National Liberty Alliance - Citizen Grand Juries

[Arthur Rubin]

Skip it. "bobhurt"s arguments are even more flaky than those of Terry George Trussell. My criticism of bob's post was already made, more clearly, back in January 2015.

[JamesVincent]

Of course they had to silence this brave man. I mean, what could possibly go wrong with someone outside and above the law. What could possibly go wrong? And to think a jury convicted him for breaking the law, what schmucks. And over what, all because he wanted revenge on the people that fired him.

Bob, you're still an idiot, time away hasn't improved that.

[NYGman]

And that explains why Terry Trussell had to go to jail, AND why he will lose his appeal. Government simply cannot allow him a victory.

A much simpler and more correct reason would be, a jury found him guilty of breaking the law, with his phoney, powerless, make-believe grand jury, so he is going to Jail. Occam's razor.

I will also add, once you start mentioning those unnamed Floridian officials putting in the fix, in order to prevent rogue GJ investigating them, you have lost the plot and gone full blown conspiracy nut, making everything else you say unbelievable, not that it has much any merit at all.

[grixit]

oh did someone get his bob hurt again?

[wserra]

Hi, bob. Sorry, sounds like someone rained on your parade. Still, did you post here for any reason other than to just whine?

I kept up with the progress of his [Trussell's] trial because of the assiduous interest of the termagants at fogbow who posted as much blow-by-blow commentary as they could (a couple of them attended the 5-day proceedings), and even posted youtube videos and links to case documents.

Well, bob, if you regularly read Fogbow, you have more time on your hands than I. I have read several of the Trussell case docs, however. Let's see what you have to say about it.

Terry, as foreman of the common law grand jury (CLGJ, which prosecutors said did not exist)

I don't think that was exactly it. It may well have existed. It just didn't have the power to do anything. Sorta like declaring myself President. Cool, so long as I don't start ordering air strikes.

The prosecutor and chief judge fired Trussell from the Grand Jury (GJ)

Yes, that's true. Trussell was running the fake GJ at the same time as he was foreman of the real one. Among other such things, he would get "true bills" from the fake one and then, as the foreman of the real one, have them filed as though they were real. Bad idea.

The prosecutor ordered his arrest. Proceedings dragged on for two years. After the verdict, the judge dismissed the jury with an expression of gratitude.

Most judges do that in every single case, bob. If you were implying that this judge was somehow expressing his approval of Trussell's conviction, that is virtually certainly not the case.

She did not manage to make a full First Amendment defense case for Trussell.

There's a First Amendment right to file fake indictments, bob? I didn't know that. Perhaps you could cite authority.

But in fact, the Florida Constitution does not empower the Legislature to make statutes like chapter 905 governing the empanelment and activities of the GJ

Well, then Trussell should breeze through the appeal. WIthout knowing anything about FL law, I kind of doubt it, though.

Nor do the statutes forbid establishment of a CLGJ.

I don't doubt that's right, bob. FL statutes probably don't forbid setting up a CLHS (Common Law Hit Squad), either. Doesn't mean that you can't be prosecuted for doing it and then whacking people, though.

it should have allowed testimony by First Amendment expert John Wolfgram.

There is only one very infrequent occasion for testimony about the law, bob. That's when a question of foreign law is at issue. In 99.9% of all cases, it isn't, and the judge instructs the jury on the law. If the judge is wrong, that's why appellate courts exist. In fact, more criminal cases are reversed on issues related to the charge than on any other single issue. But testimony on the law is almost never appropriate.

And do you mean the John Wolfgram who was disbarred over twenty years ago, and now refers to himself as a "constitutional scholar"? Who was subsequently declared a vexatious litigant? I don't think he's much of an expert, bob.

He would have shown that Trussell's activities operated within the First Amendment right to petition for redress of grievance.

By filing fake indictments against government officials? That's a pretty broad "right to petition", bob.

And that explains why Terry Trussell had to go to jail, AND why he will lose his appeal. Government simply cannot allow him a victory.

That's one way to look at it, I suppose. That's certainly the viewpoint of all those perpetual motion inventors whose work the govt has ruthlessly suppressed out of loyalty to the fossil fuel industry. Of course, another way to look at it is that he committed crimes.

But I have no doubt that Terry George Trussell, like a former US Marine remaining loyal to his oath to support the Constitution, will soldier on from prison.

Fuck, yeah! Like John Gotti! You go, bob.

