Michael (of Bernicia) Waugh, UK bankster-buster

[longdog]

Don't you just love it when morons put their moroning on the internet and label it "confidential" or "legally privileged"? I'm not sure they've fully grasped the concept of the internet... Or very much else come to that.

[notorial dissent]

Don't you just love it when morons put their moroning on the internet and label it "confidential" or "legally privileged"? I'm not sure they've fully grasped the concept of the internet... Or very much else come to that.

Or what "confidential" or "legally privileged" means.

[AnOwlCalledSage]

It's usually a tricky determination on this forum to work out whether our protagonists are "mad" or "bad".

I think O'Bonkers is just plain old stupid.

And all our yesterdays have lighted fools
The way to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle!
Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage
And then is heard no more: it is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.

[TheNewSaint]

Bernicia is so lame he's borrowing ideas from "Baron" David Ward:

When a prospective lien creditor/holder applies to have his lien converted into ilien coins/tokens, after due diligence approval, he contractually agrees and accepts to the open and simple terms of the conversion contract, in that he receives 50% of his original lien value in the new minted ilien coins/tokens, and the remaining 50% of new minted ilien coins/tokens are distributed to and for the good of the ilien community, and the 100% value in its totality is receipted, rendering it debt free; The gifted 50% of ilien value, contractually given by the past lien creditor, is issued out to the ilien community and the communities supporters, in the way of bonus distributions, good cause distributions, foreign support distributions etc, in a procedurally agreed and orderly manner;

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=10950&p=272775&hilit=lien#p272775
One of the points of creating a security instrument by way of a Lien is that a security instrument is cleared funds which can be placed in a Bank as cleared funds... what we need is another vehicle. We need another commercial vehicle to transfer OUR asset from one type of commercial instrument to one we can use...

…we are now in conference at the very early stages of negotiating with a Bloch Chain Coin developer company. We are by some means and I am going to pull out all the stops to get a Lien Coin sorted. This will be the first But not the last Block chain coin that we can use as a vehicle for the transfer of commercial instruments.

Not that either of those makes any sense, but the underlying principle seems the same: a cryptocurrency whose value is based on the value of FMOTL liens.

[notorial dissent]

Yup, that is what it is. A pretend currency value based on the pretend value of a lien that doesn't exist. Nothing in to nothing is nothing.

[Pottapaug1938]

"...the remaining 50% of new minted ilien coins/tokens are distributed to and for the good of the ilien community, and the 100% value in its totality is receipted, rendering it debt free; The gifted 50% of ilien value, contractually given by the past lien creditor, is issued out to the ilien community and the communities supporters, in the way of bonus distributions, good cause distributions, foreign support distributions etc, in a procedurally agreed and orderly manner;...."

In other words, the grifter who is running this scam is raking in 50% of the value.

[notorial dissent]

"...the remaining 50% of new minted ilien coins/tokens are distributed to and for the good of the ilien community, and the 100% value in its totality is receipted, rendering it debt free; The gifted 50% of ilien value, contractually given by the past lien creditor, is issued out to the ilien community and the communities supporters, in the way of bonus distributions, good cause distributions, foreign support distributions etc, in a procedurally agreed and orderly manner;...."

In other words, the grifter who is running this scam is raking in 50% of the value.

Which of course is still ZERO, but a con has gotta con.

[HardyW]

"...the remaining 50% of new minted ilien coins/tokens are distributed to and for the good of the ilien community, and the 100% value in its totality is receipted, rendering it debt free; The gifted 50% of ilien value, contractually given by the past lien creditor, is issued out to the ilien community and the communities supporters, in the way of bonus distributions, good cause distributions, foreign support distributions etc, in a procedurally agreed and orderly manner;...."

In other words, the grifter who is running this scam is raking in 50% of the value.

For this "scam" to be a "grift" there must be a point at which Michael (O'Bernicia) Waugh is aiming to receive some actual real fiat currency. I can't see where that comes in his scheme. Compared, for example, with Peter (of England) Smith (of Germany), where punters had to contribute £35.00 in worthless fiat currency, these punters simply have to send in a worthless pretend Commercial Lien, and no one gets anything from the scheme unless you imagine the lien can somehow be redeemed for real money.

