Sovrun Cattle - The Sagebrush Saga of Cliven Bundy

[wserra]

it always seems to recede into the distance, whenever I try to approach it.

You? It recedes into the distance whenever Demo tries to approach it. From Amazon:

The Seditionists: Inside the Explosive World of Anti-Government Extremism in America
Hardcover – December 25, 2020
by JJ MacNab (Author)

It's beginning to look a lot like Christmas . . . 2020.

[grixit]

Dang. I hope it doesn't take as long to publish as it did to write!

[The Observer]

I decided to see what Cliven Bundy had been up to lately since fortuitously avoiding conviction due to federal prosecutor(s) being involved in misconduct. Most people would learn to accept a round of good luck and keep their heads low to avoid further potshots from the feds. But Bundy didn't disappoint me. Apparently, he thinks he is on a winning streak and filed some sort of complaint in Nevada state court, hoping beyond hope that the judge would rule that all federal land in Nevada belonged to Nevada. The judge was not buying it and threw out the complaint in upholding a motion by a third party (Center for Biological Diversity) to dismiss. The judge, Jim Crockett, had the audacity (and good perception) to use the words "simply delusional” and “fundamentally flawed" in describing Bundy's claims.

Last month, Bundy did what most sovruns do at some point in their bumbling careers - he turned on the Hammonds (father and son ranchers that had been convicted and imprisoned for arson for setting fires on BLM land). Bundy and sons had used the Hammonds' legal situation as a way to convince the rest of Sovmania that the Bundys were being persecuted in a similar manner and that their activity against the government was to bring attention to the Hammond's plight. But since then, the Hammonds received a presidential pardon and release from prison, as well as accepting a grazing rights permit from BLM. It is this last item that Bundy is finding objectionable. In his interpretation, the Hammonds have undermined his movement by accepting a permit under BLM terms. Bundy believes the Hammonds should have refused acceptance of the grazing permit and just did what he did - by continuing to graze their cattle on federal land. Bundy pointed out that the Hammonds again lost their grazing permit due to an environmental group suing over the permit being granted, but of course he tied that to some trickery on the part of the BLM that put the Hammonds into a "contract" with the government.

https://www.sltrib.com/news/2019/06/09/ ... dy-oregon/

EDIT: Just found another article relating to the dismissal that quotes Bundy and his attorney, Larry Klayman, as stating that they are going to appeal the dismissal.

https://www.apnews.com/a5e26c65bb5e43f89cedcddbf246c1b1

[grixit]

Interestingly, i just read an article about a problem in Nevada of an invasive species called cheatgrass, which crowds out native plants. There is a recommendation that grazing be increased in areas that it has taken over. If the Bundy Clan were willing to commute their cows they could become saviors of public land instead of destroyers.

[Jeffrey]

The Bundyville podcast is apparently getting a sequel soon.

Ammon feuding with the Hammonds is almost too perfect.

[The Observer]

The Bundyville podcast is apparently getting a sequel soon.

Ammon feuding with the Hammonds is almost too perfect.

I haven't seen anything that indicates Ammon is criticizing the Hammonds. Not to say that it isn't happening, but at this point all I have seen is Cliven criticizing them at that meeting in Nephi, UT.

I think the Hammonds recognized that following the Bundys or being associated with them was not in their interest, that one should not take getting a presidential pardon as an everyday occurrence.

[Chaos]

Interestingly, i just read an article about a problem in Nevada of an invasive species called cheatgrass, which crowds out native plants. There is a recommendation that grazing be increased in areas that it has taken over. If the Bundy Clan were willing to commute their cows they could become saviors of public land instead of destroyers.

don't be silly. that would mean putting in the effort to find them. and clearly you haven't seen the video of when cRyan did find one.

[Arthur Rubin]

don't be silly. that would mean putting in the effort to find them. and clearly you haven't seen the video of when cRyan did find one.

May be in Bryce Canyon.

Hell of a place to lose a cow.

[wvfoos]

The Bundyville podcast is apparently getting a sequel soon.

Ammon feuding with the Hammonds is almost too perfect.

Yes. I can recommend. Both are very good. Was bored a couple nights ago. Knocked out both of them.

[Baidn]

Veeeeeeery late to this particular party but I figured I'd throw my 2 cents on the pile anyway while I'm reading through the debacle that launched a thousand sovcits. First cent this is the biggest issue of miscalculation I think I've ever seen from the federal side. Wanting to avoid long term issues and regarding Bundy as a nuisance has caused more problems than any other dipshit militia I can think of. I wish they'd just shot all the cattle seized his property and weathered the storm. Now you've got Clive held up as a damn hero and Tweedledum and Tweedledumber getting MORE idiots locked up and killed while they do radio tours.
Second cent: there was a point earlier about how imminent domain may trump any version of squatter/homesteader rights move, just like to point out that in addition original sovereign immunity (by which i mean because I said so and I've got the power so fuck off) still and always trumps any silly bugger bullshit from these idiots if push comes to shove.