[JamesVincent]

Hi, bob. Sorry, sounds like someone rained on your parade. Still, did you post here for any reason other than to just whine?.....


Fuck, yeah! Like John Gotti! You go, bob.

This whole post is the reason I love having Wes around.

[notorial dissent]

Bobby Butt Hurt came over to Fogbow and started in in a similar vein to what he posted here and he got roundly and soundly laughed at, on top of the little old ladies, my apologies to same, who unceremoniously chewed him up and spat him out. In other words, he got seriously butt hurt. Those old broads, or whatever they are calling themselves now are tough.

To add a little color, two of the aforementioned actually attended a good portion of the trial, took assiduous notes, and reported back, and the only similarity between what they, and I might add the video transcriptions have in common with Bob's version is that there was a trial, and TT lost, BIG.

I would ask Bob just as a side note why the FL Constitution prohibits 905, I need a good giggle.

This all got started by TT forming his little common law knitting society after the real grand jury wouldn't give him the time of day on his sovcit cray cray, and getting shut down by the SA and the judge. TT seemed to think that being Foreman made him grand dictator, it didn't. Basically since the mean old SA and judge wouldn't let him do what he wanted he, on his own, imaginary authority, dismissed the sitting grand jury as being compromised or some such, I can't remember the exact phrase he used, and empaneled a new CLGJ, that he just conveniently had waiting in the wings, and just as conveniently had "inditements" ready to hand down, which he then took and had the real court clerk file, which she did since she wasn't aware of what he was pulling. The fake document charges come in because on casual inspection they look like the real thing, seals and all. The typical sovcit CLGJ nonsense, but filed in all seriousness. When the judge and the SA found out what he'd done the documents were ordered removed and placed in a common file that is used for such things as I understand, but not where official documents go. TT shortly thereafter got fired as Foreman and removed from the grand jury for cause. Under FL law the Foreman doesn't really have much other than organizational authority, and it takes 12 of the 15 members to vote out an indictment and their actions are only enforceable by the court. This little bit seems to have gotten past TT's trap like mind.

After this little escapade TT and a couple of his good buddies went up to the state capitol and basically made a full confession, my interpretation, of their illegal activities to FDLE and were very pleased with them since they thought that they were getting agreement and support from them and went away smug and happy. Shortly thereafter the real indictment came down with the 14 felony charges. It was really nice of them to have made the open confessions in front of FDLE officers, made getting the indictments so much easier.

Next came the arraignment in Dixie County where the crime(s) took place.

TT got his silly ass in a sling, when the court asked TT to come forward and say yes he was there he went off on a sovcit monologue without actually saying yes he was there. The judge was patient and tried several times to get him to properly answer, and when he didn't a bench warrant was issued, and as happens with sovcit idjits who think they are so clever he got hauled off to jail to contemplate his stupidity. He finally repented and got himself arraigned and wanted to go pro se, so they played that dance for a time until it became obvious that he really wasn't doing anything and the judge told him to get a lawyer. He actually got a for real competent criminal defense lawyer and it looked like he might get out of this with slap on the wrist and maybe a suspended sentence, but twas not to be. There came a parting of the ways. No real reason known but the suspicion being that aforementioned real lawyer wouldn't go with TT's sovcit nonsense and he fired his client. This makes sense because of what later happened. So TT flailed around NOT finding a lawyer until he somehow found one he wanted. The one he wanted was one Inger Garcia from down in Miami, incidentally NOT a criminal defense lawyer in any sense of the word. The why and how remains a bit of a mystery. At any rate she took the case and immediate asked for a continuance, which under the circumstances was reasonable. She then asked for a second, reason...vacation, didn't feel like it....various, and got it til this June. Now during all this time she was supposed to have been working on TT's case, she had a busload of depositions, of which 99% never saw the light of day, investigations etc to have been doing, all of which NEVER got started til about two months before trial. She was not even remotely ready for the sounding the court held, and barely prepared for the actual trial, and guess what, one of the first things she asked for after the sounding was another six month extension. Which was denied.... That apparently being her trial strategy she then actually had to try and wing it at trial, which is pretty much what she did. The delays Bobby whines about were ALL caused by either TT directly or by his counsel of choice, the state had nothing to do with any of it, they were ready to go last year.

On a side note, even though ALL motions and jury instructions and such were supposed to have been filed by the sounding, IG continued to file what can only be described as a blizzard of mostly meaningless paper right up til late the night before the trial. There was apparently something labeled jury instruction that ran to something like 500 pages of pure meaninglessness. This gives you an idea of the caliber of lawyer we are talking about.

