Bizarre ideas about children

[Famspear]

I'm starting to see more stories like this one:

https://abcnews.go.com/US/child-service ... d=57361637

What's really bizarre is this passage toward the end of the story:

In May, a law signed by Utah Gov. Gary Herber went into effect to legalize free-range parenting and allow children to do things like traveling alone to school.

Someone thinks we need a LAW to "allow" children to "travel alone to school"? Good grief. What universe are these people living in??

When I was a kid, all kids who lived within a half mile or so of school walked alone to school every day. I never rode a school bus until the middle of the 10th grade, when they opened a new high school farther from my house.

I recall a news report from the last year or so stating that Maryland, or some municipality in Maryland, had a law that actually prohibited children under a certain age from "being alone" outside a building without an adult attending. Have people gone crazy? How common is this in the United States? Absent unusual circumstances, such as a crime-ridden neighborhood, anyone who calls the police merely because they see a child walking a dog needs to have his or her head examined.

[Famspear]

Another passage from the story:

Widen's story has re-ignited arguments over "free-range parenting," a concept that involves limited parental supervision and encourages children to function independently...

"Free-range parenting"? In some places in the United States, a child playing outside without an adult watching is now a "concept" with its own "name"?

[Judge Roy Bean]

We've mutated into a busy-body society. Gossip and rumors can spread far and wide with just a few clicks on an app or browser, but when that doesn't seem to "fix" the bad parent's way of raising (controlling) children, the real zealot will try to use authorities to "teach people a lesson" about parenting under the guise of "just trying to keep the kids safe."

[Tevildo]

I recall a news report from the last year or so stating that Maryland, or some municipality in Maryland, had a law that actually prohibited children under a certain age from "being alone" outside a building without an adult attending.

This is the relevant legislation. And I thought the UK was excessively paternalistic in such matters...

[Famspear]

I recall a news report from the last year or so stating that Maryland, or some municipality in Maryland, had a law that actually prohibited children under a certain age from "being alone" outside a building without an adult attending.

This is the relevant legislation. And I thought the UK was excessively paternalistic in such matters...

Wow. Here's an excerpt from the material:

Maryland Child Protective Services Procedures (SSA95-13) define an "unattended child" as: ◦A child under eight left alone or in the care of a person who is not reliable or who is under 13.

◦A child aged eight through 12 left alone for longer than brief periods without support systems which should include phone numbers of parents, other family members...

I cannot imagine what the lawmakers (or regulators) in Maryland are thinking. If the Maryland law were the law in Texas, millions of Texas parents would be breaking the law every day.

And, the news report that I saw about the Maryland incident involved, if I recall correctly, two girls (sisters, maybe) simply walking along a street.

So, in Maryland, a child aged 8 through 12 is technically required to keep a physical record -- on his or her person -- of his parents' phone number, even when he or she is simply out playing in the neighborhood a few blocks away, on a summer day? Granted, many kids today may be carrying their own cell phones anyway. But, this is an absurd law.

EDITED FOR SENTENCE STRUCTURE

[Famspear]

We've mutated into a busy-body society. Gossip and rumors can spread far and wide with just a few clicks on an app or browser, but when that doesn't seem to "fix" the bad parent's way of raising (controlling) children, the real zealot will try to use authorities to "teach people a lesson" about parenting under the guise of "just trying to keep the kids safe."

The Maryland setup is an extreme example of legislative (or maybe bureaucratic) idiocy.

Further, any law purporting to protect children (and I assume that most other states have reasonable laws) should also impose criminal penalties for zealots who file frivolous police reports.

[Tevildo]

It gets worse...

Title §5–706.1

... if the individual has been found responsible for indicated abuse or neglect, that the individual may be identified as responsible for abuse or neglect in the centralized confidential database.

Title §5–701

"Indicated" means a finding that there is credible evidence, which has not been satisfactorily refuted, that abuse, neglect, or sexual abuse did occur.

Do you not have the presumption of innocence in the States? If so, why hasn't this been struck down as unconstitutional?

[Pottapaug1938]

Welcome to the 21st century.

When I was working, I sometimes stopped at a supermarket, on my way to work. Across a side street was a K-8 school; and there were crossing guards between the supermarket and the school, as well as a place for parents to drop off their kids right in front of the school.

