Psam Frank - Sovereign with his own laws and court

[AnOwlCalledSage]

That’s totally okay that you hate me though. I’m okay with it.

Oh behave. No-one hates you. We just think you are an idiot.

[JamesVincent]

Speaking of wilfully blind,
[snip a bunch of dumb, irrelevant shit]
Do you disagree that s.24 of the Charter gives the courts the authority to confer conditional statutory jurisdiction upon the ISS if it is the only available means of providing a remedy for a right that is denied without demonstrable justification as per section 1 of the Charter?

Makes no difference if Burnaby agrees that the sun rises in the west. That's a question for the court to decide, which they will say no. Again. You want the laws changed become a lawmaker or a lobbyist. Less talk, more action.

[Pottapaug1938]

Psam says: "Do you disagree that s.24 of the Charter gives the courts the authority to confer conditional statutory jurisdiction upon the ISS if it is the only available means of providing a remedy for a right that is denied without demonstrable justification as per section 1 of the Charter?"

For the question to be answered in the affirmative, you would have to show that a certain right exists, under the Canadian Constitution and its body of laws, and that you and the ISS people are being denied that right. You have not come close to enunciating any such right; the best you've done is to offer us quotes, mined from court decisions, which you claim supports your assertions of denials of rights.

You haven't come even remotely close to that. You are essentially saying that your courts should create this right out of whole cloth, and in disregard of other existing laws, and claiming that those laws are invalid because of oppression of First Nations people, or something.

You also offer us yet more excuses as to why you have not gone to court, in recent years, to get your claims vindicated. You claim that patience and preparation are to your advantage. Well, if I were still in practice, and wanted to get the courts to vindicate a right which I saw in the law but was being denied, I'd keep my mouth shut about it until I had identified and verified sources, in laws or case law, which supported my claim. I wouldn't simply proclaim that the right exists, and then cast about for quotes which seemed to support my assertions.

But to answer your question directly: no. You have never enunciated a "right that is is denied without demonstrable justification as per section 1 of the Charter." You have never shown that such a right exists. Until such time as you do, we will give your posts the Wnuck/Crain treatment.

[TheNewSaint]

For the question to be answered in the affirmative, you would have to show that a certain right exists, under the Canadian Constitution and its body of laws, and that you and the ISS people are being denied that right.

Is there any evidence that "ISS people" other than Psam exist?

[eric]

Is there any evidence that "ISS people" other than Psam exist?

From what I can tell at the most it never has had more than two or three members and none other than Psam have been active since about 2017 or so and even then these other members only appeared once or twice on the ISS society blog. Even if they were real people since they never had conversations with others. As you may (or may not) remember I challenged Psam to tell me exactly when the "ISS people" and the appropriate committee made the changes to their External Legislation Registry regarding the sale of sexual favours. He never replied, probably because the edits to it have been made in tandem with the arguments he has been making here on Quatloos.
http://issociety.org/wp-content/uploads/ELR.pdf
I strongly suspect the committee, the ISS Judiciary Panel, and in fact the whole society has a total membership of exactly one at the present time.
... eric - definitely a real person, although my wife may disagree

[Burnaby49]

I've been saying all along that psam, and psam alone, is the ISS. That is if you believe that there is actually an ISS as an entity apart from the echoes inside psam's head. He has a website and when I followed it way back in 2014 he'd go on and on about the ISS having a full slate of officials and how they voted him in as head every year. I assumed that vote was pretty much a show of hands in his bathroom mirror. As I recently noted in respect to psam's threatened suicide by maple syrup in 2014;

So, assuming he just didn’t pack up the idea because of a profound lack of interest by anyone, anywhere, one of two things must have happened;

1 - The number of participants in an interactive electoral system doubles – Neither of the organizations he claims use his electoral system actually exist. They’re nothing more than his little fantasies. There is no Interactive Party of Canada. The only results from a Google search are the suicide note I just quoted and this thread. The Interactive Sovereign Society exists as a fiction he set up in its own web page;

http://issociety.org/

It says he’s been relentlessly pumping out his gibberish since 2010! Happy 10th anniversary psam!

So all that psam needed to do to satisfy this requirement was make up two more imaginary entities that use his electoral system. Not exactly a high bar he’s set for himself. If he’s shown one skill it’s inventing fantasy organizations.

