One down, three to go

[Demosthenes]

And it looks like Donnna really really wants her heroes to rot for the rest of their lives in prison. Interesting.

vanmeter said...
Keep up the good work guys. Im proud of all of you! and yeah too bad huh for the quatloos peeps, they dont know how strong these Four men are! lol lost your little poll didnt you guys hehe, I know most likely I will be reading this later over there. I think some of the friends and supporters of the Four and E+E should get their own accounts there, since they infiltrated myspace and nhunderground forums I think we should frequent their haunts too.
Anyways GREAT JOB everyone!

All cult sheep are indeed welcome here. A little dose of reality can only do you good.

[Demosthenes]

Tone it down, Captain.

[webhick]

She thinks that firing their lawyers will stop them from ratting out their friends....how adorable. Like the Easter Bunny scene in Critters.

Since my criminal law experience is limited to shows like "Law & Order" (and lawyer drama books and movies), do they really have up until the jury hands down the verdict to plea out? And then they have up until the sentence is handed down to squeal for a reduced sentence?

[wserra]

do they really have up until the jury hands down the verdict to plea out?

One can always plead guilty to all charges, right up until the verdict. That's not the best way to minimize one's time, however. In fact, short of actually going to verdict, that's the best way to maximize one's time. The best deals are generally to be had early.

Strangely enough, now would be an excellent time for someone to break the logjam these cretins have blundered themselves into. The first to plead and cooperate will get a deal.

And then they have up until the sentence is handed down to squeal for a reduced sentence?

Right. Although the Guidelines are no longer binding, cooperation is still far and away the shortest route to the shortest sentence. Right or wrong.

[wserra]

Posted on the Dogwalker's Brother's "send me money now" blog:

(sorry to let the boot lickers over at Quatloos down)

I hope he's looking forward to visiting his brother at FCI Prudhomme Bay for the next twenty years.

OTOH, most of these guys would forget their mothers after, say, eighteen months.

[Demosthenes]

Reno is looking at a sentence of closer to 30 years, and if his prints and/or DNA are found on any of the 80+ bombs found on the property, he will spend his the rest of his life in federal prison.

[wserra]

Reno is looking at a sentence of closer to 30 years, and if his prints and/or DNA are found on any of the 80+ bombs found on the property, he will spend his the rest of his life in federal prison.

Right. I was being generous.

I posted the details several weeks ago. Per 18 USC 924(c), each firearm conviction is a mandatory 5 years consecutive, and each "explosive device" conviction is a mandatory 30.

Eighty-plus? I didn't know there were that many.

[notorial dissent]

I'm betting that none of the four bright lights of the movement have sense enough to have actually thought about what they can be charged with or what they are facing as a result of their little adventure. I'm also not sure if they are bright enough to see beyond their own self imposed aura of sanctity, since they all think they haven't done anything wrong, they are convinced they are the ones being imposed upon as can be seen from thier writings.

Of course, if any of them had been very bright to begin with, they wouldn't have tried to get themselves between two Federal fugatives and the Marshall's service and not expected to get shot or shot at. They are incredibly lucky that the worst thing that happened to them was that they got arrested.

One does not stare down a speeding locomotive and not expect to become road pizza.

[Nikki]

Reno is looking at a sentence of closer to 30 years, and if his prints and/or DNA are found on any of the 80+ bombs found on the property, he will spend his the rest of his life in federal prison.

I assume (shudder) that the above applies to anyone who has fingerprints or DNA (found on any of the bombs) on file and is traceable.

If DoJ decides to institute serious prosecution of every single person who ever touched any of those gadgets, We are going to be looking at a loooong series of messages from prison from Ed: family of IED.

On the plus side, perhaps his incarceration will give him enough time to complete his remedial English course for his GED.

[grixit]

One does not stare down a speeding locomotive and not expect to become road pizza.

Or you think you're big and rich.

[Imalawman]

I take unbage at being considered a boot-licker. I want it to go on record I have NEVER licked any boots, or even polished any apples.

ahem...I think you meant umbrage...

I am amazed at how blind these guys are appearing to be. I just can't bring myself to understand how they hold out any hope of winning in court. Have they never learned to do a basic cost/benefit analysis? Man, the best bet is too kiss some serious gov't butt and at least have most of your life outside of prison. But I guess they'd prefer federal "pound-me-in-the-ass" prison to being free.

