OPPT (One Person's Public Trial) - Tucci-Jarraf

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Heather will decide to head for the hills:

Before her next hearing
1
2%
After her next hearing
2
5%
Before her trial
13
32%
Before her sentencing
18
44%
Never - she wants to experience BEing and DOing behind bars.
7
17%
 
Total votes: 41

KickahaOta
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Re: OPPT (One Person's Public Trial) - Tucci-Jarraf

Post by KickahaOta »

AndyK wrote: Thu Jul 26, 2018 6:02 pm Putting on my "Amazing Carsoni" turban:

"Appeal dismissed for failure to state anywhere near a legitimate cause. Appellant's claims fail to refer to any issues of trial but merely repeat timeworn, Internet-based arguments which have been held to be frivolous thousands of times. Costs awarded to government and appellant is enjoined from further filings without the express permission of the court."
Theoretically possible but extremely unlikely. I can't recall seeing a case where sanctions beyond "Appeal dismissed" were imposed against a defendant on direct appeal; the courts are fiercely protective of people's appeal rights, and pursuing an appeal stupidly (and thus missing the chance to raise valid claims) is something of its own punishment.

Now, once the direct appeal cycle is finished, and the defendant starts playing "let's see what label I can put on this filing to try to disguise the fact that it's actually my third habeas petition," then yes, the sanctions can start flying.
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Re: OPPT (One Person's Public Trial) - Tucci-Jarraf

Post by wserra »

AndyK wrote: Thu Jul 26, 2018 6:02 pm Putting on my "Amazing Carsoni" turban:
That's "Carnac the Magnificent". Please.

Image

Sis. Boom. Bah.




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Re: OPPT (One Person's Public Trial) - Tucci-Jarraf

Post by wserra »

KickahaOta wrote: Thu Jul 26, 2018 7:02 pmI can't recall seeing a case where sanctions beyond "Appeal dismissed" were imposed against a defendant on direct appeal
Criminal direct appeal. Agreed.
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Re: OPPT (One Person's Public Trial) - Tucci-Jarraf

Post by Athis »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIVpzxKmSPo&t=789s

Sheila has been talking to the trees. They refused to give her their names (maybe they are sovereign trees). Sheila thinks they dont trust humans - which makes sense. The trees dont think Heather and Randy's conviction and sentencing signals the dissolution of the world's governments and banking system or the salvation and ascension of humanity and the world. However BZ explained that the trees have seen this moment come and go before, seven times, when humanity failed to make the grade and ascend. But this time we made it. Naturally it will take a little while for the linear to catch up with the quantuum. Just thought you would all like to know that in spite of all appearances to the contrary Heather and Randy's mission succeeded. The world as we knew it is over. Funtastical times ahead. All aboard the Happy Train.
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Re: OPPT (One Person's Public Trial) - Tucci-Jarraf

Post by KickahaOta »

wserra wrote: Thu Jul 26, 2018 7:04 pm
KickahaOta wrote: Thu Jul 26, 2018 7:02 pmI can't recall seeing a case where sanctions beyond "Appeal dismissed" were imposed against a defendant on direct appeal
Criminal direct appeal. Agreed.
Great clarification. On a frivolous civil direct appeal, keep your checkbook handy.
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Re: OPPT (One Person's Public Trial) - Tucci-Jarraf

Post by Tevildo »

May I ask a practical question? Based on the last few posts in this thread, am I right in thinking that, in the States, there's an automatic right of appeal, at least from a criminal conviction? The appellant doesn't need to get permission from the appelate court beforehand?
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Re: OPPT (One Person's Public Trial) - Tucci-Jarraf

Post by Resume »

Athis wrote: Thu Jul 26, 2018 7:24 pm https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIVpzxKmSPo&t=789s

Sheila has been talking to the trees. They refused to give her their names (maybe they are sovereign trees). Sheila thinks they dont trust humans - which makes sense. The trees dont think Heather and Randy's conviction and sentencing signals the dissolution of the world's governments and banking system or the salvation and ascension of humanity and the world. However BZ explained that the trees have seen this moment come and go before, seven times, when humanity failed to make the grade and ascend. But this time we made it. Naturally it will take a little while for the linear to catch up with the quantuum. Just thought you would all like to know that in spite of all appearances to the contrary Heather and Randy's mission succeeded. The world as we knew it is over. Funtastical times ahead. All aboard the Happy Train.
Toot toot!
I don't think BZ believes most of the quantum sewage she is spoon-feeding those two nodding dolts. She's guru-ing. She's cultivating a garden that HATJ helped plant but will be absent to harvest. She's been talking this ascension for a long time now, and like Christ's return, it's always just around the corner. She may be deluded, but not to the extent of Heather's befuddled followers; she seems to just be working a built-in base of credules.

My observations only.

ETA: Sheila needs to lighten up on the eyeliner; she's 60, not 16.
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Re: OPPT (One Person's Public Trial) - Tucci-Jarraf

Post by KickahaOta »

Tevildo wrote: Thu Jul 26, 2018 8:06 pm May I ask a practical question? Based on the last few posts in this thread, am I right in thinking that, in the States, there's an automatic right of appeal, at least from a criminal conviction? The appellant doesn't need to get permission from the appelate court beforehand?
Short answer: Yes.

