Practical Lawful Dissent FMOTL antics, continued...

[exiledscouser]

The comments are somewhat biting but hilarious nonetheless. Where should John go for his next holiday? Someone cruelly suggests;

a trip (to) Switzerland

This provokes the man himself to appear, watch out, there's a pitchfork about!

I am John Timbrell. What you don't know is that I have stopped the police breaking into houses three times in Gloucester and once in Thames valley. I served 7 notices on the Chief Constable Rod Hansen and one Affidavit asking for officers to attend so a breach of the peace would be avoided. They refused to attend even when the other side requested their attendance saying it was a civil matter but sided with the other side by saying they had every right to go on the land. They put me before Judge Bopi Rai because as she said herself at a previous hearing, In my court I don't take any notice of the bill of rights. She stopped me explaining in mitigation how the police refused to help me keep the peace. A 'phone call to the other side from the police could have let the civil court sort this out, but they will not help me because I make them obey the law.If I try to take out a summons of crimes committed by the police, people like the crooked Joti Rai stop me.

I love the smell of libel in the morning. Someone suggests Timbrell is also The Stig. Well they've never been seen in the same room as one another!

John shoots straight back;

It's not libellous if true. I would love her to sue me. I take it that you are antagonistic towards me. You should know that I rescued a lady/gentleman whistleblower who was mentally sectioned to silence him/her. I ave helped many others avoid the clutches of this crooked state. It's people like you who put silly comments on sites like these who allow thes crimes to continue. This crooked judge sent a man to prison for not paying his council tax which is against our bill of rights 1869 and human rights law. She said in court that she does not take notice of the bill of rights. Thanks for giving me the opportunity to add more.

Sympathy is in short supply however judging from the follow-on remarks;

Fair do.....your a couple of sandwiches short of a picnic. You claim you know the law but just make yourself look like a male appendage.

Some pay homage to Deliverance;

Forest of Dean.....Says it all, they are still learning to play the Banjo's there.

He's certainly convinced of the right of his cause and views, whatever else. But if someone came at me in his boxer shorts wielding a baseball bat he could expect a close encounter with it himself, septuagenarian or not. There's no fool like an old fool. FelixDaCat is enjoying proceedings;

Genuinely can't wait for the next instalment. I think we've probably all met someone like this chap once in our lives.

I think with that most of us can wholeheartedly agree.

[Tevildo]

My favorite part is:

Deliberating for no time at all, Judge Bopa Rai found Timbrell guilty of all charges.

It's good to see that common sense is not dead in the judiciary.

[ArthurWankspittle]

My favorite part is:

Deliberating for no time at all, Judge Bopa Rai found Timbrell guilty of all charges.

It's good to see that common sense is not dead in the judiciary.

That does have unfortunate shades of the Monty Python sketch - Can we just skip straight to the sentencing bit?

[grixit]

You should know that I rescued a lady/gentleman whistleblower who was mentally sectioned to silence him/her.

You'd think a court proceding involving a hermaphrodite would be bigger news.

[aesmith]

I feel a bit of sympathy for this guy, he's currently facing enforcement action establishing his tree surgery business and a mobile home without the required planning permissions.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/3886056 ... 1979510828

The planning issues are shown here https://acp.planninginspectorate.gov.uk ... id=3177567 and it appears that the local authority was in fact overly harsh with some of it's findings, as the appeal over turned some of their rulings. His mobile home still has to go though.

I can't help feeling that trawling for support from the likes of PLD is just going to make matters worse.

[notorial dissent]

I feel a bit of sympathy for this guy, he's currently facing enforcement action establishing his tree surgery business and a mobile home without the required planning permissions.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/3886056 ... 1979510828

The planning issues are shown here https://acp.planninginspectorate.gov.uk ... id=3177567 and it appears that the local authority was in fact overly harsh with some of it's findings, as the appeal over turned some of their rulings. His mobile home still has to go though.

I can't help feeling that trawling for support from the likes of PLD is just going to make matters worse.

How could trawling for support from PLD types possibly make it better? WHEN has that EVER happened?