2 - The other is if a court of the Interactive Sovereign Society (click here for details) orders Me to cease my strike or cease planning my strike – Again, not a high hurdle for psam to overcome since the ISS, as I’ve pointed out above, is one of his imaginary organizations. So he could have just daydreamed a fantasy court order telling him he was too important to the future of Canada to contemplate suicide and, with great reluctance, have ended his not yet commenced hunger strike because of his profound respect for the ISS court. No doubt he’ll post a furious rebuttal to that last comment telling us how it’s a real fantasy organization with a real fantasy governance structure and a real fantasy court comprised of real fantasy people and that the ISS court could have chosen not to order him to cease his death by maple syrup. Must have been a real nail-biter waiting for a court order to come out. I’d suggest that any reader thinking that there is an actual International Sovereign Society do what I just did. Google it. You get, in total, a Facebook page created by psam, a Linkedin page created by psam, a few links to obscure websites that psam has salted with pdf files, and my comments here on quatloos.

Back then I thought he might have has a few acquaintances who'd allowed him to use their names to pad the roster of ISS government officials but now I doubt it. ISS is nothing more than psam's sad obsession, the way he's been driven to squander his adult life. That's why he's filling this discussion with his idiotic theories. He has nowhere else to go, nowhere else where he can be assured that somebody is giving him at least a cursory glance.

His Facebook page says he's got 637 friends but that means nothing. He gets very few responses to his postings. Not hard to see why. While he pretends here to be a knowledgeable, thoughtful student of systems of governing and an expert on the Canadian Constitution, all high-brow intellectual stuff, on his FB page he's a foul-mouthed moron;

Mich McConehead says he was hoping it would be a calico instead of a tabby to take a shit in his coffee, but now that the tabby's ass is poised over his mug, he's ready to appreciatively enjoy his first sip when it's done squeezing.

You know what I hate about a dead Liberal, a dead Green, a dead Conservative or a dead New Democrat?

They bury their corpses in the ground where you can't kick them.

It's too bad Harry Truman wasn't in excruciating agony when he died. That piece of shit deserved it.

Justin Trudeau, John Horgan, Erin O' Toole, Andrew Wilkinson, and Jagmeet Singh, I hope you all die of cancer you worthless fucking pieces of shit. Fuck you.

You can see why I warned him not to bring his FB comments here.

[JamesVincent]

My biggest issue with whine boy is his suicide shit. I've lost too many friends to suicide, some very personal to me, and seen too many combat vets survive Iraq and Afghanistan and come back to kill themselves in a world they can't understand. I had a good friend accidentally kill himself. Best we can figure out him and his girlfriend were arguing and he decided to do something to get her attention so he shot himself in the stomach. He accidentally hit his spine and became paralyzed so he couldn't get to a phone. He bled to death laying in his parent's living room when no one came home for hours. The absolute horror his family went through along with his girlfriend after that is indescribable. His younger brother, with whom I graduated high school and played guitar with, joined the Navy and left. My feelings on that subject are strong enough that if I heard someone do that in real life I'd probably offer to help you do it, right then and there. There are very few things in this world, to me, that are as disgusting and despicable as someone who threatens suicide if they don't get their way. And over some stupid shit like not getting your way in court? Fucking disgusting. You wanna know what not getting your way in court is like? There was a pretty prominent surgeon in the DC area a few years go through a divorce. Even though he was the sole money maker in the family, a doctor who had served for I believe 10 years or so at that point, a trauma surgeon, considerable accolades from the medical community, he lost all custody of his children since the court figured he was too busy to raise his children. Gave his cheating wife the house, thousands of dollars per month in child support, and gave him the absolute shaft. He went home after they denied his appeal and blew his brains out. That's losing in court.

I really could care less about all the drivel he posts. Anyone with half a brain can see right through it. My issue is with the obvious contempt he holds anyone who doesn't see things his way and his personal attitude that, for some reason, everyone should adjust their life to recognize his whackjob ideas. And if they don't recognize him then he's gonna kill himself. Like I've said before:

Less talk, more action.

[Pottapaug1938]

For the question to be answered in the affirmative, you would have to show that a certain right exists, under the Canadian Constitution and its body of laws, and that you and the ISS people are being denied that right.

Is there any evidence that "ISS people" other than Psam exist?

I am trying to be generous. I would imagine that the entire ISS could fit comfortably inside a minivan, with room to spare.