Long answer: According to the Supreme Court, there is not actually a constitutional right to an appeal. If a state government wanted to say "You get your trial, and that's it -- no appeals", that would be okay. However, as a matter of practice, every state in the US except Virginia (as well as the federal judicial system) does allow the defendant in a criminal trial a right to appeal a criminal conviction (Appeals in Virginia are at the court's discretion.). And the Supreme Court has said that, if a state does allow an appeal, then the state has to provide counsel on appeal to people who can't afford it (subject to the Anders process we've discussed).

TL;DR answer: So for a state court criminal defendant, the process goes like this (assuming that every step ends badly for the defendant):
  • State trial court. Counsel provided to indigent defendants (though appointed counsel is often overworked or bad).
  • Appeal to state appellate-level court. Always allowed if the defendant requests it. Counsel provided to indigent defendants (same problem).
  • Some sort of petition to the state's highest-level court (which may be named the Supreme Court or something else). This is almost never a "right"; the state court can almost always reject petitions at its own discretion, and most high courts reject most of them. Appointed counsel for indigents is generally not provided.
  • Petition to US Supreme Court. Supreme Court can reject petitions at its own discretion. Unless it's a death penalty case, the odds of the US Supreme Court accepting a petition at this stage are basically zero. Appointed counsel may or may not be available, depending on what part of the country (what circuit) you're in. If you actually get a petition granted (which just means "The Supreme Court will hear your arguments about the case", not "You win"), then you'll generally have no shortage of attorneys offering to take the case for free in order to have a chance to argue before the Supreme Court.
  • Post-conviction proceedings, generally back at the trial court. This is where issues are raised that require factfinding beyond what was originally done in the trial court. For example, this is almost always where "My trial counsel was incompetent" claims are heard, since that requires factfinding about what trial counsel did (or didn't do) and why. Appointed counsel for indigents rarely required or provided, with one exception: if the state doesn't allow ineffective-assistance claims on direct appeal (which most states don't), then counsel has to be provided to argue the ineffective-assistance issue.
  • Some sort of post-conviction appeal process, which varies widely by state.
  • Petition to US Supreme Court, which again almost never works.
  • Federal habeas corpus petition in a federal district court. This is typically the first time that the federal system gets involved in a state case, and it can only consider claims that the earlier proceedings violated the US constitution (not claims that the earlier proceedings violated state law or the state constitution). Review is extremely limited; you basically need to be able to point to an earlier Supreme Court case that's squarely on point and that was made retroactive. The district court can recruit counsel in exceptional cases, but other than that, no counsel is provided to indigents.
  • Appeal to a federal circuit court of appeals, which is complicated by the need for a "certificate of appealability". The district court will grant a certificate if it thinks that the outcome of the case is debatable; otherwise you have to ask the circuit court for a certificate, which is rarely granted at that level.
  • Petition to US Supreme Court. This is only allowed if either the district court or the circuit court granted a certificate of appealability earlier. And even then the Supreme Court has the usual right to reject the petition, and almost always does. (These days the Supreme Court steps in more often to reverse a grant of habeas relief to a defendant than it does to reverse a denial of relief.)
For a federal criminal defendant the process is simpler:
  • Plea bargain or trial in federal district court. Counsel provided.
  • Appeal as of right to federal circuit court. Counsel provided.
  • Petition to US Supreme Court, which is discretionary, and which is considerably more likely to be granted than it would in a state case, but is still very rarely granted.
  • Habeas corpus petition in federal district court to settle claims that need post-trial factfinding.
  • Appeal to federal circuit court.
  • Petition to US Supreme Court, which is discretionary and rarely works.
Edited: Added Virginia exception; added that some circuits do provide help with cert petitions; fixed a couple of other typos.
Last edited by KickahaOta on Fri Jul 27, 2018 4:25 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: OPPT (One Person's Public Trial) - Tucci-Jarraf

Post by morrand »

KickahaOta wrote: Thu Jul 26, 2018 9:43 pm
Tevildo wrote: Thu Jul 26, 2018 8:06 pm May I ask a practical question? Based on the last few posts in this thread, am I right in thinking that, in the States, there's an automatic right of appeal, at least from a criminal conviction? The appellant doesn't need to get permission from the appelate court beforehand?
Short answer: Yes.

