Random Freemanesque Babblings II: Back to the Futile

[Pottapaug1938]

It's also worth noting that, after Queen Anne died, the monarchs of Great Britain/the United Kingdom have been largely non-British, in terms of ancestry. King George I, in fact, was mostly German.The present Queen is probably the most British of all monarchs since then; but thanks to Prince Philip, the Prince of Wales had a lot of Danish ancestors.

[longdog]

That Mohammed is spamming the same crap all over the internet and he's either a very skilled troll or mentally ill.

I always wonder with people like him what definition of "foreigner" they are using. To the best of my knowledge the last foreign born person in my direct line was a Russian who emigrated to the East End in the mid 1800s. I wonder if that counts

[notorial dissent]

Comes back to UK, how does one determine a foreigner, Angles, Saxons, Jutes, Vikings, Picts, Normans, fill in the bill.

[longdog]

Anybody after the beaker people is probably a foreigner to somebody

[John Uskglass]

Anybody after the beaker people is probably a foreigner to somebody

Stewart Lee took that idea and ran with it...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6KVO378tjsw

And of course MoB has a bee in his bonnet along similar lines
https://www.thebernician.net/the-chedd ... r-fiction/

[mufc1959]

Wasn't Boris Johnson born in the United States?

[ArthurWankspittle]

Wasn't Boris Johnson born in the United States?

Yes. New York IIRC.

[noblepa]

Wasn't Boris Johnson born in the United States?

Yes. New York IIRC.

His father was a businessman, living in the US at the time, but was not a US citizen. He and Boris' mother were still UK citizens.

Under the 14th Amendment to the US Constitution, Boris automatically became a US citizen at birth. UK law made him a UK citizen because his parents were UK citizens.

This caused Mr. Johnson a little consternation a few years ago. I believe he was mayor of London at the time. He sold his personal residence for a tidy sum (over a million pounds, I believe).

US law says that US citizens are liable for US income tax wherever in the world it is earned. My understanding is that the UK does not tax the sale of personal residences, as does the US. Therefore, no tax treaty provisions made him immune to paying tax on the proceeds of the sale. Somehow the US Internal Revenue Service got wind of the transaction and sent him a hefty bill for tax due.

I don't know what the outcome of that episode was, but I believe he did pay something.

He has since renounced his US citizenship.

Incidentally, Meghan Markel has not renounced her US citizenship after marrying Prince Harry. That means that she is still liable for US income taxes on her worldwide income. I don't know how much taxable income she has from her position in the Royal Family, but I imagine that she still receives residuals from her acting career. Even if she were to renounce her citizenship, she would still be liable for tax on her US income; those same residuals.

I believe that her citizenship makes Prince Archie a US citizen, as well. It is not possible for a minor to renounce US citizenship. Nor is it possible for a parent or guardian to renounce citizenship on the child's behalf. So, Archie is a US citizen, at least until his 18th birthday, when he could legally renounce his citizenship. This means that he is also liable for US income tax.

[Burnaby49]

This caused Mr. Johnson a little consternation a few years ago. I believe he was mayor of London at the time. He sold his personal residence for a tidy sum (over a million pounds, I believe).

US law says that US citizens are liable for US income tax wherever in the world it is earned. My understanding is that the UK does not tax the sale of personal residences, as does the US. Therefore, no tax treaty provisions made him immune to paying tax on the proceeds of the sale. Somehow the US Internal Revenue Service got wind of the transaction and sent him a hefty bill for tax due.

I don't know what the outcome of that episode was, but I believe he did pay something.

