IRS PDT List

[Imalawman]

I was informed recently that the IRS maintains a Potentially Dangerous Taxpayers (PDT) list for tax protesters and that such a list is capable of being limited to a defined area (such as a state, county, etc.). This list supposedly lists the TPs it views as PDTs. I know that IRM 25.4.1 authorizes the label, but I wasn't aware that there was a list of the TPs that are considered as PDTs or even a list of everyone who is considered an PDT; much less, that is was definable to a given local. Anyone know if this is true? It would be helpful to have this list when dealing with particular cases, rather than having to ask whether each person is considered a PDT (which I currently don't bother doing, but would like to know nonetheless). Before making a request to obtain it, I'd like to know if it really exists.

[Dr. Caligari]

Excuse my ignorance, but what's a "PDT"?

[Imalawman]

PDT = Pacific Daylight Time? Please Do Tax?

Give the rest of us a hint.

People, spell out what the item is, then put its abbreviation in parentheses, then you can use the abreviation the rest of the time. For example: variable universal life (VUL) insurance. That VUL policy was a real pig on costs......

Sorry, I thought it mightn't need to be spelled out. It stands for "potentially dangerous taxpayers". I.e. those that are associated with outspoken critics of the IRS and/or advocate violence. Specifically, I thought that if anyone knew if the PDT list existed, they would know what PDT meant. My apologies.

[Judge Roy Bean]

That's not the only list they maintain.

They even have one for "aggressive" preparers. I found out it wasn't what was or wasn't on my personal returns that resulted in three straight years of vigilant curiosity from the IRS's minions, it was the guy doing them for me. The third time broke the proverbial camel's back and I switched. Some hung with him but it finally put him out of the individual tax return preparation business.

I think even the most ardent pro-law enforcement among us would have to admit the general public doesn't even have a clue as to what the various government agencies are looking for, finding and compiling about anyone and anything. And if the agencies aren't doing it themselves, they're paying someone to do it for them.

What used to cost upwards of $3,000 for a weeks worth of PI feet-on-the-street time can be put together in a few hours with the right connections at the right companies.

Trust me, one way or another, we're all profiled. Just hope you don't mistakenly wind up on the wrong list and have one of those knocks on the door some day.

[Quixote]

IRM 25.4.1.8 mentions the PDT database, but doesn't go in to detail.

[Quixote]

Just hope you don't mistakenly wind up on the wrong list ...

A major oil company was designated as a PDT for several years. Earlier this year, the company contacted the Taxpayer Advocate about some problem it was having. The cae advocate assigned to the case contacted the Office of Employee Protection and had the designation removed. If I recall the story correctly, it had been placed on the account as a result of threats made by a frustrated payroll clerk.

[ASITStands]

PDT = Potentially Dangerous Taxpayers
CAU = Caution Upon Contact

If one or other of these indicators exist in relation to any particular taxpayer, it will appear on the master file transcript. It appears on the upper, right-hand side of IMFOLT or TAXMODA, or it appears just right of the first CAF [Central Authorization File] indicator.

I would approach it by reviewing one of the transcripts, and if there's an indicator, then make a request of the PDT database to find out more. The closest I can come to a reason would be if it's a former military person and / or a gun-owner who's made tax protester arguments and maybe who's threatened an RA.

It also takes more than one protest letter to gain such a designation in my experience.

[The Observer]

I was informed recently that the IRS maintains a Potentially Dangerous Taxpayers (PDT) list for tax protesters...

That is incorrect. By law the IRS is not allowed to keep any lists of tax protestors or even designate anywhere that a taxpayer is a tax protestor.

The PDT list is maintained for those taxpayers who have met a set criteria that would indicate that the taxpayer is violent or is likely to commit violence. It doesn't necessarily mean that the individual is only looking to harm IRS employees; if a person has a violent criminal record that the IRS is aware of and the person has a current tax issue that requires personal contact by IRS employees, they could very well end up on the list after review.

Not every tax protestor is violent and not every violent person is a tax protestor.

It would be helpful to have this list when dealing with particular cases, rather than having to ask whether each person is considered a PDT (which I currently don't bother doing, but would like to know nonetheless). Before making a request to obtain it, I'd like to know if it really exists.

I doubt that the PDT list would be released to anyone outside of the IRS due to disclosure laws.