Comes the trial.
The prosecution was low key, professional, thorough and polished. They treated the witnesses with courtesy and respect and got through their business in short order. The defense was almost a polar opposite, rude and condescending to the witnesses until she was admonished about it, and generally disorganized and ill prepared. The hallmark of legal skill and style was her badgering her first witness, the one who could do and in fact did do her the most damage, if only on sympathy alone, for over three hours, asking basically the same questions over and over and over, and failing miserably. Floundering is the term I would have used. The denouement was when TT got up to testify, which was of course his right, and told his version of what happened, and I say version advisedly since it varied widely from the multiple and varying statements he made earlier and what others had reported, and when he was crossed by the SA he changed his stories yet again. That worked really well for the jury I can tell you.

My personal opinion is that TT pretty much convicted himself by getting up on the stand and showing what kind of prize horse’s ass he was and by lying through his teeth, REPEATEDLY. In any event, it took the jury less than a day to convict on the five serious felony charges, he was acquitted on the other since they weren’t really brought forward at trial for some reason. Needless to say, CONVICTED, and facing a good long time up the river as it were when he could possibly gotten by with an apology and a fine or maybe suspended sentence when instead he chose to go full sovcit idjit and pay the full freight.

One other incident that might have helped was that one of TT’s buddies a devout jury nullificationist and all ‘round general prat was passing out jury nullification flyers during the trial and it was brought to the court’s attention and at least one juror complained about it. That didn’t help his case either.

On a final note, TT has now been sitting in his jail cell awaiting sentencing for a week, and there has been nothing filed by his learned defense counsel. Just saying’.

[ArthurWankspittle]

An excellent summary by nd there. I'd only add that TT seemed to suffer from selective amnesia when asked questions by the SA.

[notorial dissent]

Arthur, I think selective and convenient memory more like, although in fairness, he has changed/edited/retconned the story so many times over the last two years I'm not really sure if he really does know/remember what happened. The only constant among any of them is that he always comes out the wronged hero and has done nothing wrong. The story changes with whoever he is telling it to, the/his problem is that too many of them have been recorded and preserved and enough of it is in print that his lies stand out like a sore thumb. But basically, he flat out lied under cross examination after having already said one thing when his attorney was questioning him, so he really did do the majority of the heavy lifting in getting himself convicted.

[Jeffrey]

Government simply cannot allow him a victory.

Then why did you pick a fight with the government in the first place?

[JamesVincent]

Government simply cannot allow him a victory.

Then why did you pick a fight with the government in the first place?

I pick fights with the government on an almost weekly basis and win more then I lose.

[notorial dissent]

Government simply cannot allow him a victory.

The only one who deprived him of victory was TT, and well more to the point, the jury who actually convicted him on the major charges, and THEY are hardly the gov't. TT violated the very valid felony law against simulated legal process, the rest is as they say now history.

[woodworker]

Personally, I thought one of the most effective parts of TT's testimony (effective for the state that is) was when TT broke down into tears about how he had seen friends give everything and he was just trying to uphold his oath and then his dog died (oh wait, that last one was from "Old Yeller"), truly believable testimony. Also, too, when he explained to Meggs that he just couldn't make it ANY CLEARER FOR MEGGS TO UNDERSTAND and hell yes, he had to fire the SA and the Presiding Judge. Do you want the truth, YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH (oops, slipping into movieland again).

[Jeffrey]

Not sure if this was mentioned here but this guy is trying NLA stuff in court concerning a driving while suspended case:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChEOjN ... gYWeprc9hw

Got slapped with a $1,300 fine as a result.

[notorial dissent]

Equal opportunity fail.

[fortinbras]

Terry Trussell just lost his appeal in the Fla Distrist Ct of Appeals.

https://files.acrobat.com/a/preview/21 ... e25b88

He could appeal to the Fla Supreme Court, and he probably will, but the law is solidly against him.

[Pottapaug1938]

He'll read the dissent, and proclaim "see! I am NOT guilty beyond a reasonable doubt! An appellate court justice came right out and said that I should get a new trial!"

[notorial dissent]

I wonder if he's figured out he won't be more for Thanksgiving yet?

[Chaos]

I wonder if he's figured out he won't be more for Thanksgiving yet?

you think he'll be less?

[ArthurWankspittle]

Fogbow is reporting Terry Trussell is at or below room temperature. Reportedly had a heart attack.