Long answer: According to the Supreme Court, there is not actually a constitutional right to an appeal.
See also Underhill, Kevin. "Seriously, Though: Nobody Has the Right to Appeal". Lowering the Bar (Dec. 2, 2016) (accessed...er, today).
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Re: OPPT (One Person's Public Trial) - Tucci-Jarraf

Post by grixit »

Don't forget the Browns' favorite: Review and Revision.
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Re: OPPT (One Person's Public Trial) - Tucci-Jarraf

Post by Gregg »

According to the Geneva conventions (which the corp “US” has
signed on to) it is punishable by death to change someone’s political status
without their knowledge and/or consent thru forced presumption. But, that is exactly
what has happened.
Bryan of the family : Clueless posted this at the end of a long and incoherent post, but I just couldn't let it go. Does he know that the Geneva Convention is actually about Prisoners of War? Also, since when did The Geneva Convention have any death penalties. I know it does allow them for people classed as spies and not POWs but that's not because it specifies it, it just kind of says "Spies are another department, go ahead and shoot them for all we care".
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Re: OPPT (One Person's Public Trial) - Tucci-Jarraf

Post by KickahaOta »

morrand wrote: Thu Jul 26, 2018 11:55 pm
See also Underhill, Kevin. "Seriously, Though: Nobody Has the Right to Appeal". Lowering the Bar (Dec. 2, 2016) (accessed...er, today).
Great article, thanks. So I was wrong; if you're a defendant in Virginia state court, even the direct appeal is at the court's discretion.
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Re: OPPT (One Person's Public Trial) - Tucci-Jarraf

Post by Tevildo »

Thanks, everyone, for the information! I didn't really appreciate how much the procedure varies from State to State. Now to spend some time with the articles linked from the LTB post...
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Re: OPPT (One Person's Public Trial) - Tucci-Jarraf

Post by NYGman »

You are forgetting the last step, once all the above have been completed HATJ will have all the evidence required to show the absolute corruption in the system. She will send this directly to President Trump and will get an automatic pardon. However, this can't happen until the appeals process has been exhausted. Go Heather!
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Re: OPPT (One Person's Public Trial) - Tucci-Jarraf

Post by wserra »

Excellent summary. Another quibble, however (hey, what are lawyers for?):
KickahaOta wrote: Thu Jul 26, 2018 9:43 pmFor a federal criminal defendant the process is simpler:
  • Plea bargain or trial in federal district court. Counsel provided.
  • Appeal as of right to federal circuit court. Counsel provided.
  • Petition to US Supreme Court, which is discretionary, and which is considerably more likely to be granted than it would in a state case, but is still very rarely granted.
In several Circuits, appointed counsel on appeal are required to prepare and submit cert petitions, subject to the Anders considerations we discuss above. For example, Second Circuit Local Rule 4.1(c):
Within 14 days after a decision by this court that is adverse to the defendant, appointed counsel may file a motion in this court to be relieved of the obligation to file a petition for a writ of certiorari with the U.S. Supreme Court if counsel has reasonable grounds to believe that the petition would have no likelihood of success. The motion must be accompanied by proof of service on the defendant and the government. The motion must also state that counsel has explained to the defendant how to file a timely petition for certiorari pro se.
Emphasis supplied. Basically, in those Circuits, the summary should include "Counsel provided" for the cert petition under similar conditions as on direct appeal, substituting "no likelihood of success" for "no non-frivolous issues".
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Re: OPPT (One Person's Public Trial) - Tucci-Jarraf

Post by Siegfried Shrink »

You are forgetting the last step, once all the above have been completed HATJ will have all the evidence required to show the absolute corruption in the system. She will send this directly to President Trump
Ah! But what if Mr Trump is also corrupt? Is it then time for the space aliens to step in?

Surely if the system is absolutely corrupt, there is no one to show the evidence to who will not laugh at the naivety and discard it, or stamp 'refused for cause, etc,' all over it and return it to sender's prison cell.
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Re: OPPT (One Person's Public Trial) - Tucci-Jarraf

Post by KickahaOta »

wserra wrote: Fri Jul 27, 2018 11:09 am Excellent summary. Another quibble, however (hey, what are lawyers for?):

In several Circuits, appointed counsel on appeal are required to prepare and submit cert petitions, subject to the Anders considerations we discuss above.
Thank you! Edited.
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Re: OPPT (One Person's Public Trial) - Tucci-Jarraf

Post by AndyK »

Presidential (and most other) pardon:

A prerequisite for a pardon (present administration procedures excepted) is for the pardonee to acknowledge guilt and formally state so.

No way is Heather EVER going to do so.
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Re: OPPT (One Person's Public Trial) - Tucci-Jarraf

Post by notorial dissent »

AndyK wrote: Fri Jul 27, 2018 9:35 pm Presidential (and most other) pardon:

A prerequisite for a pardon (present administration procedures excepted) is for the pardonee to acknowledge guilt and formally state so.

No way is Heather EVER going to do so.
Yeah that, in spades. :snicker:
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Re: OPPT (One Person's Public Trial) - Tucci-Jarraf

Post by TheNewSaint »

AndyK wrote: Fri Jul 27, 2018 9:35 pm Presidential (and most other) pardon:

A prerequisite for a pardon (present administration procedures excepted) is for the pardonee to acknowledge guilt and formally state so.

No way is Heather EVER going to do so.
I disagree. I'm sure Heather could craft a suitable admission of guilt that didn't actually admit any guilt. It's a small price to pay. Not only would Heather get out of jail free, she'd have her fantasy world personally acknowledged by the President of the United States. And boy, would that re-open the floodgates to people making TDA attempts.