Random Freemanesque Babblings II: Back to the Futile

[wserra]

Utterly inhumane and I would argue totally incompatible with UK concepts of human rights.

[Ahem]Long Kesh.[/Ahem]

Very few innocent governments in this world.

[longdog]

. Utterly inhumane and I would argue totally incompatible with UK concepts of human rights.

Haven't you been listening to the Home Secretary? You sound like one of those lefty activist do-gooder lawyers...

Insert the words "barrack room" before "lawyer" and you'd be spot on

What was that shit she came out with last week? Something about government policy being thwarted by lawyers with their irrational habit of using the law to protect the most vulnerable and their pesky insistence on the government having to obey it?

[longdog]

Utterly inhumane and I would argue totally incompatible with UK concepts of human rights.

[Ahem]Long Kesh.[/Ahem]

Very few innocent governments in this world.

[ahem]The past[/ahem]

[ahem]But you're not wrong[/ahem]

[John Uskglass]

Something about government policy being thwarted by lawyers with their irrational habit of using the law to protect the most vulnerable and their pesky insistence on the government having to obey it?

We seem to have come some distance from Thatcher's party of Laura Norder. Mind you, I always said that if Johnson got to be PM, it'd end in tiers...

I'll get me coat.

[TheRambler]

Utterly inhumane and I would argue totally incompatible with UK concepts of human rights.

[Ahem]Long Kesh.[/Ahem]

Very few innocent governments in this world.

[ahem]The past[/ahem]

[ahem]But you're not wrong[/ahem]

OTOH, a former colleague worked for the Prison Service in Northern Ireland during that period. He told me how much he enjoyed his subsequent posting to Wormwood Scrubs where he only had to deal with ordinary decent criminals. The levels of intimidation on both sides of the sectarian divide were appalling, something that those who haven’t set foot in the province or the southern border counties can never imagine. The local version of Omertà was backed up by very real menace. The problem still exists, probably more so in the south where it has been exploited by opportunistic criminals. But that’s not mentioned in modern polite Irish EU society.

A rather cynical and world weary Rambler

[Dr. Caligari]

One of the commentators said something to the effect that, in an extradition hearing, there are only two real questions: can the defendant expect a fair trial and is he/she, in fact, the person they are looking for. You can't argue that you are innocent. That is for the jury to decide.

I once, many years ago, represented someone fighting extradition from the U.S. to Italy. There are a few more defenses you can raise, but not many. The extradition request must be in the proper form and signed by the proper foreign official; the allegations of the extradition request, taken as true (the defendant can't deny them), must be sufficient to show probable cause that the defendant committed a crime; the crime must be one listed in the extradition treaty; a few more that I can't remember, but there is almost never anything you can seriously contest. As you pointed out, "I'm innocent" isn't a defense to extradition, it's something you raise at your trial after you're extradited.

In my case, the client had good Italian lawyers who were trying to negotiate a plea bargain over there; our job was to raise as many issues as we could, not to defeat extradition, which would have been impossible, but to delay it long enough so that, when the client was sent back to Italy, he was facing reduced charges and a much less serious sentence.

[noblepa]

One of the commentators said something to the effect that, in an extradition hearing, there are only two real questions: can the defendant expect a fair trial and is he/she, in fact, the person they are looking for. You can't argue that you are innocent. That is for the jury to decide.

I once, many years ago, represented someone fighting extradition from the U.S. to Italy. There are a few more defenses you can raise, but not many. The extradition request must be in the proper form and signed by the proper foreign official; the allegations of the extradition request, taken as true (the defendant can't deny them), must be sufficient to show probable cause that the defendant committed a crime; the crime must be one listed in the extradition treaty; a few more that I can't remember, but there is almost never anything you can seriously contest. As you pointed out, "I'm innocent" isn't a defense to extradition, it's something you raise at your trial after you're extradited.

In my case, the client had good Italian lawyers who were trying to negotiate a plea bargain over there; our job was to raise as many issues as we could, not to defeat extradition, which would have been impossible, but to delay it long enough so that, when the client was sent back to Italy, he was facing reduced charges and a much less serious sentence.

In the Demjanjuk case (I checked the spelling), his lawyers were mostly arguing that he was NOT the guard known as "Ivan the Terrible" and shown in a Nazi identification card. That was really an "I'm innocent" defense, as Israel was looking for John Demjanjuk.

