Practical Lawful Dissent FMOTL antics, continued...

[mufc1959]

How dare they try to apply "statues and acts" to a living man!

[Hercule Parrot]

I confess. I am a bad person. I giggled through the whole of the children's wailing knowing whose fault it actually was.

Listen through the wailing and whining, and there's at least one trainee barrackroom lawyer who wants to get out and help brave daddy take on the evil cops. Those kids are being brainwashed into cult-like beliefs, and the mother was no better. "All of this, just for some tax" she complained, oblivious to the fact that her husband had sought, provoked and caused "all of this".

I hope the car is seized and crushed. Some hard messages needed to get through this blowhard's delusions of immunity.

[notorial dissent]

What is that accent?

[Gregg]

Like · Reply · 4h
Heather Hines Gracie
Heather Hines Gracie Irrelevant of the no rd tax. The police were heavy handed in front of his young children with no empathy towards the family. Th e police were not threatened so why treat him as if he was? I agree there should be a punishment in court, but what ever happened to the friendly community police that actually have a dam?

snip....

Gregg Evans
Gregg Evans What happened to the friendly community police was they started having to put up with cunts like this lot who won't comply with the law until hit on the forehead with a plank.

[notorial dissent]

Like · Reply · 4h
Heather Hines Gracie
Heather Hines Gracie Irrelevant of the no rd tax. The police were heavy handed in front of his young children with no empathy towards the family. Th e police were not threatened so why treat him as if he was? I agree there should be a punishment in court, but what ever happened to the friendly community police that actually have a dam?

snip....

Gregg Evans
Gregg Evans What happened to the friendly community police was they started having to put up with cunts like this lot who won't comply with the law until hit on the forehead with a plank.

The plank I am afraid was out classed. That kind of skull is impenetrable.

Who was/is the woman he kept demanding they call?

[ArthurWankspittle]

What is that accent?

I really don't know. There's a bit of rural south centre/west England in there but then that's where he lives. His mrs has also "appeared" by name in these pages previously but I think only in connection with his Council Tax payment failures.

[He Who Knows]

notorial dissent wrote: ↑
What is that accent?

ArthurWankspittle wrote: I really don't know. There's a bit of rural south centre/west England in there but then that's where he lives. His mrs has also "appeared" by name in these pages previously but I think only in connection with his Council Tax payment failures.

The accent is Mansfield (Nottinghamshire - surprise, surprise).
The woman they kept referring to was Olivia Pinkney. Surely not the very same Olivia Pinkney that is Hampshire Police's Chief Constable?
No, Arthur, I didn't see any guns although I did see a few yellow-handled tasers. Wish they'd used them.

[Tevildo]

What is that accent?

I'd say East Midlands (Leicester / Northampton-ish).

[Edit - He Who Knows has anticipated me and narrowed it down to Mansfield].

[Siegfried Shrink]

No doubt he will be leaving there when it is gender-neutralised to Peoplesfield.

[hucknallred]

I'd say East Midlands (Leicester / Northampton-ish).

[Edit - He Who Knows has anticipated me and narrowed it down to Mansfield].

South Normanton[1], not far off.

[1] He has his school on his FB profile.

[AnOwlCalledSage]

Practical Lawful Dissent, with the emphasis on "Practical"

Man arrested trying to steal Magna Carta from UK cathedral
LONDON (AP) — British police have arrested a man suspected of trying to steal a Magna Carta from its display case at Salisbury Cathedral.
Wiltshire Police said Friday that cathedral alarms sounded Thursday afternoon when a person tried to smash the glass box surrounding the Magna Carta.
The Magna Carta granted by King John in 1215 has become an enduring symbol of the rule of law. The document on display at the cathedral is one of four surviving original Magna Cartas.
Police say the Magna Carta was not damaged and no one was hurt during the incident.
The suspect was arrested on suspicion of attempted theft, possession of an offensive weapon and criminal damage. He has not been identified or charged.
Police say the man matched a description given by witnesses.

https://t.co/vkXLRCyehu

[Comrade Sharik]

Not afaik FOTL related, but may be of interest.....

Man arrested for trying to steal Magna Carta

A man has been arrested on suspicion of trying to steal a Magna Carta from Salisbury Cathedral.