[Gregg]

I feel a bit of sympathy for this guy, he's currently facing enforcement action establishing his tree surgery business and a mobile home without the required planning permissions.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/3886056 ... 1979510828

The planning issues are shown here https://acp.planninginspectorate.gov.uk ... id=3177567 and it appears that the local authority was in fact overly harsh with some of it's findings, as the appeal over turned some of their rulings. His mobile home still has to go though.

I can't help feeling that trawling for support from the likes of PLD is just going to make matters worse.

I would argue that maybe past encounters with Footles might have made the local authority a little more strict, and they're not giving an inch so that someone can take a mile.

[longdog]

I love these replies on the 'Council Tax is...' spin off group about the not even slightly vexed question of whether or not you have to pay your energy bills...

Julian Daine

It seem's you cannot be taken to court for an energy debt. However, the do apply to the court for an entry warren

Entry warren? They're employing rabbits now?

Julian Daine

& change your meter for a prepaid or key meter. This you can stop. Let them in but make it clear they must not touch anything on your property or leave any of their property, like a ley meter or such as it will be removed immediately.

That 'their property' they are not allowed to leave... That would be the meter.

"Oh... You don't want any of our property on your property? Fair enough... I'll just take these away then..."

[ArthurWankspittle]

Entry warren? They're employing rabbits now?

How do you think they lay cables these days then?

Julian Daine

& change your meter for a prepaid or key meter. This you can stop. Let them in but make it clear they must not touch anything on your property or leave any of their property, like a ley meter or such as it will be removed immediately.

Given the incoming cable is likely legally theirs up to the output side of the meter, then they won't be touching anything of "your" property. As also suggested they will leave the meter key card in it. If the "customer" wants to throw it away that's up to them (Bet most leccy firms charge for replacements these days). Also, any sparks around? Could they put in the meter but not the leads to the fuse board if one was to strictly interpret the law?
EDIT: After some reading up I think I am correct. Tails from the meter to the consumer unit is the customer's property, strictly interpreting the boundaries, the electrician could put in a card meter and leave it to the customer to connect it to the consumer board. How that works with unqualified "electricianing", insurance and the possibility of the average FMOTL being let loose with two cables protected by, at best, by an 80amp fuse, I leave to your imaginations.

[exiledscouser]

Hmmmm

Red to red......

Black to black..... and

Blew up!

They don’t like paying for anything this crew. They rather steal (abstract) the leccy than pay for it.

Maybe someday when every inch of the Uk is covered in solar panels and feckin’ windmills the price might come down a bit but it all has to be maintained and repaired, employees paid etc.

I’ve noticed that footlers usually don’t pay for water as they know they are unlikely to get cut off. But electric companies will pull the plug quite happily -and why not, you rarely get owt for nowt in this world - hence the PLD crews’ impotent rage against the one utility they have to stump up for.

[D-C]

Blast from the past


https://www.getoutofdebtfree.org/forum/ ... 8&start=10

Take a look at page 36 regarding meters. You can legally fit your own meter for gas and electricity.

Also electricity act 1989 and gas act 1986.

Now picture this. If you have no contract with the existing supplier, you have no debt and if sent to a DCA we all know any alledged debt is gone. So when they come to change your meter to pre-payment , you can arrange for your meter to be fitted by a competant person of your choice.So you are left with no contract with any supplier and their meter is gone. Any alleged link between a supplier and you is now non- existent, and your supply from your meter is straight from the national grid. How would you be billed ? and how would that be measured ?
Okay, going out on a shoe string here but their last resort, to take the main fuse........... Out pops your spare ! Proof of claim...... how ?

Seem an extreme sceario??.................. Or does it !!

Am i getting carried away ? I really dont know. It quite possibly might not be so far from a solution as it sounds... time will tell.
Sent off bill A4V, promissory note and covering letter today so see how this one turns out however many months down the line.

[longdog]

Blast from the past


https://www.getoutofdebtfree.org/forum/ ... 8&start=10

Take a look at page 36 regarding meters. You can legally fit your own meter for gas and electricity.

Also electricity act 1989 and gas act 1986.