That's certainly the situation in Canada. we have a lot of US citizens who came here and got Canadian citizenship and have lived here for decades, one guy I know in his 50's came here as a baby. They are all subject to American income tax, even my friend the baby who has never worked or made any income in the United States. They get tax relief on most income earned here via the provisions of the US-Canada tax treaty that eliminates double taxation. But a huge one not exempt by treaty terms is the gain on the sale of personal residences because the treaty only covers income sources taxable in both countries and personal residences aren't taxed in Canada but are in the US. Under an information sharing agreement the US can access this information and apparently they are quite aggressive in doing so. Dual citizen Canadian complain about this all the time, ranting and raving how it's unfair but the solution is in their hands, renounce the American citizenship. Few of them need both, my friend who's spent his whole life in Canada certainly has no need for an American citizenship. But the few I've mentioned this to get quite affronted and argue that Canada should do something about it. Such as? It's American tax law that's causing the problem, Since Canada doesn't tax gains on personal residences Canada really has nothing to do with their problems.

[HardyW]

The pernicious thing about these US laws with extraterritorial effect is the heavy handed way the US expects to be able enforce them using its worldwide dominance in many areas of life. But still I'm not quite sure how they would collect those taxes on a Canadian /US citizen who never settles in the US.

[jcolvin2]

But still I'm not quite sure how they would collect those taxes on a Canadian /US citizen who never settles in the US.

The income tax treaty between the US and Canada provides for mutual assistance in the collection of taxes. Only a handful of the US tax treaties allow for mutual assistance in collection: France, the Netherlands, a couple of the Scandinavian countries, and (as of late 2019) Japan.

[Burnaby49]

As jcolvin2 noted the Canada Revenue Agency would step in to help collect, at least I assume it would be the CRA's responsibility. While I worked for them for 35 years I know next to nothing about the CRA collections section but I am aware of the joint collection agreement. Additionally most dual citizens, like many other Canadians, frequently travel back and forth across the border. I'd assume that an American citizen living in Canada (regardless of not residing in the US for decades) and owing significant taxes in America would have a flag at the border if he tried to cross. As far as the IRS is concerned he's no different than someone living in Oklahoma.

[mufc1959]

Seen in the news today, a Footler protesting at the lockdown.



What's that he's saying?

I AM A FREE
I AM NOT MAN
A NUMBER

[jcolvin2]

Seen in the news today, a Footler protesting at the lockdown.

He best be careful or he will be transported to the Village (or, failing that, Portmeirion).

[noblepa]

Seen in the news today, a Footler protesting at the lockdown.

He best be careful or he will be transported to the Village (or, failing that, Portmeirion).

If I ever make it to the UK, I'd love to visit Portmeirion. I've located it on the map, and it doesn't seem to be near any large cities, so it would be a pretty significant side trip from, say, London. IIRC, its on the west coast of Wales.

[noblepa]

As jcolvin2 noted the Canada Revenue Agency would step in to help collect, at least I assume it would be the CRA's responsibility. While I worked for them for 35 years I know next to nothing about the CRA collections section but I am aware of the joint collection agreement. Additionally most dual citizens, like many other Canadians, frequently travel back and forth across the border. I'd assume that an American citizen living in Canada (regardless of not residing in the US for decades) and owing significant taxes in America would have a flag at the border if he tried to cross. As far as the IRS is concerned he's no different than someone living in Oklahoma.

One thing that such expats have going for them is that, if they have lived their entire lives in Canada, and received income strictly from Canadian sources, the IRS probably doesn't know about them. I assume that Canadian employers are not required to report income to the US IRS, even if they know that their employee is a US citizen.

Such draconian tax laws weren't always the case. When I was much younger, I remember hearing about petroleum engineers who made a very good living working for Aramco in Saudi Arabia and other middle eastern oil producing companies. One of the attractions was that the income was more than they could make in the US, but was not taxable.

I believe it was during the Carter administration that this changed, and they began taxing worldwide income.

The law of unintended consequences kicked in, though. It was suddenly much less financially attractive and Aramco didn't want to pay even more, to make up for the US taxes. The upshot was that most of the Americans came home and were replaced by German or French engineers.

When it came time to purchase expensive drilling and/or refining equipment, the Germans were more likely to buy from a German firm than an American one.

So, not only did the US not collect a windfall in taxes from these engineers, but it cost business for American manufacturers of drilling and refining equipment.