But no, that wasn't good enough for the snowflake parents. They would park in the supermarket parking lot, making actual customers park in the distant corners of the lot (and no, most parents and kids never went inside the supermarket). They would walk their children to the door of the school -- not even trusting the crossing guards. From time to time, the school administration put out the word that the supermarket and school both wanted this practice stopped; but it was never long before parents decided that their child was too Special and Important to cross the street like the lesser children did. Why -- a drug dealer, child molester or kidnapper might snatch their Special Child in those 50 yards or so!

I was born and raised in a community of over 400 single-family houses, west of Boston, built for war veterans and their families. When we came home from school, we changed clothes and went outside to play, until it got dark or when it was time for supper. Often, our play took place in the belt of woods, just west of our neighborhood, abutting the Charles River. Now, play Must Be Supervised By Adults; and All Games Must Have Leagues And Rules And Adult Supervision At All Times -- and that's assuming that Junior is not in Band, Chorus, Orchestra, music lessons or academic enrichment classes. Those woods? Drug dealers, child molesters and kidnappers might be there; so any child who goes there has an adult escort. In fact, you're more likely to find an adult there, jogging, then you are to find some kids creating their own adventures.

Humph.

[wserra]

Do you not have the presumption of innocence in the States? If so, why hasn't this been struck down as unconstitutional?

Because this isn't a penal statute. In other words, violating it does not carry the threat of incarceration.

Please do not mistake this answer for approval.

[TheNewSaint]

Good grief. What universe are these people living in??

Utah.

[AndyK]

Okay, so I'm 71 years experienced (I AM NOT OLD!).

As a child, we played baseball in the street. If we got enough kids together, we'd walk / bike (without helmets) to a nearby field and play sandlot ball.

We had a playground nearby with METAL swings, jungle gyms, and other dangerous stuff. Underfoot, we had dirt. Just plain old dirt (unless it had rained when we had mud.). No special playground mulch or cork flooring.

All the while this was going on, there wasn't a single parent present. But, somehow, if some was injured more seriously than an owie, a mom or two arrived within minutes. Also, when we got home, every single parent knew exactly what had been going on.

I made it to 71 without a nanny state looking after me. Fine -- laws requiring bicycle helmets are great. But there's a limit.

Next thing, you'll see laws making it illegal for kids to eat dirt.

[Chaos]

Next thing, you'll see laws making it illegal for kids to eat dirt.

blasphemy!

[Pottapaug1938]

Okay, so I'm 71 years experienced (I AM NOT OLD!).

As a child, we played baseball in the street. If we got enough kids together, we'd walk / bike (without helmets) to a nearby field and play sandlot ball.

We had a playground nearby with METAL swings, jungle gyms, and other dangerous stuff. Underfoot, we had dirt. Just plain old dirt (unless it had rained when we had mud.). No special playground mulch or cork flooring.

All the while this was going on, there wasn't a single parent present. But, somehow, if some was injured more seriously than an owie, a mom or two arrived within minutes. Also, when we got home, every single parent knew exactly what had been going on.

I made it to 71 without a nanny state looking after me. Fine -- laws requiring bicycle helmets are great. But there's a limit.

Next thing, you'll see laws making it illegal for kids to eat dirt.

I'll be 66 in November; and my upbringing was much the same. When needed -- or when not wanted, sometimes, moms were always nearby. My favorite instances would be when a mom came outside and yelled"young man -- my own kids aren't around, and I need something at the store. Will you get it for me?" I'd be given enough money to buy the needed items, plus something for myself; and sometimes, the moms would firmly insist on that last part.

[Gregg]

Okay, so I'm 71 years experienced (I AM NOT OLD!).

As a child, we played baseball in the street. If we got enough kids together, we'd walk / bike (without helmets) to a nearby field and play sandlot ball.

We had a playground nearby with METAL swings, jungle gyms, and other dangerous stuff. Underfoot, we had dirt. Just plain old dirt (unless it had rained when we had mud.). No special playground mulch or cork flooring.

All the while this was going on, there wasn't a single parent present. But, somehow, if some was injured more seriously than an owie, a mom or two arrived within minutes. Also, when we got home, every single parent knew exactly what had been going on.

I made it to 71 without a nanny state looking after me. Fine -- laws requiring bicycle helmets are great. But there's a limit.

Next thing, you'll see laws making it illegal for kids to eat dirt.

I'll be 66 in November; and my upbringing was much the same. When needed -- or when not wanted, sometimes, moms were always nearby. My favorite instances would be when a mom came outside and yelled"young man -- my own kids aren't around, and I need something at the store. Will you get it for me?" I'd be given enough money to buy the needed items, plus something for myself; and sometimes, the moms would firmly insist on that last part.