[The Observer]

I wish they'd just shot all the cattle..."

That was a possible solution to the problem that I had recommended earlier in this thread - that BLM officials designate the cattle as being an invasive species that was threatening the tortoise reserve and start shooting them. Since the Bundys were primarily motivated by their pocketbooks (and not patriotism) as they claim, I am pretty confident they would have quickly taken steps to get the rest of the cattle off the government lands.

...[T]his is the biggest issue of miscalculation I think I've ever seen from the federal side.

I certainly agree that this was one of the most mismanaged affairs by the government. This is what happens when the government keeps kicking the can down the road, trying to avoid a confrontation, only to end up with a worse confrontation than the one they feared. Delaying the inevitable only convinces your opponents that they are morally right and have power over you. And it doesn't help when you have government employees decide to prove that belief by being more corrupt than the antagonists.

[Baidn]

Your comment on the confrontation that could have been did remind me of what I think is an important overlooked danger with some of the bigger nutters (not Bundy he and the other figureheads rarely have the stones for sacrifice) in the weird desire to become a martyr to a cause. Looking back through old news footage and interviews id stumbled across one "militiaman" saying he thinks they should get their wives and children lined up in front then shoot at the feds so the news will show the government mowing down women and children and turn the tide of support. I like to think he's divorced now.

[Jeffrey]

Problem with shooting the cattle is the animal rights people would cause a stink. And being more forceful wasn’t an option since he summoned a bunch of crazy people with guns.

Maybe they could coordinate with prosecutors next time to figure out what they have to get Bundy to do to get a good conviction without putting BLM staff at excessive risk.

[Pottapaug1938]

I think that the Federal government should have simply brought a bunch of cattle trucks up, under armed escort, and collected those cattle. If Bundy et al. then whined about THE FEDERAL GUMMINT RUSTLING OUR CATTLE, the reply could have been "oh, you can have your cattle back. Just pay the fines for the illegal grazing, and the costs of caring for and feeding your cattle, and you can have them back!"

[The Observer]

I think that the Federal government should have simply brought a bunch of cattle trucks up, under armed escort, and collected those cattle. If Bundy et al. then whined about THE FEDERAL GUMMINT RUSTLING OUR CATTLE, the reply could have been "oh, you can have your cattle back. Just pay the fines for the illegal grazing, and the costs of caring for and feeding your cattle, and you can have them back!"

Essentially that is what BLM attempted, and the result was the armed confrontation with the cattle trucks going away empty. It was a venture that was poorly thought-out with little organization. Failure to get state authority on their side from Arizona and Utah also did not help the situation.

Problem with shooting the cattle is the animal rights people would cause a stink.

Until you point out to them they have a choice: stick up for the cows who are not a threatened species and kiss the endangered tortoises goodbye.

And being more forceful wasn’t an option since he summoned a bunch of crazy people with guns.

I doubt that the paytriots were going to go charge into the desert heat trying to locate dispersed cattle to defend. After an hour or so of that activity, they would be rethinking their priorities.

[grixit]

Last week Demo (who sadly seems to have outgrown us) tweeted that Hammond has had his grazing license revoked.

[JamesVincent]

LAS VEGAS -- A U.S. appeals court refused Thursday to resurrect the criminal case against states’ rights figure Cliven Bundy, family members and others stemming from a 2014 armed standoff with federal agents trying to round up Bundy cattle near the family ranch in Nevada.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/us- ... f-72219586

[The Observer]

Cliven Bundy, in an interview last month, expressed concern that the Biden administration may decide to move against him and make him pay his outstanding fines and seize his cattle on BLM lands. And if that happens, Cliven says he will be ready to "...walk forwards towards guns..." to defend himself, his property and his rights.

I certainly think the Biden administration has bigger priorities on their list than going after Bundy at this time. If anything, Bundy should be laying low, keeping quiet, and doing everything possible to avoid attracting attention instead of giving interviews that are the equivalent of waving a red flag and saying "come and get me."

[The Observer]

The fallout from the mistrial of the Bundy ranch standoff still continues. Todd Engel, one of the men convicted and sentenced prior to Judge Navarro throwing out charges against the Bundys due to prosecutorial misconduct, has now lawyered up (showing that he learned something from his failure at representing himself in the criminal trial) and filed a $100 million dollar civil rights violation suit against the government. Engel served 54 months in prison (before and after sentencing) based on an original sentence of 14 years. That sentence was tossed and a new trial was granted to Engel but the government dropped the charges and Engel was set free by Navarro in 2020.

[JamesVincent]

Remember that old saying regarding fucking up a wet dream? You couldn't have gotten a more airtight case, they admitted breaking the law, publicized breaking the law, took pictures of themselves breaking the law, and came out looking like oppressed people. Actually made people feel sorry for a bunch of thugs.