Robert 'Crab Bait' White consents to losing his houses

[Pottapaug1938]

HMO? On this side of The Pond, those initials mean "Health Maintenance Organization." I presume that on the Eastern Shore, they mean something different.

[aesmith]

House in Multiple Occupation. Unrelated tenants sharing facilities within the same house.

[Pottapaug1938]

We used to have a term, '"POSSLQ", which stood for Persons Of the Opposite Sex Sharing Living Quarters." It went out of use around 30 years ago.

[HardyW]

Your POSSLQ seems to me rather like a "significant other" situation. That is not an HMO.

HMO is where a landlord rents out the house to (for example) 6 students or other sharers, who each have their own tenancy agreement and pay their own rent, for a bedroom and share of the kitchen and other house facilities. But for council tax purposes there is one premises, and one bill is sent by the council to the landlord not the tenants.

[Pottapaug1938]

Your POSSLQ seems to me rather like a "significant other" situation. That is not an HMO.

HMO is where a landlord rents out the house to (for example) 6 students or other sharers, who each have their own tenancy agreement and pay their own rent, for a bedroom and share of the kitchen and other house facilities. But for council tax purposes there is one premises, and one bill is sent by the council to the landlord not the tenants.

POSSLQ was indeed sometimes applicable to "significant other" situations; but it also applied to student rentals of an apartment or house. The difference from a HMO is that there is only one tenancy agreement, and one pooled rent payment. I guess that our closest counterpart to a British HMO is a SRO -- a rooming house set up for Single Room Occupancy.

[AnOwlCalledSage]

The difference from a HMO is that there is only one tenancy agreement, and one pooled rent payment. I guess that our closest counterpart to a British HMO is a SRO -- a rooming house set up for Single Room Occupancy.

Back in the day, finding out my girlfriend in NYC had a male room mate did raise a few questions before I twigged that "room mate" has a different meaning in the US. In the UK it is literally a person who sleeps in your room, rather than a person who has a room in a shared flat.

[aesmith]

Following the well trodden FMOL path he's now trying his hand with FOI requests ...
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/user/bob_white

And the obligatory rant when he doesn't get the response he hoped for ...

Dear EnforcementKILO,
No, I am not satisfied with your response I think you need to re-think your response. Please explain how the information I asked for would prejudice law enforcement. Anyone can download and print a blank copy of the N49 Warrant for Possession of Land, which can then be filled in by anyone, please see the link.
https://irp-cdn.multiscreensite.com/56e1...
The reason I have asked for the information is because I have been assaulted by police on the strength of them believing an alleged N49 warrant to be a real warrant, which I have disputed because there was no evidence to prove that the alleged warrant was legal. That is the reason I need to know what the correct procedures are when police, bailiffs and contractors act on the alleged warrant. If you do not change your decision to disclose the requested information, then I will be requesting an internal review.

Yours sincerely,

Bob White

[longdog]

which I have disputed because there was no evidence to prove that the alleged warrant was legal.

Trying to shift the burden of proof again. Where's his evidence that the warrant was not legal?

[noblepa]

Following the well trodden FMOL path he's now trying his hand with FOI requests ...
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/user/bob_white

And the obligatory rant when he doesn't get the response he hoped for ...

Dear EnforcementKILO,
No, I am not satisfied with your response I think you need to re-think your response. Please explain how the information I asked for would prejudice law enforcement. Anyone can download and print a blank copy of the N49 Warrant for Possession of Land, which can then be filled in by anyone, please see the link.
https://irp-cdn.multiscreensite.com/56e1...
The reason I have asked for the information is because I have been assaulted by police on the strength of them believing an alleged N49 warrant to be a real warrant, which I have disputed because there was no evidence to prove that the alleged warrant was legal. That is the reason I need to know what the correct procedures are when police, bailiffs and contractors act on the alleged warrant. If you do not change your decision to disclose the requested information, then I will be requesting an internal review.

Yours sincerely,

Bob White

While I agree that Mr. White is a fool, I'm not sure that I understand how the information he is asking for would compromise law enforcement. It seems to me that such policies should be publicly available.

He wasn't even asking for information specific to his case, just general policies that the law enforcement agencies are to follow.

Granted, if he were to get the information, he would find some way to misinterpret it to "prove" that his evictions and foreclosures were "illegal", but that shouldn't mean that the information should not be available to the public.

It is also true that I am an American and not terribly familiar with British law, but I do believe that the principles are very similar to American law.

Can someone enlighten me?

[noblepa]

which I have disputed because there was no evidence to prove that the alleged warrant was legal.

Trying to shift the burden of proof again. Where's his evidence that the warrant was not legal?

Well, if he can show that the police did not follow their own policies, it would go a long way towards showing just that. But, first he must know what those policies are.

[TheNewSaint]

Here's what he asked for, and the answer he got:

Please provide a copy of the policy requirements for enforcement agents when acting
on a county court warrant N49 Warrant for Possession of Land.

Please provide a copy of the policy requirements for enforcement agents asking for
police assistance when acting on a county court warrant N49 Warrant for Possession
of Land.