[Psam]

Well everybody seems to think it’s quite urgent that I take actions to get this case into court, so I’ve written another letter to send to the BC Attorney General and I intend to send it soon. I’m sorry if June 20 isn’t soon enough but sometimes patient planning is the sensible approach.

http://issociety.org/wp-content/uploads/Patty-Hajdu.pdf

Here are two of the most important paragraphs:

“Furthermore, if I do not hear back from you, then I intend to enter the Vancouver Police Department Headquarters at 2120 Cambie St. with one hundred dollars worth of a substance containing ‘[c]oca (Erythroxylum), [or] its preparations, derivatives, alkaloids and salts’, as described in section 2 of Schedule I of the Act, on June 20, 2021, to make a confession to possession of the substance and hand it over to be used as evidence in any prosecution taken against me. If prosecution is executed under the direction of the Crown, then I intend to use the constitutional defence described herein to petition, motion, or otherwise request that the Court stay the proceedings as a remedy to the impugned denial of rights described herein.” [page 6]

“The BC Constitutional Question Act states in section 1 that ‘[t]he Lieutenant Governor in Council may refer any matter to the Court of Appeal or to the Supreme Court for hearing and consideration, and the Court of Appeal or the Supreme Court must then hear and consider it.’ The BC Attorney General Act states in section 2(a) that ‘[t]he Attorney General is the official legal adviser of the Lieutenant Governor and the legal member of the Executive Council’. The matter could be decided definitively without me needing to walk into a situation where my liberty may be in peril.” [page 7]

[Burnaby49]

This is just getting overwhelmingly sad. I'd have said it was turning into a farce but it's always been that.

Sometime, at an unspecified future date, you'll maybe send a letter to the Attorney General of British Columbia telling him that, unless he kisses your ass, you'll, in six months or so, turn yourself into the police and confess to having illegal drugs? I can guess the Attorney General's response to that bombshell. "Maybe that will mean he'll finally stop sending all those idiotic letters."

Just more empty, meaningless posturing from you, another pathetic threat of no legal consequence. You sent a virtually identical letter to the Attorney General last June, six months ago, confessing to sex with a prostitute. How'd that work out? He ignored it and you did nothing.

Why would the Attorney General give a shit? You say you're going to turn yourself in to authorities and confess to a crime. Fine by the Attorney General, he's more than happy for criminals to voluntarily confess and demand that they be put on trial for their offenses. If you did I can guarantee there's something else he'd be more than happy about, your threat to use your idiotic Charter defenses at trial. It's like a day off for the prosecution to have to respond to fantasy law rather than real law. But, as I've said, it's just more pathetic posturing from you. He'll ignore the letter you are never going to send and you'll just dump the whole threat down the memory hole.

All that responses like this show is how desperate you are to try and hold on to something you never had, a valid world-view where you and your beliefs counted for anything.

[Pottapaug1938]

If Psam wasn't such a poseur, he'd file suit against the provincial and federal governments, charging them with violations of his (imaginary) rights as set forth in the ISS's written delusions, rather than sending idiotic letters asking to be prosecuted for this or that crime, thinking all the while that he can use such a prosecution as a vehicle for vindicating his delusions. Instead, he's like a drunk standing outside a bar, and boasting that he can beat up anyone inside -- but never actually going inside and issuing his challenge.

He's holding a 9-high poker hand, and betting and bluffing like he is holding four aces. He doesn't realize that his clever verbiage is going to be tossed into the legal trash bin, stricken as irrelevant, because the only issue at trial will be "did Psammy possess the drugs in question, and is the law prohibiting their possession still in force? If the answers are both yes, than Psammy gets a suite in the Graybar Hotel, unless the Crown doesn't feel like paying for his room and board.

[Burnaby49]

I left out a specific response to the stupidest part, although, given how the whole letter is gibberish, it's strictly subjective which part is the most idiotic. I'd vote for this;

The BC Constitutional Question Act states in section 1 that ‘[t]he Lieutenant Governor in Council may refer any matter to the Court of Appeal or to the Supreme Court for hearing and consideration, and the Court of Appeal or the Supreme Court must then hear and consider it.’ The BC Attorney General Act states in section 2(a) that ‘[t]he Attorney General is the official legal adviser of the Lieutenant Governor and the legal member of the Executive Council’. The matter could be decided definitively without me needing to walk into a situation where my liberty may be in peril.

First, there is no "matter" that requires being "decided definitively", there's just your endless babbling. The fact that you think your little obsession is of earth-shaking importance doesn't make it so to anyone else. You've found, after years of futile bleating, that nobody cares at all. Certainly the Attorney General has far more productive things to do than bother with your concerns.