He was eventually extradited to Israel. There, he was convicted, but the Israeli Supreme Court overturned the conviction and he eventually returned to the US.

[AnOwlCalledSage]

Not heard of Terry Harrison before, but if you wade through the over two hours of video, he does have a straight line of FOTLer Bingo phrases in it.

Root problem seems to be a failure to appear at a magistrates court, resulting in a bench warrant for his arrest. However, (and this is the funny bit) he claims to have been there. It's unclear what exactly happened but it seems that he claims to have given them a piece of paper. I think we can guess how he ended up simultaneously both there and not there - Schrödinger's FOTLer Equation.

He also says he was in police cells for 33 hours for refusing to give his name after a traffic stop.

Oh, and a little tip for Terry. If you are facing a charge for driving under the influence of marijuana... don't publish a video admitting that you drive under the influence of marijuana. The "I'm too mellowed out to crash" defence doesn't work under English law. And it's not any level will see you in court. There has to be enough to impair driving, not just it has been detected.

I'm using Van's video as it's easier for most than the Facebook link, but for those who use it the link is also below.



Original Facebook

[John Uskglass]

And it's not any level will see you in court. There has to be enough to impair driving, not just it has been detected.

That's questionable.

Despite evidence that demonstrates that alcohol impairs drivers far more than THC, the limits for THC are far lower than that of alcohol. It should be noted that THC does impair an individual’s ability to drive a vehicle. However, the current limit is so low that it will criminalise a lot of people who are not affected by the THC they have consumed, at the time of driving.

https://www.drugscience.org.uk/thc-vs-a ... d-driving/

[TheRambler]

Root problem seems to be a failure to appear at a magistrates court, resulting in a bench warrant for his arrest. However, (and this is the funny bit) he claims to have been there. It's unclear what exactly happened but it seems that he claims to have given them a piece of paper. I think we can guess how he ended up simultaneously both there and not there - Schrödinger's FOTLer

This sure fire, success guaranteed ploy is a not uncommon FOTLer tactic. They attend court; or a police station; announce their presence and sometimes even leave a note to confirm their attendance. Having done that they leave. Obviously they cannot be accused of not attending because they did - see? That’ll be the end of it then, works every time, absolutely foolproof.

Although it happens you don’t usually hear much about it unless they ‘fess up about their “success” having been subsequently dealt with more harshly than would have been the case if they had just appeared as requested. I know of one “player” who ended up spending a total of 8 weeks on remand for something that was only going to get him a suspended sentence anyway.

TheRambler

[AnOwlCalledSage]

That's questionable.

I'd probably agree with you. I've been nissed as a pewt on a single pint and therefore below the drink drive alcohol limit, and "sober as a judge" after 4 pints. Tolerance, food intake etc.

The truth is we don't know the level he had, but he repeats that he smokes it everyday, and all it does is mellow him out when he's driving so he doesn't drive aggressively, so I suspect he's not really going to be a cause célèbre in the campaign for a more equitable limit.

[doublelong]

Seems to be happening with a lot more not sure if it is a lack of patience with the courts having such a backlog. A local freeman in my home town was sentenced 5 weeks ago in his absence because the magistrate would not reply to his jurisdiction claims. He also refused to give his full name and got 8 weeks B&B, warrant issued for nonattendance. Last week he was let out to serve 4 weeks on tag refused to give his full name to the tag people and on Friday he was picked up and taken back to the B&B.

[John Uskglass]

Thanks for posting that, Owl. I didn't see myself getting through the whole thing, but it is strangely watchable, and as you say, contains almost a full set of FMOTL related memes up to and including the idea that the Earth is flat.

Mr Harrison's distrust of the authorities is understandable:

Following a false rape accusation against him, Terry Harrison was remanded in custody and spent months trying to clear his name.

