National Liberty Alliance - Citizen Grand Juries

[NYGman]

One of the weaknesses of this forum is that it doesn't have a "ignore" feature. The falsely named Truthmonger would be a superb candidate to be ignored.

I think it may not be much of an issue, Now that he has publicly proclaimed his win and proved our ignorance and stupidity, and taken his victory lap here, I doubt he will be back. Although now I posted this, If he is still reading the thread, he may just respond, but continue to be in denial and lacking any understanding of the word salad posted. however if that happend, it will likely be fleeting, as they tend to go away when they can't back up their claims, and verify the truth, although here the "Win" didn't seem like a success in court, but perhaps acknowledgement of another small and unrelated issue, that ultimately had no impact o the outcome.

TL;DR He likely wont be around much longer for ignore to matter, they usually slink away after they claim victory to a loss, not unlike their experiences in court.

EDIT: There is an ignore feature, go to your profile, and the Friends and Foe screen. Add to Foe, and you should be able to ignore

[TBL]

Honestly, I would like Truthmonger to return. I'm not as experienced and jaded as you lot with the OPCA clientele coming to the site, ranting, then jumping off.
Truthmonger, I meant what I said earlier. The course you set is fraught with legal problems and has been tried for decades, all sporting a 0% success rate. Don't go down that rabbit hole, you will not like where it ends. If you truly feel that the justice system is that broken, take the earlier advice and run for office. Disagreement with the laws or how they are interpreted is what the legislative branch of government is all about.

[notorial dissent]

Trufy has already had his self respect smacked down hard twice here by my count. I do think Baidn is right, if Trufy lost a court case, which of course he did if believes any or all of the NLA nonsense, which in hindsight would be in keeping with an NLA lay about.

I have to say that I do think the Declaration was/is a lovely wonderful document, beautifully written and phrased, thank you very much Mr T Jefferson-the real one, and chock full of beautiful Enlightenment era sentiment and utopian beliefs. But, that is all it is. It is of NO legal value in court. Almost all sovcits seem to fall in to this trap.

[Duke2Earl]

Yes, I am one of the jaded ones. Some 40 years ago I was a young, eager technical advisor in the Associate Chief Counsel's office at IRS. I got assigned one day to answer/deal with some correspondence. (Remember when there were actual letters on paper.). These letters were from a guy in Texas. They were written in colored pencil and lavishly decorated with cut outs of eagles and flags from magazines. They were near to unreadable but the jist was that there was no law requiring anyone to pay income taxes...and so and and so on. I answered politely refuting that contention citing appropriate authority and including the pertinent publications. That was a HUGH mistake. In response I got pelted with more decorated trash and some threats. I stopped answering.

I have learned that once someone has fully imbibed of the koolaid there is literally nothing...no facts, no actual reality, not even jail will ever change them. They are totally resistant to facts, law or even the consequences not only to them but also to their family. They will literally die without any change of mind or position. Now there are grifters out there who are only in it to make a buck but the true believers are unreachable. And unfortunately there are way too many true believers out there.

Anyone who wants to argue with them...good luck. But I have painfully learned that it is better for me personally not to argue with idiots.

[TBL]

Duke, I intended no offense, I hope you didn't see my jaded comment as such. I really enjoyed your recount of your past interaction. I can at least say I attempted to change Trufy's course before he reached the waterfall. I doubted, much like you, that it would help. Anyway, I hope Truthmonger does the research I recommended, specifically outside the current NLA echo-chamber. Probably not, but a snowball's chance in hell is better than 0.

[Baidn]

Duke reminded me of a saying from an old collegue of mine that I'm very grateful to get to use "Never argue with an idiot, they'll only drag you down to their level and try to beat you with experience"

[notorial dissent]

Duke, once hit with that particular stupid stick, as you say there is usually no coming back. As it seems to go bone deep and stays.

[Duke2Earl]

The truth seems to be that once committed to the stupid path they literally can't come back. By the time they are here spouting word salad, they have given up hundreds or more likely thousands of hours and most of their life to the "cause." They have lost friends and family because of their obsession. They have committed themselves to a life outside the law. They can never have a good job...a permanent home, savings, retirement, or anything most sane people want or have...all because of their obsession with taxes. After all that and more they just can't say "never mind." To admit they were wrong would be to admit they consciously wasted their entire lives. People just can't do that. So they soldier on....in court and repeatedly and in and out of jail... until they die....usually in poverty.

It is truly sad. But there is nothing I can say that will change it even one tiny bit. Honestly, the ones I feel most sorry for are the wives and children.

[Baidn]

The sunk cost fallacy is truly a cruel mistress. The ever infamous Mike Parsons and Ed Brown are perhaps the two most complete living examples of the sad truth. Listening to there old phone calls from jail they are still completely sure they have to be correct, the truth is just too painful to face. In fairness I'm not sure I could live with myself if I lost everything and even destroyed the life of my spouse as well all for a lie.

[The Observer]

I don't think that they were hit with a stupid stick as much as this is an issue of ego/pride/hubris/narcissism. The longer they keep believing that they are right, the deeper they dig the hole for themselves. It is certainly stupid behavior, but I think if we were to know the totality of their lives, we would see that this is their behavior pattern when facing a situation where the right choice would be to accept that someone else is in charge.

I remember during a introduction to business law class many years ago where a brother and sister were attending together. While the sister presented herself as a student willing to learn and develop, the brother spent most of the time arguing with the professor over anything and everything, particularly over test results. This became even more of an issue when his sister continually outscored him on tests and exams. It never occurred to the brother that he was embarrassing himself in front of his peers and that no one needed to know about his or his sister's scores. He wasted class time for the rest of us by nitpicking every response that the professor gave in explaining why the sister had better answers; and he simply could not accept that his own answers were incomplete, off-point, or completely wrong.

This was the first semester of teaching for the professor, so he made the mistake of being tolerant towards this behavior. Before the mid-terms he finally realized that this pattern was not going to change, so he advised the brother that any questions about exams would have to be discussed during the professor's office hours. This started another argument about why that policy was being enacted and why the professor was targeting him. He finally withdrew from the class during that week and we students were relieved that this had ended.

I occasionally think of the brother and wonder if he ever became a tax denier or sovrun. It would have been easy for him to do so since he had the "it's-all-about-me "mindset perfected at that tender age.

[notorial dissent]

The sunk cost fallacy is truly a cruel mistress. The ever infamous Mike Parsons and Ed Brown are perhaps the two most complete living examples of the sad truth. Listening to there old phone calls from jail they are still completely sure they have to be correct, the truth is just too painful to face. In fairness I'm not sure I could live with myself if I lost everything and even destroyed the life of my spouse as well all for a lie.

Mikey and Ed are true textbook narcissists, clinically and pathologically. The only thing either of them care about is THEMSLEVES. This has been shown time and time again.

[lurker9000]

Every time I see this post I wonder where the "juries" are meeting since most Denny's are closed down, and if they maintain 6 feet of distance between each other at all times?

[AndyK]

Tin-can-and-string conferencing.

[notorial dissent]

Considering how "law abiding" this particular crowd is I 'm sure they are meeting in someone or other's basement to hold their deliberations since the bars, and as was pointed out, the Denny's are all closed.