Please provide a copy of the policy requirements for enforcement agents asking for a
locksmith to assist when acting on a county court warrant N49 Warrant for
Possession of Land.

Please provide a copy of the policy requirements for enforcement agents when acting
on a county court warrant N49 Warrant for Possession of Land when a claimant
approves the use of reasonable force to enter a residential premises or property.

Please provide a copy of the standard form used by enforcement agents asking for
police assistance in England and Wales, when acting on a county court warrant N49
Warrant for Possession of Land.

Please provide a copy of the standard form used by enforcement agents of the county
courts in England and Wales when asking locksmiths and other contractors to assist
in acting on a county court warrant N49 Warrant for Possession of Land.

I can confirm that the department holds information that you have asked for. However, in
this case, we will not be providing it to you as it is exempt from disclosure under Section 31 –
Law Enforcement, 31(c):

We are not obliged to provide information if its release would prejudice law enforcement. As
well as preventing any prejudice to cases, section 31(1) (c) can protect a wide range of
judicial bodies such as courts, coroner’s courts and tribunals that would in any way interfere
with their efficiency and effectiveness, or their ability to conduct proceedings fairly. It would
also cover any disclosures that would interfere with the execution of process and order in
civil cases.

[AnOwlCalledSage]

As someone who has successfully appealed a rejection via the ICO, most of what he has asked for seems to be "reasonable". It won't give him the answers he wants, but hey, nothing will.

However, this (for a person who has threatened to booby trap his house) may be what gives them the right to reject it in its entirety.

Please provide a copy of the policy requirements for enforcement agents when acting on a county court warrant N49 Warrant for Possession of Land when a claimant approves the use of reasonable force to enter a residential premises or property.

A blow by blow (see what I did there!) set of instructions of police procedures in these circumstances may, perhaps, not be something you would want a perp to know!

[John Uskglass]

It looks to me as if 'Kilo Team' may have confused policy and procedure. I can see no reason why the overall guidance and principles court officers etc are expected to follow should not be available to the public. As the Owl says, accessing the 'operations manual' is a different story.

As someone who has written many 'policy and procedures' documents, and had to maintain compliance with them, I have found it quite common for people to be unable to see the distinction between them. And that's doubled in spades if the document is poorly drafted.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if White is able to successfully challenge the decision.

[TBL]

Agreed, even in law enforcement, our policies were very general but the procedures we used to execute things like warrants were generally very fluid and discussed en route or before heading to a known situation.
The officers involved will know or be told about the lunatic involved and be prepared to counter his actions. Usually, policies will allow great latitude for the commanding officer on the scene to resolve it rather unconventionally if the standard process was expected.

[Hercule Parrot]

I wouldn't be at all surprised if White is able to successfully challenge the decision.

I agree. The policy documents used by state agencies should be accessible to the public by default, but an obsessive culture of secrecy still dominates.

[aesmith]

No news from the Crab, but I thought of him when I saw this headline. Why am I not surprised ..
Covid rules 'disregarded' as Swale becomes second worst-hit area

[Hercule Parrot]

The good burghers of Kent are far from happy bunnies. The whole county has been dragged into Tier 3 Covid restrictions, because of those grubby and reckless working class oiks in Thanet and Swale.

And this comes straight after the news that half of Kent is going to be tarmacked to create vast truck parks. One such Modern Wonder is being built now, and dubbed Farage's Garage. Capacity for 2,000 articulated HGV's, and that's just one of 29 being hastily constructed. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/h ... 78893.html

Better still, nobody remembered the drivers. So there's now a further panic to build washrooms and leisure facilities, shops etc at these sites, to prevent 2,000 bored truckers swarming into quaint nearby villages 24/7 and demanding greasy food, gentlemen's relaxation literature etc.

[aesmith]

Possible date to look out for ...

Robert White shared a link.
Eviction update.
I don’t understand all the legalese and CPR rules BS when it comes to mortgage possession orders, but I’ve got a question for those who know.
If a legal fiction has a mortgage with a bank, say Natwest for instance, does that make Natwest the landlord?
I only ask because I got a SAR today from Court Enforcement Services who reckon they’re going to evict me sometime after the 11th January 2021, and reading through it Natwest are mentioned as the landlord numerous times.
I’ll share the email with known friends if anyone wants to read it. It’s a boring read but there are some interesting bits among the redacted bits. For instance, they will be using an extra enforcement agent and police assistance to force entry. 2021 should be interesting and my grand finale if I’m still covid free

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1957436 ... 920765548/

[AnOwlCalledSage]

Robert White shared a link.
If a legal fiction has a mortgage with a bank, say Natwest for instance, does that make Natwest the landlord?

Doesn't the administrator already have a High Court writ for the house, and Nat West are simply a secured creditor, as per the Land Registry entry? He's simply been lucky with the Covid regulations so far or he'd have been out last April.

[mufc1959]

From the comments:

Desmond Troy England
Simple really WE NEVER OWN OUR HOMES!!! Not rocket science. Otherwise they would not be able to take them as easily as they can.

Funnily enough, I own my own home. But that's because every month, without fail, I paid the mortgage (plus a bit more) until - guess what? I OWN THE HOUSE! Not rocket science.