I don't recall whether Mr (O'Bernicia) Waugh collected real money from his "class action" punters in order to fund the cases in genuine courts he was planning. Maybe he is diverting their attention into this scam to prevent them from wanting their money back?

[notorial dissent]

Bearing in mind who we're talking about that may have slipped his steel trap like mind.

[longdog]

For this "scam" to be a "grift" there must be a point at which Michael (O'Bernicia) Waugh is aiming to receive some actual real fiat currency. I can't see where that comes in his scheme. Compared, for example, with Peter (of England) Smith (of Germany), where punters had to contribute £35.00 in worthless fiat currency, these punters simply have to send in a worthless pretend Commercial Lien, and no one gets anything from the scheme unless you imagine the lien can somehow be redeemed for real money.

I suspect the scam is that people send in their "liens" and get twelvety hundred iLien coins which, thanks to the generous way the things is organised, attracts more iLiens and/or goes up in "value". They are then encouraged to maximise their gains by converting worthless fiat currency into more iLien... "Look at the way they have shot up in value... The more you have the more you will make" and so on.

And then the whole thing collapses and the only one who comes out on top is the holder of the worthless fiat currency.

[notorial dissent]

For this "scam" to be a "grift" there must be a point at which Michael (O'Bernicia) Waugh is aiming to receive some actual real fiat currency. I can't see where that comes in his scheme. Compared, for example, with Peter (of England) Smith (of Germany), where punters had to contribute £35.00 in worthless fiat currency, these punters simply have to send in a worthless pretend Commercial Lien, and no one gets anything from the scheme unless you imagine the lien can somehow be redeemed for real money.

I suspect the scam is that people send in their "liens" and get twelvety hundred iLien coins which, thanks to the generous way the things is organised, attracts more iLiens and/or goes up in "value". They are then encouraged to maximise their gains by converting worthless fiat currency into more iLien... "Look at the way they have shot up in value... The more you have the more you will make" and so on.

And then the whole thing collapses and the only one who comes out on top is the holder of the worthless fiat currency.

Now that I would believe, except again for the whole who is running the scam thing. Did he actually make any serious money off the TGBMS class action scam? I 'd say from the crickets and lack of forward action-not. How can it be a "debt free" based currency if they take in worthless debt fiat?? I 'm sure he'll come up with an excuse.

[longdog]

I really can't work out if I'm not understanding how it works, even by the bizarre logic of these kooks, or it really is just complete and utter nonsense that doesn't make any sense at all.

I know the whole thing pissed off Baron von Trampbeard who was incandescent with rage that his idea had been stolen (assuming he didn't steal it off them which just as probable) so I suppose in that sense it has served some useful purpose.

[notorial dissent]

I really can't work out if I'm not understanding how it works, even by the bizarre logic of these kooks, or it really is just complete and utter nonsense that doesn't make any sense at all.

I know the whole thing pissed off Baron von Trampbeard who was incandescent with rage that his idea had been stolen (assuming he didn't steal it off them which just as probable) so I suppose in that sense it has served some useful purpose.

That pretty well covers it. It doesn't make any realistic sense. The audience he is playing to is dumber than he is so they'll eat it up, they just don't have any real money to make it pay off. This is of course just an iteration of other scams and isn't even remotely new, except to the target scamees.

Trampy wasn't even remotely original, and as I recall, got scammed by one of his developers before it all turned to dross.

[AnOwlCalledSage]

…we are now in conference at the very early stages of negotiating with a Bloch (sic) Chain Coin developer company.

Hee hee! We all know where this is going to end up! Fools and trust money is easily parted.

We need another commercial vehicle...

Is he also going to start living in a van? It's where they all seem to end up. Then of course, if O'Bonkers does get a commercial vehicle he would be travelling for commerce so that excuse would be out the window.