Wiltshire police said the 45-year-old was arrested on Thursday after alarms were triggered by an attempt to smash the glass box in which the artefact was displayed.

A man matching witnesses’ descriptions was arrested on suspicion of attempted theft, possession of an offensive weapon and criminal damage. Police said he remained in custody.

The book was not damaged in the incident.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... lisbury-wi

[The Seventh String]

Off topic - anyone else notice the cop was armed?

Yep, the initial stop was carried out by an armed response vehicle team. Who seemed aware from the start that the car was untaxed and uninsured.

And we have another FMOTL who’ll be learning the hard way that, despite his repeated protestations, not only do statues and Acts apply to him but statutes do as well.

[TheRambler]

Not going to alter the position with muzzle loading black powder arms fired by matchlock, flintlock or percussion cap.
In theory all these are for display only, if you wish to shoot your black powder arms you need a FAC, I think.

Muskets and similar smoothbores you shoot with, even if only blanks, require shotgun certificates.

Rifles, including muzzle-loaders intended for use require firearms certificates. If you own e.g. an 1870s Martini Henry, don’t shoot it and hang it on the wall it’s probably classed as an unrestricted antique. Until you decide to shoot it when things get a bit complicated and it then requires a certificate, secure storage etc., as does the ammunition.

(Standard disclaimer. I am not a lawyer, this is not legal advice and is worth less than you paid for it).

You're right as far as I know. A genuine antique firearm doesn't need any licence until you intend to shoot it at which point it becomes either a shotgun or a firearm with the appropriate licensing requirements.

Ah, the wonderful world of UK firerarms legislation. Something I deal with on an almost daily basis, but thankfully only a small part of it. There is no "right" to own a firearm in the UK unlike the RKBA under the 2nd Amendment of the United States Constitution. To "possess" (and that word has a strict interpretation under the Firerarms Act) a fireram with a rifled barrel and an overall length of 26 inches or more; a Section 1 (S1) Firearm; you require a Firerarm Certficate (FAC) issued by your local force. To obtain a FAC the applicant has to demonstrate that they have "good reason" to possess the firearm and ammunition for which permissision is sought (permission is required for each S1 firearm) and satisfy the police that they are a "fit and proper person" to be allowed access to firearms. However if you wish to possess a smoothbore firearm (shotgun) (Section 2 - S2) again over 26 inches long and with an ammunition capacity of no more than 3 rounds then then you have a right to do so unless barred by statute or the police are able to show that you are otherwise not a fit and proper person. S2 shotguns require a Shotgun Certificate (SGC)

No class of firerarms are "banned" as such. Handguns may still be possessed but they are classed as S5; specially dangerous firerams; along with mortars, rocket launchers and flame throwers etc. S5 authorisation is solely in the gift of the Home Office and is rare and unusual. However there is also S7 that allows members of certain clubs to shoot historic handguns under closely controlled conditions. Whilst we are dealing with oddities and exceptions, there are the S2 firearms that for various reasons qualify as S1 and need a FAC, not to mention the handguns for humane despatch that would be S5 but are held on S1.

Then there are the air pistols and air rifles that have a muzzle energy (ME) of between 1 joules and 6ft/lbs, 12 ft/lbs respectively. These are classed as firerarms but require no certificate (unless you reside in Scotland) unless they exceed these ME values when they become S1 and S5 firearms. On top of this, airguns are subject to additional restrictions on possession laid down in the Violent Crime Reduction Act (VCRA).

If you've got this far without developing a severe headache, congratulations! You are now ready to move on to some bedtime reading in the form of the Home Office Guide on Firearms Licensing Law:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... 16_v20.pdf

TheRambler

[jonathan01n]

Our society culture is based on ban, ban , ban and more bans but we never think about how we can better regulate things better. I believe one of the reasons is because our culture is a bit lazy on how to self discipline and thus let the government do the job. Bit O.T. I believe we don't have the gun ownership rights like in Swiss because we have too many gangs and d***heads in this country. We also don't have motorways without speed limit like in Germany because of road design and quality, this is one thing and the major reason is there are so many idiotic drivers on our roads. How we have the safest roads in the world is beyond me.

[longdog]

S5 authorisation is solely in the gift of the Home Office and is rare and unusual.

