

Whilst I'm happy to bow to the superior knowledge of my fellow Quatloosians I'm confused as to where the line is between representing the interests of a corporate 'person' and the right of audience.

Lets say I was running Longdog Motors as a sole trader and I was suing a customer for a simple case of an unpaid bill for a new engine. Surely I would be entitled to act in person in court without the need to employ a lawyer. Extending that a bit what if I were purely the business owner and the business were run by a manager... Would they not be entitled to represent the business in court?

[eric]

It gets awkward depending upon your jurisdiction and whether the business was registered as a corporation or sole proprietership. There are advantages and disadvantages to both concerning liabilities and taxes but IANAL. In general, in North America, a director of a corporation cannot represent themselves but YRMV.

[Mike_p]

Just for the record: in the UK I have been an expert witness in a county court case where a one-man-band limited company was represented by the owner. The judge was very accomodating to him and gave
lots of leeway and guidance.

[Siegfried Shrink]

Was the business owner the defendant or the plaintiff?

[Hercule Parrot]

Just for the record: in the UK I have been an expert witness in a county court case where a one-man-band limited company was represented by the owner. The judge was very accomodating to him and gave lots of leeway and guidance.

I'm sure that's right, but the distinction we are struggling with is between representing and conducting proceedings in the role of a lawyer. To be facetious, Tesco might choose to send a 19yr old trolley collector to represent them before the Supreme Court. I imagine he would be allowed to speak for the company, but not to conduct proceedings in the role of a lawyer. Perhaps one of our UK solicitor members can refer us to guidance which clarifies?

[Mike_p]

Was the business owner the defendant or the plaintiff?

He was the plaintiff. Was chasing an unpaid invoice. He'd been hired to give advice on what equipment would be appropriate to perform certain tasks and to supply accordingly. Having supplied, the equipment, it did not perform the task required and despite several weeks of attempting to tweak it he gave up and demanded payment. I was hired to give an opinion on whether the stuff he supplied met the requirements of the original (written) request.

[aesmith]

Posted by Tom Crawford on PLD, but really I think belongs under the random idiots category.
"This is an opportunity to listen to speakers who have the provable remedies to the problems..". And these speakers with "provable remedies" .. Tom C, Michael Waugh, David Robinson and some others I don't recognise.

[grixit]

I was wondering why warn people with mobility problems that the meeting is on the first floor. but then i remembered that in Britain they call the second floor the first floor.

The next thing i noticed is there is no price of admission mentioned, but it also doesn't say it's free. Does anyone know if they'll be charging? If not who pays for the hall reservation and lunch for Tom Crawford and all?

[ArthurWankspittle]

I was wondering why warn people with mobility problems that the meeting is on the first floor. but then i remembered that in Britain they call the second floor the first floor.

Yes the UK has Ground Floor as the first level. It would be amusing to be on the ground floor videoing all the benefit and disability claiming participants gleefully bounding up the stairs.

[SteveUK]

I was wondering why warn people with mobility problems that the meeting is on the first floor. but then i remembered that in Britain they call the second floor the first floor.

Yes the UK has Ground Floor as the first level. It would be amusing to be on the ground floor videoing all the benefit and disability claiming participants gleefully bounding up the stairs.

It’s also a very steep tricky staircase. Even when sober.

I might pop down for the occasion,
It’s only 5 mins away.

[Siegfried Shrink]

I might pop down for the occasion,
It’s only 5 mins away.

This would be an act of heroic self sacrifice, not only would keeping a straight face for hours be almost impossible for any lesser man, but what I consider the most useful function of any gathering, the chance to hook up with some nubile elf for some hanky-panky would be really unfeasible.
Any pictures I have seen of the rebel hordes, however digitally enhanced, have failed to provoke a single groinal twich since the fragrant Hannah Rose vanished from sov-twittery a couple of years ago. How come pseudo-legality seems to hold no attraction for anyone under 40? They should send recruiters into the universities, there must be someone who does not have a restraining order.

But my guess it will never actually happen due to lack of interest, lost bus passes and no mobile credit.

[Wakeman52]

Isn't John Smith the judge, jury & executioner of the 'Scottish Common Law Court' so beloved of Robert 'Crab Bait' White'?

[SteveUK]

He’s someone who had a case heard by them, and won !!!!1!!!

http://jsmith3165.wixsite.com/richardklemmer

If he were also one of the ‘courts ‘ ‘judge & jury’ then my irony detector would be going into overtime.

[SteveUK]

I might pop down for the occasion,
It’s only 5 mins away.

This would be an act of heroic self sacrifice, not only would keeping a straight face for hours be almost impossible for any lesser man, but what I consider the most useful function of any gathering, the chance to hook up with some nubile elf for some hanky-panky would be really unfeasible.
Any pictures I have seen of the rebel hordes, however digitally enhanced, have failed to provoke a single groinal twich since the fragrant Hannah Rose vanished from sov-twittery a couple of years ago. How come pseudo-legality seems to hold no attraction for anyone under 40? They should send recruiters into the universities, there must be someone who does not have a restraining order.

But my guess it will never actually happen due to lack of interest, lost bus passes and no mobile credit.

I might go along and see how long I can last or need to scream ‘this is all bollocks’ every time they pipe up.

Naturally I’ll take along a home note prom note for any donation required.