(Photo makes it clear that this is the same person)

https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/ ... -innocent/

It may be that there are two people with the same name of the same age living in that area of County Durham, but this
may explain the background to the current contretemps:

A MOTORIST involved in a three-car pile-up is calling for speed bumps to make a dangerous crossroad in the dale safer.
Terry Harrison, from Crook, was travelling home from Barnard Castle on Wednesday, March 4, when he was involved in a three-car accident at Kinninvie crossroads.
It was the third of four crashes at the danger spot in as many weeks – the most recent, saw a SUV career through the wall of one of the houses and into a family’s dining room.
Mr Harrison, 46, said it was dusk as he approached Kinninvie that evening and he did not see the warning signs.
Mr Harrison added: “It just jumped out at me. It was just too late.
“It could have been a lot worse.”

https://www.teesdalemercury.co.uk/news/ ... n-accident

And this is definitely him again. Again, makes his actions more understandable. (edit - in terms of wanting to avoid custody)

A NORTH-EAST engineer has been jailed for three months for groping an air stewardess’ bottom during a flight to Dubai.

Terry Harrison, of Newton Aycliffe, County Durham, had been drinking vodka on the Emirates flight from Bangkok and was arrested when the plane landed in Dubai on April 2.

The 40-year-old, who claimed the woman brushed against him, has been in prison since then awaiting his court appearance at Dubai Criminal Court this week

https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/ ... ss-bottom/

[longdog]

And it's not any level will see you in court. There has to be enough to impair driving, not just it has been detected.

That's questionable.

Despite evidence that demonstrates that alcohol impairs drivers far more than THC, the limits for THC are far lower than that of alcohol. It should be noted that THC does impair an individual’s ability to drive a vehicle. However, the current limit is so low that it will criminalise a lot of people who are not affected by the THC they have consumed, at the time of driving.

https://www.drugscience.org.uk/thc-vs-a ... d-driving/

I doubt the level of THC in the blood has the same relationship to impairment as alcohol. I could drink four pints every night and be fine to drive every next morning. If I have a big cigarette or three more than two nights on the trot my ability to think straight can be out of whack for anything up to a week.

At normal social drinking levels alcohol has minimal effects on the old think-box once it's been recycled with the aid of Armitage Shanks. Cannabis clouds your thinking for a significant period afterwards and unfortunately also clouds your ability to realise it's doing it. When you have these all-day-every-day stoners it's hard not to join the dots between their inability to show moderation and their willingness to believe a load of conspiritard twaddle.

[noblepa]

Root problem seems to be a failure to appear at a magistrates court, resulting in a bench warrant for his arrest. However, (and this is the funny bit) he claims to have been there. It's unclear what exactly happened but it seems that he claims to have given them a piece of paper. I think we can guess how he ended up simultaneously both there and not there - Schrödinger's FOTLer

This sure fire, success guaranteed ploy is a not uncommon FOTLer tactic. They attend court; or a police station; announce their presence and sometimes even leave a note to confirm their attendance. Having done that they leave. Obviously they cannot be accused of not attending because they did - see? That’ll be the end of it then, works every time, absolutely foolproof.

Although it happens you don’t usually hear much about it unless they ‘fess up about their “success” having been subsequently dealt with more harshly than would have been the case if they had just appeared as requested. I know of one “player” who ended up spending a total of 8 weeks on remand for something that was only going to get him a suspended sentence anyway.

TheRambler

One tactic that has been used by some American sovcits, noteably Terry Trussel, is to show up for court and, when their case is called, loudly announce (from behind the bar) that he, the Living Man Terry of the family Trussel is making a special appearance to represent the estate of the legal fiction TERRY TRUSSEL. In Terry's case, this was repeated three times, with the same response. After the third time, the judge issued a warrant for his arrest for failure to appear, and ordered the bailliff to arrest the tall man in the third row. He was actually arrested IN THE COURTROOM, for failure to appear.

[Burnaby49]

That's not uncommon. Sometimes the judges have them arrested for non-appearance in the court, other times they wait until the idiot walks out of the courtroom then arrest him. It happened to Peter Balogh, a Paradigm tax evader I reported on here;

viewtopic.php?f=50&t=11111&sid=d587a9d1 ... 288984140

If I recall Balogh spent a day or two in jail before he finally admitted that he was the guy in the indictment.

[notorial dissent]

It's always more fun if you nab them just as they are trying to leave the courtroom.

[mufc1959]

Desperate times call for desperate measures, and it seems the old DD Indemnity Clawback Fraud is rearing its ugly head again.

[AnOwlCalledSage]

I believe that automatic clawback has been tightened up because of abuse.

[notorial dissent]

I believe that automatic clawback has been tightened up because of abuse.

Fancy that, having to PROVE that the payment was taken in error, what is the world coming to????? Next thing you know, they'll be expecting you to be responsible for your debts.