[Judge Roy Bean]

ahem...I think you meant umbrage...

I am amazed at how blind these guys are appearing to be. I just can't bring myself to understand how they hold out any hope of winning in court. Have they never learned to do a basic cost/benefit analysis? Man, the best bet is too kiss some serious gov't butt and at least have most of your life outside of prison. But I guess they'd prefer federal "pound-me-in-the-ass" prison to being free.

They aren't blind, they just filter everything through a set of mythological conspiracy lenses. They really don't see what we see. They read what we read but interpret it differently because they assign motives to mysteries they can't wrap their minds around.

If you have or have had children, this behavior is easily recognized. You tell the adolescent child that some kind of behavior is dangerous and immediately the child is going to try and prove you're wrong, either by pointing out the fact that others manage to survive things you condemn or perhaps even going so far as to try it to make the point.

The people who fall for these kinds of myths wrestle with an almost permanent inner conflict between what they think they believe and their inability to understand why so few people accept or share in their belief system. This can become psychologically debilitating if the holder of the strange beliefs cannot find anyone to accept them. From time to time we see the most extreme cases of this phenomenon living under bridges railing against the signals from Venus.

But for those who can function at some social norm, they eventually talk themselves into a corner their ego won't allow them to step out of and the fantasy becomes more and more a part of their reality. Intrusion into it by a symbol of authority often results in childish actions, petulance and in some cases, self-destructive behavior.

And all you really need to trigger one of these people into being what we consider stupid in a courtroom is applause from the mob, or in today's Internet world, site hits and forum posts.

[Demosthenes]

Joe Haas reports on the first half of Bob Wolffe's bail hearing.

The Bail Hearing for Bob is being conducted in two parts today:

1.) Part #1 went from about 11- 12:30 p.m. in Courtroom B; +

2.) Part #2 is going from 1:15 p.m. to the end in Courtroom #5.

The Courtroom #5 has the monitor(s) for the video and link to the website that his Attorney Garrity wants the Magistrate Muirehead to see and hear before his decision to grant bail. Garrity said it was O.K. for the judge to view them in chambers, but he said he'd like an open/ public hearing when either side can ask that he rewind if wanted to re-view to emphasise something.

The prosecutor started off familiarizing the magistrate with the case, and told of how Danny made a proffer of Bob seeing the tannerite being made into tree bombs, and that Bob offered to bring some containers for such, but that could be used for signal wind-chimes too is what Bob said out-of-turn.

His attorney then rebutted to the fact of Bob sending an e-mail to Valerie since he could not open the attachment on his computer, and neither could she at her office, but the prosecutor highlighting that it was some handbook on how to kill intruders. Bob's attorney countered with: yes, that was printed during the cold war between us and a possible Soviet Union / Russian take-over of our country back then.

Garrity then asked the judge if three of Bob's friends could talk, and she did plus her husband, and then Lois Gardner (of Jail4Judges BTW but not mentioned, who took over after Fred Davideit quit as our N.H. Commander). They spoke from behind the railing for about 2-minutes each and did a great job of highlighting Bob as not a threat to the public, and that couple even offering to hire Bob to work for them at their company.

What was also stated by Garrity was that Bob is NOT a flight risk because of the minimum amount of time that he COULD get IF convicted would only be eight months, but then Huffington, or whatever his name is, said that IF his finderprints are on the items (that COULD be wind chimes, OR something else), then it could be more time, to which the magistrated then said: 30 years to life, but unlike Judge Singal who said last Friday (in Bob's or Danny's hearing, I forget), it's only a recommendation from Congress to impose such a sentence within this range IF found guilty.

The government prosecutor then said that the federal laboratory is still conducting its finderprint tests, but that the results are not in yet. So maybe the judge might wait a week for this, or grant bail on some condition that IF found, then that might have been the straw that broke the camel's back to have said no? and for a re-call?

I'll report back to here later this afternoon of the result.

Yours truly, - - Joe

[ErsatzAnatchist]

So go ahead Danny, or 'Rino, or ANY of their relative, call me a boot-licker, because I am the one that is FREE and not looking at growing old in Federal prison, having carpped my life down the toilet like Brown's Clowns. Chumps.