[Imalawman]

I was informed recently that the IRS maintains a Potentially Dangerous Taxpayers (PDT) list for tax protesters...

That is incorrect. By law the IRS is not allowed to keep any lists of tax protestors or even designate anywhere that a taxpayer is a tax protestor.



The PDT list is maintained for those taxpayers who have met a set criteria that would indicate that the taxpayer is violent or is likely to commit violence. It doesn't necessarily mean that the individual is only looking to harm IRS employees; if a person has a violent criminal record that the IRS is aware of and the person has a current tax issue that requires personal contact by IRS employees, they could very well end up on the list after review.

Not every tax protestor is violent and not every violent person is a tax protestor.

That is what I thought. I wasn't trying to insinuate that every TP is violent. Only that some are and it would be helpful to know which ones the IRS considers potentially dangerous.

It would be helpful to have this list when dealing with particular cases, rather than having to ask whether each person is considered a PDT (which I currently don't bother doing, but would like to know nonetheless). Before making a request to obtain it, I'd like to know if it really exists.

I doubt that the PDT list would be released to anyone outside of the IRS due to disclosure laws.

Well, I only wanted it in conjunction with my work. I would think they would release it to me if I requested it. It looks as though the best thing to do is just call the intergovernmental liaison. Thanks.

[Judge Roy Bean]

... By law the IRS is not allowed to keep any lists of tax protestors or even designate anywhere that a taxpayer is a tax protestor.

I don't suppose you actually expect us to believe that, do you?

[The Observer]

... By law the IRS is not allowed to keep any lists of tax protestors or even designate anywhere that a taxpayer is a tax protestor.

I don't suppose you actually expect us to believe that, do you?

Considering the fact that the IRS is audited by TIGTA on this very issue, I would expect it is reasonable for most people to believe it. The TIGTA audits have been extensive on this issue, to the point of examining IRS employee case histories where individuals slipped up and made reference to a taxpayer as being a protestor (based on their interaction with or observation of their assigned taxpayer). Why is TIGTA conducting these audits? Because the law forbids the IRS to create the label of a tax protestor for any taxpayer, true or not. And TIGTA is enforcing the law.

But I don't actually expect YOU to believe it. I am certain that you will believe what you want to believe. But how about humoring me a little and providing some evidence to the contrary that the IRS is maintaining a systemic list of tax protestors?

[The Observer]

That is what I thought. I wasn't trying to insinuate that every TP is violent. Only that some are and it would be helpful to know which ones the IRS considers potentially dangerous.

But how would they be able to tell which TP is dangerous? The PDT list would make no reference to the individual's belief about the legality of the tax system, only as to whether the taxpayer was considered dangerous to IRS employees.

Just out of curiousity, does your agency have a system that labels taxpayers as protestors?

[Bud Dickman]

Judge wrote
I don't suppose you actually expect us to believe that, do you?

9. How is access to the data by a user determined and by whom?

The Chief, OEP, determines who has access to the system. Only employees with authorized access in OEP and IRS developers are granted access to the data. Form 5081 is required for all users.

......12. Will other agencies provide, receive, or share data in any form with this system?

Yes. Data in the EPS database is shared with other federal, state, and local law enforcement agencies. The IRS Disclosure Office handles all distribution of data from the EPS database
as required in IRC §6103(c).

http://www.irs.gov/privacy/article/0,,id=156277,00.html

http://www.irs.gov/irm/part25/ch04s01.html

[Imalawman]

That is what I thought. I wasn't trying to insinuate that every TP is violent. Only that some are and it would be helpful to know which ones the IRS considers potentially dangerous.

But how would they be able to tell which TP is dangerous? The PDT list would make no reference to the individual's belief about the legality of the tax system, only as to whether the taxpayer was considered dangerous to IRS employees.

Just out of curiousity, does your agency have a system that labels taxpayers as protestors?

Yes, all litigating taxpayers are referred to as protestors. But do you mean labeling them as "tax protestors"? There's nothing that prevents us from such labeling, but we don't do it officially. And we stay away from it in communications because it tends to inflame the taxpayer (who largely don't understand that there's the IRS and then there's us. They think we're bound by all of the IRS' rules.) But we do keep track of who is dangerous and label them accordingly. During the posse comitatus days it wasn't unheard of to have armed security when dealing with them in person.