I went once and bought Mr Moore a bottle of wine when I was all of about 9 or so. I just went to the store and told them he sent me, they put it on his tab, put it in a brown paper bag and gave me a candy bar as a "delivery fee". Circa 1972

[Randall]

We've mutated into a busy-body society. Gossip and rumors can spread far and wide with just a few clicks on an app or browser, but when that doesn't seem to "fix" the bad parent's way of raising (controlling) children, the real zealot will try to use authorities to "teach people a lesson" about parenting under the guise of "just trying to keep the kids safe."

The Maryland setup is an extreme example of legislative (or maybe bureaucratic) idiocy.

Further, any law purporting to protect children (and I assume that most other states have reasonable laws) should also impose criminal penalties for zealots who file frivolous police reports.

Such extreme idiocy is often the result of some well publicized incident which caused the public to demand action.

[fortinbras]

I am also 71 and I recall in my early childhood, when dinosaurs still walked the earth, it was not so common for the wife/mother to have a job. So we (meaning the kids in the neighborhood) always had someone's mother - and usually more than one - nearby. Just in case.

But nowadays mothers hardly stay home long enough to give birth and are back to commuting to a job, so, even in middle-class and upper-class neighborhoods, it's very possible that nobody's mama is home and the kids have no supervision/protection/rescue person. That's a big difference from when I was young and it necessitates some intervention from the Nanny State.

[JamesVincent]

The Maryland that we moved to in 1979 is very different from the Maryland that exists today. When I was just hitting double digits my best friend Jeff and I would ride approx. 12 miles to the state park where we would sneak in the back entrance, the one with no gate, on our 1 speed bikes and wander unsupervised for multiple hours. When we realized it was getting late we would ride home. Sometimes we would make it before dark, sometimes not. Both my mother and stepdad worked more than full time and I was lucky if they were home before 7 or so and if I hung around the house my older sister would get annoyed and beat the crap out of me. During the school year we had 900 acres of woods and beaver ponds behind my house to go hunting, fishing, dirt biking, whatever in.

The Maryland of now? Parents have had their children taken for them being on a not busy street before the street lights came on. Multiple incidents, both reported and personal, have shown that this state, and other states, have indeed read and agreed with Hilary Clinton's book "It takes a vilage" The state knows better than the parents how children should be raised. And aren't afraid to prove it either. There was an incident where parents were cited after a school bus driver saw 2 boys playing in their own yard unsupervised.

The only good thing that came out of this mentality is the importance placed on physical child abuse but even that was taken to far. I was heavily abused as a child, not gonna lie. And I never knew I was abused until I was an adult, it just was not talked about back then. However the pendulum has swung too far and now things that should be standard parenting are considered abuse. There's a world of difference between smacking a child on the keister for an offense and being beat until I was bloody by my mother. Maybe that's why I have such issues with legislation like this.

[Duke2Earl]

I remark to my wife all the time that this simply is not the world we grew up in. And I feel we have lost more than we have gained in many ways.

[Mike_p]

Could someone come up with some rough figures?
For example: in the ten years preceding the legislation, how many kids were abducted or harmed by ztrangers? During that time, how many kids were left unsupervised and how often? My guess is that the actual risk to kids is insignificant but the impetus to legislate results from virtue signalling by politicians.
" I want to protect the children, so if you don't vote for me you're a bad parent "

[JamesVincent]

Could someone come up with some rough figures?
For example: in the ten years preceding the legislation, how many kids were abducted or harmed by ztrangers? During that time, how many kids were left unsupervised and how often? My guess is that the actual risk to kids is insignificant but the impetus to legislate results from virtue signalling by politicians.
" I want to protect the children, so if you don't vote for me you're a bad parent "

The problem isn't that kids need protected, the problem is control. What they're really saying is "This is how your family should be and we're gonna make sure you fit in this exact model. " Do kids have accidents when they're unsupervised? I'm sure it happens. Have my own kids did some stupid things while unsupervised? Absolutely. Did I do some stupid things while unsupervised? I plead the 5th.

However, my kids and even myself as a kid did some stupid things and had accidents while a parent was sitting right there. Just in the raising of mine several hospital trips, stitches, staples, broken bones, while me or my ex wife was sitting right there. Kids are kids. They're gonna trip, they're gonna fight, theyre gonna get mad. It's gonna happen. My youngest daughter tripped over a cat and sprained her ankle. A cat. While I was 5' away. No amount of supervision would change that.

And..... if you raise your kids right..... a lot of the things that legislation would supposedly prevent would never happen anyway.