You send fish down a toilet? (Spell check is your friend. )

More on topic, I am amazed about the popularity of Quatloos among the Free Ed Brown movement. I think the only one missing is Reno's dad.

Oh yeah, and the mine canary himself, Randy Weaver.

[.]

tree bombs

What's next? The arsenal of Ed: family soon to be convicted bombers of many types, and soon to be confined for life apparently has an almost limitless number of bomber subdivisions.

[Quixote]

His attorney then rebutted to the fact of Bob sending an e-mail to Valerie since he could not open the attachment on his computer, and neither could she at her office, ...

So Valerie's story is that she tried but failed to open the document attached to the e-mail Bob never sent her? Interesting.

[Demosthenes]

His attorney then rebutted to the fact of Bob sending an e-mail to Valerie since he could not open the attachment on his computer, and neither could she at her office, but the prosecutor highlighting that it was some handbook on how to kill intruders. Bob's attorney countered with: yes, that was printed during the cold war between us and a possible Soviet Union / Russian take-over of our country back then.

I purchased the book in question. Judge for yourselves.

Page 72, from a chapter entitled "Getting at Them".

One of the easiest places in the world for someone to get away with murder is a hospital. People die all the time in hospitals and no one ever suspects or looks for foul play. You don't have to work in a hospital to get access to the patients. During visiting hours, they let anyone in. Outside of visiting hours, people dressed in hospital uniforms of doctors, nurses, food-service personnel, or volunteer workers can move about the floors without challenge.

Some military hospitals require all employees to wear identity cards, but those can be stolen or easily faked.

Say that you know that the staff aide to the local commissar is in the hospital with a case of bleeding ulcers. You walk in off the street during visitor hours, steal a white robe, hang a stethoscope around your neck and walk into his room while he is sleeping. The things you can do are endless.

Monkey around with the IV bottle until you get a large air bubble heading for his vein. Pull the plug on the respirator if he is on one. Wake him up and give him a pill that will aggravate his condition. Smother him with a pillow.

The secret is opportunity and imagination. The more casual and expected the chance meeting, the better the opportunity for inflicting damage and getting away with it.

[Demosthenes]

Next random page (47) Chapter: Fight For Your Freedom

As long as you hurt only the target groups, the ordinary citizen will secretly cheer you on. He will also resent and resist the security measures that the government will impose in order to catch and stop you. But start hurting ordinary citizens, and they will line up to cooperate with the government, giving away every freedom in order to stop you.

Another excerpt from the same page:

For example, if you live in a remote rural area, near a resort where high ranking officials take a little rest and relaxation, you might find the perfect opportunity to take out a particularly nasty commissar who happens to walk into the scope sight you have been holding for three days, waiting for just such a chance. But you would be wasting your time dropping anti-government leaflets on the one bus stop bench in town. Leave that kind of propaganda to the boys in the city.

[Demosthenes]

And of course, the book isn't really about killing Commie invaders during the Cold War...

From the chapter "Caught and too fat to flee":

It can happen here.

Maybe it will come after a nuclear war that we lose but you survive. It's just as likely we'll do it to ourselves, voting the bastards in because too many people believe in their politicians instead of themselves.

You wake up one morning and find that the mayor has been carted off to a camp for reeducation, and some bearded kid wearing a cap with a red star is sitting in his chair signing orders to confiscate your tractor, your barn, your farmland and your kid's pet calf.

Or maybe the sheriff has come around with a piece of paper in his hand and an apology while he collects your target pistol, two hunting rifles, and your kid's 410. Your favorite bar is selling nothing but Koolaid, the federal government has closed the bank and confiscated your checking account, and the only thing you can get on TV is the mug of the new president appointed by the Joint Chiefs of Staff who is telling you what great things he is going to do for you.

[webhick]

Those of us who choose to live in reality would view what was said in court vs what is in the manual to be contradictory. But if you're totally insane: "intruder" = "government worker".

It reminds me of an episode in a TV Show, perhaps L&O. The good guys found out that a woman who'd been widowed many times in the past had actually been killing her husbands. I remember a bit about the final scene. She and one of the cops (or a lawyer, can't remember) were sitting on the swing on her front porch and she calmly explained in a 50s-sitcom-mom-kind-of-way that she didn't kill any of her husbands, she just helped them. She was so far gone, she couldn't see that it was the same thing.

The scene still creeps me out a little. I hope it always does.