Now picture this. If you have no contract with the existing supplier, you have no debt and if sent to a DCA we all know any alledged debt is gone. So when they come to change your meter to pre-payment , you can arrange for your meter to be fitted by a competant person of your choice.So you are left with no contract with any supplier and their meter is gone. Any alleged link between a supplier and you is now non- existent, and your supply from your meter is straight from the national grid. How would you be billed ? and how would that be measured ?
Okay, going out on a shoe string here but their last resort, to take the main fuse........... Out pops your spare ! Proof of claim...... how ?

Seem an extreme sceario??.................. Or does it !!

Am i getting carried away ? I really dont know. It quite possibly might not be so far from a solution as it sounds... time will tell.
Sent off bill A4V, promissory note and covering letter today so see how this one turns out however many months down the line.

As far as I know you can have your own meter fitted but it would have to be done by somebody who is authorised to connect it to the distribution network and it would have to be a type approved by the network and the supplier.

"Okay, going out on a shoe string here but their last resort, to take the main fuse........... Out pops your spare"

Having watched a neighbour who was absolutely determined to steal electricity I can say with some confidence that's not the last resort. The last resort is when the man with the big rubber boots and thick opera-length rubber gloves turns up with his rubber handled bolt croppers and cuts the tails down to stubs and pots the whole thing in an industrial grade epoxy that could stop an 88mm armour piercing shell.

I was speaking to the rubberist while he was doing it and he said if the electricity thief still persisted they could and would dig up the cable and remove it.

All this being billed to the householder plus multiple criminal charges and, as it was a council property, eviction.

[MaritalArtist]

I think this based on a misunderstanding or deliberate misinterpretation (probably the latter) of the law. The meter belongs to the supplier, and if you move to a new supplier the ownership is transferred. The supplier owns the meter, therefore "the owner of the meter is the supplier". So, obviously, if I own the meter I'm the supplier and only have to pay myself!
As D-C has pointed out, no reputable electrician or gas fitter will hook up a meter without approval from a supplier. If you can find someone to do it, expect big bangs and a burning house.
Afair, the Nationa Grid was privatised back in the1990s, so it doesn't "belong to everyone so I can use it free" anymore. You have to pay to use, as you always have.

[longdog]

The meter belongs to the supplier, and if you move to a new supplier the ownership is transferred.

In the case of my gas meter at least that's not quite the case. I have pre-pay meters, which suits me fine by the way, and last year the gas meter's internal battery failed so one quick call to my supplier got a man in a van en-route with a replacement. It turns out the man in the van was from a company that does nothing but own, install and replace gas meters which are then leased to whoever the supplier happens to be. So although the effect is exactly the same my supplier doesn't actually own the meter.

[The Seventh String]

As far as I know you can have your own meter fitted but it would have to be done by somebody who is authorised to connect it to the distribution network and it would have to be a type approved by the network and the supplier.

Gas work can only be done legally by a qualified and registered gas fitter. For anyone else to do work on gas, either within a property or by fitting a meter, it is not only illegal but can get the person doing the work, or if a landlord, authorising it, hefty fines or even sent to prison.

It is also highly dangerous, as demonstrated by houses and flats which have blown up following incompetent meddling with the gas fittings. Which is why only registered fitters are allowed to do it. HSE regularly prosecutes or serves prohibition notices (the breach of which is a criminal offence) on unregistered “gas fitters” and landlords who claim they’ve no idea of the identity of whoever they paid to do gas work in their properties.

If the gas suppliers discover a meter that is not authorised by them to be there they will organise the gas to the property being cut off before it reaches the meter as a matter of urgency.

Electricity supply companies also tend to frown on people replacing the approved meter with a different one. Again, disconnection is the usual response, and prosecution for the theft of the company meter is a possibility.

[ArthurWankspittle]

It is stricter than just "qualified" persons doing meter moves or swaps, IIRC. Has to be approved by the supplier or network owner.
If any of these idiots try it, then, ignoring any gas explosions or electrocutions, they are open to charges of theft, criminal damage, some more obscure interfering with supplies type laws*, working on things they aren't qualified to touch and that's before we start on any civil issues like costs and disruption to supplies for the neighbours.
If they find this sort of thing going on you are likely to be cut off. You might get put on a pre-payment meter but only after everything is sorted out and safe.