Back in my shooting days, which was before most pistols became 'prohibited weapons', it was surprising just how many people in my club had some form of Section 5 authorisation. They were mainly gunsmiths or firearms dealers but the S5 was more a matter of endless paperwork and bureaucracy than the generally assumed outright ban.

[longdog]

Bit O.T. I believe we don't have the gun ownership rights like in Swiss because we have too many gangs and d***heads in this country.

I'm far from convinced that UK gun laws are in any way more onerous than a large number of west European countries. We can't as a rule have centre-fire semi-auto rifles or handguns but everything else is just a matter of not being a criminal or a nutter and filling in the right paperwork. A shotgun certificate is a right and an FAC is effectively a right for suitably 'qualified' people.

In at least one way the UK is more liberal than even the US. If you want a moderator (silencer for the uninitiated) in the US it's FBI background check and a $200 'tax stamp' time. In the UK they are considered a health and safety device which needs either an ordinary FAC, a shotgun licence or no paperwork at all depending on the circumstances. A lot of 'assault' shotguns and large calibre rifles are considered 'destructive devices' in the US and semi-banned but are just shotguns and rifles in the UK and easily available with the right paperwork.

[SteveUK]

Well, my war booty SLR still fires fine. The only issue at Christmas is the bruised shoulder and scraping up the remains of the goose. Still, only a few shells left, but it only needs one a year.

[TheRambler]

S5 authorisation is solely in the gift of the Home Office and is rare and unusual.

Back in my shooting days, which was before most pistols became 'prohibited weapons', it was surprising just how many people in my club had some form of Section 5 authorisation. They were mainly gunsmiths or firearms dealers but the S5 was more a matter of endless paperwork and bureaucracy than the generally assumed outright ban.

I agree, it became relatively common after centre fire Self Loading Rifles (a more accurate description than Semi-Automatic) were moved to S5. However over recent years the number of S5 dealers has decreased significantly.

I'm far from convinced that UK gun laws are in any way more onerous than a large number of west European countries. We can't as a rule have centre-fire semi-auto rifles or handguns but everything else is just a matter of not being a criminal or a nutter and filling in the right paperwork. A shotgun certificate is a right and an FAC is effectively a right for suitably 'qualified' people.

I agree that UK firearms legislation is not as draconian as people sometimes imagine. What does concern me is that I am not convinced that we actually get a proportionate return in increased public safety for the effort invested in it. The current nonsense; for that is what it is; of medical reports from GPs is a case in point. A lot of effort for little or no real return. What is required is a thorough overhaul of the law relating to legally held firerarms that results in processes that actually work towards real returns, not knee jerk perceptions.

I shall conclude with one of the absurdities that arose:

Prior to the 2012 London Olympics, a small number of S5 permits for pistols were issued to shooters selected as members of the GB shooting squad. One of the recipients was a junior female who had considerable talent and had set a GB record score at age 16. At age 17 she obtained both a driving licence and a S5 authority, so with a steel box bolted into the boot of her old VW Polo was able to drive herself to training venues around the country with her cartridge pistol and ammunition. However, she could not drive aone to her home rifle club to train with her air pistol; no certificate or authority required; as she was under 18 and could not possess an airgun in a public place without contravening the Violent Crime Reduction Act (VCRA). She had to be supervised by a person over 21 years of age. You couldn't make it up.

TheRambler

[AnOwlCalledSage]

Our society culture is based on ban, ban , ban and more bans but we never think about how we can better regulate things better.

I think, as has been excellently pointed out, we don't have "ban, ban , ban and more bans" because they are not banned. We do have regulation, and empirical evidence would seem to indicate that it is quite effective so I'm not sure what your point is.

But as a Papist, I can see why FOTLers would object to me having a firearm

I shall conclude with one of the absurdities that arose:

Whilst I agree it's absurd given the specifics, I don't think it's disproportionate given the law has to deal with generalities. For example, A 16 year old (whilst being over the age of consent) WhatsApping a nude picture of herself to her similarly aged boyfriend is committing a crime, but that doesn't mean that posting indecent images of non-adults should be fair game. There will always be "dumb" laws at the margins when the parameters are stretched (the Dangerous Dogs Act being another good example).