That last sentence is just empty bluster, you have absolutely no intention of putting your liberty in peril. You're just posturing. And even if you carried through with your ultimatum why would the Attorney General care? if you want to walk in front of a bus or go and confess crimes to the police, that's your business and has nothing to do with the Attorney General's mandate. In fact, as I've already noted, if your martyrdom obsession compels you to, as you put it, put your liberty in peril, the Attorney General's office would probably be happy to have you start confessing to whatever crimes you pretend you've committed. But you've already considered and understood that. that's why you've given a six month deadline. When nothing happens you can sweep it under the rug since nobody's going to bother remembering any of this nonsense.

I know! Have another meeting of the ISS where they plead with you to change your mind because you're too important to the ISS and Canada to be allowed to sacrifice yourself. Then you can, with great reluctance, let yourself of the hook.

[TheNewSaint]

Well everybody seems to think it’s quite urgent that I take actions to get this case into court

I'm just confused why you don't think it's urgent.

[Pottapaug1938]

Easy. Psimple Psammy knows that, by filing suit now, alleging that his rights have been violated in ways which he has explained to us in exhausting detail, he could -- hypothetically -- have his rights vindicated, and proven to exist. In reality, he knows that any such lawsuit would be swiftly dismissed, because the courts have no legal justification for entertaining a complaint like his, let alone considering it at length; and if, by some miracle, his case made it to trial, he would be faced with the reality of a court decision stating, for all to read, that his fantasies have no basis in fact and law.

So, Psam knows that, like those who promote NESARA, the RV of the Iraqi dinar and Vietnamese dong, and the global currency reset, it's best to say that everything will happen "soon", so that he never has to actually try to have his rights vindicated.

[JamesVincent]

This is just getting overwhelmingly sad. I'd have said it was turning into a farce but it's always been that.

The word you were looking for is "pathetic".

[AnOwlCalledSage]

So, Psam knows that, like those who promote NESARA, the RV of the Iraqi dinar and Vietnamese dong, and the global currency reset...

I'm shocked that you have left out the Swissindo

[Psam]

Cough cough rights cough cough broadly and liberally cough cough

[Burnaby49]

Cough cough rights cough cough broadly and liberally cough cough

It's like talking to a donkey. In your fantasy world you've won because of Mills. Great. But in this world the "broadly" and "liberally" in Mills doesn't mean that Canada's courts have to acquiesce to any demented whims of self-obsessed narcissists. It's not an infinite rights provision. As a guideline Paraclete Belanger holds a very similar view. He believes that the Constitutional protection of religious rights means that Canadian courts have to allow him anything he wants as long as he says it's part of his religious beliefs. Unlike you his followers have actually worked up the courage to go to court and demand Charter accommodation for their idiot claims. They've all lost. It's all recorded here in Quatloos.

But hey, that's just my interpretation of Mills. Apparently, since your interpretation is the correct one, you don't have to go to court because in your fantasy world you've already won just by posting rubbish here and on your web page. There can't be any other reason for what otherwise seems like a cowardly refusal to take that final step.

[Pottapaug1938]

Cough cough rights cough cough broadly and liberally cough cough

It's like talking to a donkey. In your fantasy world you've won because of Mills. Great. But in this world the "broadly" and "liberally" in Mills doesn't mean that Canada's courts have to acquiesce to any demented whims of self-obsessed narcissists. It's not an infinite rights provision. As a guideline Paraclete Belanger holds a very similar view. He believes that the Constitutional protection of religious rights means that Canadian courts have to allow him anything he wants as long as he says it's part of his religious beliefs. Unlike you his followers have actually worked up the courage to go to court and demand Charter accommodation for their idiot claims. They've all lost. It's all recorded here in Quatloos.

But hey, that's just my interpretation of Mills. Apparently, since your interpretation is the correct one, you don't have to go to court because in your fantasy world you've already won just by posting rubbish here and on your web page. There can't be any other reason for what otherwise seems like a cowardly refusal to take that final step.

Psam reminds me of the idiots, down here, who think that because our Constitution enshrines a right to "petition the Government for a redress of grievances", every Psam-style crackpot thinks that they are entitled to waste the time of our legislators and our courts by treating their various idiocies as if they were serious propositions meriting a full and thorough discussion of their merits.

As far as I'm concerned, it's time for Psam to make his move in court, NOW, or shut up and leave us alone. He claims that he is about to hit a legal home run, with his ISS delusions; so Psammy -- the game is underway, and your name has just been announced. Step into the batter's box, or head for the dugout, take off your uniform, and leave the ballpark.

[grixit]

He doesn't have uniform, he's a ballpark streaker. But he chickened out and stayed hiding behind the bleachers.