*NI apparently can get you on "handling stolen goods".

[AnOwlCalledSage]

There are rules about the mandatory fitting of pre-payment meters, this must follow the OfGem rules.

If you are contacted by the utility about an outstanding debt, you have 28 days to come to an arrangement. By law they have to give you the chance to clear the debt. They also have to offer you a payment plan.

If you refuse to co-operate they can apply for a warrant of entry which will allow them to break into the property if necessary and change the meter to pre-payment and as a bonus add the cost of warrant and meter change to your debt. However, It is highly unusual to be actually cut off. There are usually aggravating factors for that to be allowed. I suspect FOTLer stupidity would count as an aggravating factor

I had to do a fair amount of mugging up on this topic when last March my energy company sent me a bill for £3,500 despite my paying £75 a month by DD. To cut a long story short I got legal advice from the CAB and thanks to a law change on back billing they could only claim at most the last 12 months' deficit. But in the words of Alan Partridge: "needless to say, I had the last laugh". They went bust last November.

[longdog]

I had to do a fair amount of mugging up on this topic when last March my energy company sent me a bill for £3,500 despite my paying £75 a month by DD. To cut a long story short I got legal advice from the CAB and thanks to a law change on back billing they could only claim at most the last 12 months' deficit. But in the words of Alan Partridge: "needless to say, I had the last laugh". They went bust last November.

Some years ago I moved from the flat upstairs to the flat downstairs where I now reside.

I notified Npower who then proceeded to deluge me with letters saying 'thank you for joining us', 'were sorry you're leaving us' and 'Why are you writing from the wrong address?'. The fact I moved from number 26 to number 24 had them completely and utterly baffled and during a phone call It seemed their computer was unable to accept a change of address in the same street... It just assumed it was a mistake and 'corrected' it.

So eventually they closed my account and then started another one with a different account number and all was well... For a while... About a year later they sent on the same day final demands for final balances for an address in Sheffield, an address in Chesterfield and a third address in Ramsgate. All for exactly the same amount.

So... I phoned them up and told them I'd never lived in Sheffield, Chesterfield or Ramsgate and would they please correct their records... Job done... Nope...

The final, final demands came in and then the "if you don't pay we'll put a pre-pay meter in" letters and then the last warning before court action letters... I didn't bother replying.

Then the county court summonses from Northampton started arriving so I returned them all with words to the effect of "Wrong person. Not my debt" in the defence box and sent off a letter to Npower telling them how much I was looking forward to seeing them in court...

And that was the last I heard of the matter until about a year later when I got a final demand for a final balance in the exact same amount as the three addresses I never lived at but for the address I had actually lived at.

I phoned them up yet again and told them they were too late and it was well beyond the time they could bill me for energy and in any event I had a pre-payment meter so I couldn't have owed it to them anyway.

"Ah... Says the phone drone... We can collect it because we notified you repeatedly (meaning the previous fiasco) and our computer doesn't make mistakes".

I told them to sue me and that... So far... Is the end of the saga.

Chaos thy name is Npower.

[The Seventh String]

It is stricter than just "qualified" persons doing meter moves or swaps, IIRC. Has to be approved by the supplier or network owner.

Yep.

There is actually a circumstance in which you can have a meter you own fitted. That being if it is after the power company’s meter. Not much point in domestic premises other than HMOs, but sometimes done in industrial premises, using multiple meters as a way of monitoring how much gas or electricity is being consumed by various plant around the site.

And yes, replacing the “official” meter can have quite wide repercussions.

The most enterprising electricity thief I can recall was the council tenant who broke into the roof area of his block of flats, then into the lift motor room. He connected a cable to what looked like promising points to source electricity from, draped the cable down several floors until it reached his balcony then brought it into his flat from there.

He was rather surprised when the eviction notice was served.

[D-C]

Looks like we have another “Winner” who tried to use the FMOTL excuse


https://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/burton ... rt-2513424


Derbyshire Roads Policing Unit Tweeted after the court hearing, saying: "Still waiting for a ‘freeman’ defence to trump the Road Traffic Act."