[TheNewSaint]

…we are now in conference at the very early stages of negotiating with a Bloch (sic) Chain Coin developer company.

Hee hee! We all know where this is going to end up! Fools and trust money is easily parted.

We need another commercial vehicle...

Is he also going to start living in a van? It's where they all seem to end up. Then of course, if O'Bonkers does get a commercial vehicle he would be travelling for commerce so that excuse would be out the window.

Those quotes are from "Baron" David Ward, not Waugh. Sorry, my post earlier on this page wasn't very clear about this.

[CrankyBoomer]

For some reason I can't see the quote button at present. Quite honestly, that could be a problem with my laptop which was never the most powerful (it's an Acer) but since I dropped it (my own fault I know) it's been even worse. Sorry to show my ignorance but what is the difference between a 'scam' and a 'grift'? I thought they were both synonyms for a confidence trick but maybe I was mistaken.

[HardyW]

For some reason I can't see the quote button at present. Quite honestly, that could be a problem with my laptop which was never the most powerful (it's an Acer) but since I dropped it (my own fault I know) it's been even worse. Sorry to show my ignorance but what is the difference between a 'scam' and a 'grift'? I thought they were both synonyms for a confidence trick but maybe I was mistaken.

If that's a question for me, the point I was making is simply that there is no obvious path for MOB to making money from iLiens, whereas POE had an explicit income stream when people joined WeRe Bank and paid for WeRe cheques.

As for the appearance of the Web forum, surely that's more likely to be your browser misbehaving. Are you able to reinstall it?

[John Uskglass]

there is no obvious path for MOB to making money from iLiens, whereas POE had an explicit income stream when people joined WeRe Bank and paid for WeRe cheques.

I wonder if we're in danger of overthinking on the iLien question.

If you follow the links to the point where you actually say you want to acquire iLiens, the checkout page is ready and waiting to take your payment via Paypal or credit card.
https://www.woolstangray.eu/checkout/

No mention of paying with promissory notes, liens, or Re...

[AnOwlCalledSage]

I wonder if we're in danger of overthinking on the iLien question.

There is also the scenario where the trust baby is not actually in need of cash himself. This is a face-saving ploy after leading the gullible down the TGBMS rabbit-hole and he needs a get out clause that he can blame on someone else when it goes wrong.

[TheNewSaint]

As best as I understand it:

1. You file a lien against someone.
2. Someone now owes you a debt.
3. You convert this debt into "lien coins."
4. You now own lien coins worth 50% of the debt. The other 50% of the value goes to the lien coin community.
5. ???
6. Profit!

It's effectively the same as Peter of England's scam, except that:

• dubious liens replace dubious promissory notes as the source of the alleged real money that's being drawn against.
• You only get 50% of the value you contribute. POE's £150,000 promissory notes gave you £150,000 in your Re checking account. This system lets you convert a lien for £150K into £75K in lien coins. (Yes, Waugh makes ReBank look like a good deal by comparison.)
• these "lien coins" are supposed to change in value, and be an investment along the lines of other cryptocurrency.

Yes, this process fails so hard and so early it's not worth analyzing. But I still can't help but wonder:

• Why would anyone convert something into 50% of what it's worth?
• Why would a lien be transferrable?
• Why would the coins appreciate in value, when they are explicitly tied to a debt of known amount?

If I'm owed a debt for £10,000, and I sell half of it to you and half of it to some group, then you each have a theoretical asset worth £5,000. First of all, there's no real benefit to you. At best, this process converts £5,000 in one form to £5,000 in another. More realistically, I benefit, because I have £5,000 now instead of some possibly uncollectable debt. A debt that will also lose value due to inflation. Which are problems #2 and #3: no premium is being charged for the conversion, and the time value of money is not accounted for. You're buying a "backed" currency that will instantly lose value, because the backing badly overstates its real value.

I guess the idea is that these coins will appreciate because people will buy them and believe in them as a store of value? But why would anyone with a basic understanding of economics... never mind, I answered my own question.