[exiledscouser]

Seen in the news today, a Footler protesting at the lockdown.

He best be careful or he will be transported to the Village (or, failing that, Portmeirion).

If I ever make it to the UK, I'd love to visit Portmeirion. I've located it on the map, and it doesn't seem to be near any large cities, so it would be a pretty significant side trip from, say, London. IIRC, its on the west coast of Wales.

It’s a gem. If you ever wash up here it’s a great place to visit. It’s in the Lee of the Gulf Stream with an amazing beach and a micro climate all it’s own.

Whilst you’re there the ghosts of No. 6 echo about the place with Mini Mokes and great while plastic bubbles chasing you down. I’m a bit of a Prisoner nut and have been there lots of times over the years.

It never seems to change, the style of the place gets you. You’ll have to brave Porthmadog for somewhere to stay unless you pay top dollar for a bed at the hotel next to the stone boat.

[NYGman]

Actually FATCA was a big issue for these US born and living in Canada folk. I saw several "Canadians" flagged in this process and I know Canadian banks are reporting them under their FATCA obligations.

Reminds me of one guy who provided both a W8-BEN and a W9 but wrote on the W9, I left in 68 and haven't been back. Unfortunately that didn't matter, and upon enquiry if they had given up their citizenship, they said no, and we ultimately had to report, regardless of their insisting he was not subject because of a prolonged absence.

I know from my buddy at CIBC that they do a lot of FATCA reporting of US and undocumented accounts, in fact so much that CRA had to issue new guidelines. So I would say these people could have issues if they try to return, and may be flagged at some point by the IRS. Time will tell.

[Burnaby49]

As I've said I know little about the CRA's involvement in all of this but the news certainly indicates that the IRS is very aggressive in pursuing American citizens resident in Canada regardless of how attached they are to their native country.

[CrankyBoomer]

mfuc1959 has pre-empted me, because I was going to ask if anyone had seen the Ftlers on the UK news. To date I've never met a Ftler in the wild in real life and the incident mentioned by mfuc1959 (hope I've remembered the name correctly) is the first time I've seen any shown in the mainstream media. I saw something on YouTube a few years ago where some Ftlers had gone to a Catholic church in Coventry 'to arrest the Pope' (though I would have thought even Ftlers knew the Pope lived in Rome not Coventry).

I don't have Sky but I sometimes watch its YouTube news channel - there was a video which wasn't actually the news livestream (which is what I usually watch if I go online to see said channel) but people were asking various people about the proposed easing of the lockdown measures in Britain. I was amazed by some of the comments under the video - there were obviously a lot of people who had swallowed the 'Covid-19 is a fake', 'it's just the flu', 'it's just the common cold' narrative. I try to give folk the benefit of the doubt if I can but I'm coming to think there is something in the saying "You can't fix stupid". Some folk were saying teachers were lazy and wanted extra holiday. From what I know from people of my age* who have adult children who are teachers, the educators have to go to loads of the meetings in the school holidays and spend a lot of holiday time doing lesson plans and while it may not be true of every school, some teachers have continued to teach classes via Zoom or other meeting applications. (When not in lockdown some of them do grandparent duty in the school holidays so their adult children can work).

This is a genuine question, does anyone have any idea when and possibly why some of the population now deem the mainstream media to be untrustworthy. I think most people are aware that the mainstream media can "spin" a subject but there is a section of the population who are vocal on social media who are calling the mainstream media downright liars. While I will concede we very likely get an edited version of the truth it is possible (not saying it's easy but it's possible) to hold the mainstream media accountable. Some of the alternative media are decidedly dodgy themselves I feel. But why this widespread mistrust of the media currently? I know some people feel aggrieved that the unpleasant side of Jimmy Savile's character was glossed over till after his death but it was "The Oldie" magazine (okay maybe that's not strictly speaking mainstream) and an ITV documentary (which is most certainly mainstream) which 'broke' the story, so it just isn't true that the mainstream media didn't cover the story. I don't know if any small magazines had hinted at the story before.