Random Freemanesque Babblings II: Back to the Futile

[mufc1959]

I believe that automatic clawback has been tightened up because of abuse.

Indeed it has. It was tightened up in Feb 2016, I believe, and was a direct result of lobbying from the banks because of the massive amount of fraud we'd started seeing over the previous couple of years. All of us who've been around GOODF and other FOTL forums knew this was seen by the unscrupulous as a way to get free money.

[Penny Wise]

Wasn't sure where to post this but as Tobe is mentioned in this thread, seem appropriate

https://mol.im/a/9184807

Link is to a mail online story about Tobe Hayden Leigh and his attempt (whilst not wearing a mask) to remove a Mckenzie friend from hospital and claiming to be an Officer of the Court

[AnOwlCalledSage]

Whilst the muppet's role in this deserves sanction (he is acting illegally and should be prosecuted) if Freeman on the Land wish to remove themselves from society, as this patient indicated he wanted to, without a mental health evaluation it is still their right.

You can refuse treatment in the UK.

[longdog]

You can indeed refuse treatment but a doctor is perfectly within his rights to ensure that the refusal of consent is as informed as a granting of consent should be.

If that means having security throw out a rabble that are influencing the patient to make a very unwise decision then so be it.

[AnOwlCalledSage]

If that means having security throw out a rabble...

It is that I was referring to when I suggested that THL needs to be prosecuted for interfering in hospital business without legal authority... but the patient seems to have been influenced before then.

A patient's right to act according to his own stupidity is still allowed.

[longdog]

A patient's right to act according to his own stupidity is still allowed.

Absolutely. But as far as I can tell in this case the patient wasn't discharged and carried on with treatment once the rabble that was influencing him were ejected.

And then of course there's the fact that if somebody is oxygen deficient a doctor might well decide that they are incapable of giving informed consent and just treat them anyway. Even if it's sailing a bit close to the legal and ethical wind it's hard to see a complaint of "He saved my life when I was hypoxic" getting very far.

[John Uskglass]

Daily Mail comments showed a substantial number of people saying the patient should have been allowed to leave, and you can see why. It's superficially convincing that you should have personal autonomy, even if you're wrong, providing you don't harm others.

However, given that confusion is a covid symptom (and danger sign), only an extreme libertarian would argue that the 'of sound mind clause' didn't apply here, especially given that the patient was at death's door.

You can't help feeling that some of those commenting would have been just as comfortable slagging off the NHS if the patient had been allowed to effectively kill himself.

[exiledscouser]

You can't help feeling that some of those commenting would have been just as comfortable slagging off the NHS if the patient had been allowed to effectively kill himself.

And there's the nub of this. If you are inclined to comment on Daily Snail articles then you're already fairly polarised in your views, left or right. Here we have a confused old man, on oxygen, near (say the medical professionals) to death's door, possibly carrying a highly infectious disease with the team doing all they can to keep him alive.

Along come a few internet malcontents filming, not for ethics and the interests of the patient but for YT views for the entertainment of 500 or so followers and the promotion of their own sick agenda. They invade the treatment room in full foul-mouthed rant mode, waving their cameras about, causing anxiety and distress to everyone present, spouting a load of nonsense and are finally and quite rightly ejected.

What's been advanced? Some noble cause, an exposure of giant malpractice? No. Just an illustration of how keyboard-rattling no-marks sometimes translate conspiracy theories into actual life-threatening episodes filmed and designed to illicit 'outrage' and for self-promoting grandstanding. He 'demands' that current treatments be immediately stopped and their own quack treatments substituted, given Leigh's long experience and learned qualification as an "expertinallmedicalmatters" founded on a few interwebby videos.

As John observes, the very same idiots shouting at the desperate man on the bridge "Jump!" would just as easily shout with equal enthusiasm "the bastards let him jump!" were he to do so. It confuses and disappoints me that an idiot like THL gets a platform to fuel his desire for infamy - I hope the patient is recovering after all the excitement.

After the event a police inspector gives him a call inviting him for an interview "without coffee" (how DARE he), something he delights in recording and popping onto the internet but you can hear in Leigh's voice that he realises he might now be in the shit somewhat.



Plod repeatedly asks him where he is and where he works as they wish to 'speak' with him. All bristling indignation he refuses to disclose anything ("that's confidential information!")but you can see plod's purpose; if he refuses to come in for interview then they'll swoop, arrest and interview him on their terms, not his. "Put the questions in writing and I'll answer them within fourteen days" he disingenuously concludes.

[longdog]

Plod repeatedly asks him where he is and where he works as they wish to 'speak' with him. All bristling indignation he refuses to disclose anything ("that's confidential information!")but you can see plod's purpose; if he refuses to come in for interview then they'll swoop, arrest and interview him on their terms, not his. "Put the questions in writing and I'll answer them within fourteen days" he disingenuously concludes.

I skimmed through that video yesterday and he clearly doesn't understand what being invited in for questioning by the wallopers means.

He seems to think the alternative to making an appointment at a mutually convenient time is that they just forget about the whole thing and that's the end of it. The reality of course is that they arrest you when it's convenient for them and hold you in the cells until they question you at a time convenient to them.

You can of course refuse to be voluntarily interviewed under caution. But that refusal is probably going to have consequences you won't enjoy very much.

[John Uskglass]

Its transparently obvious that they're giving him enough rope, isn't it?

[hucknallred]

Let's not forget that THL was the man who had Anthony Badaloo as legal advisor on the blower as the HCEO was clearing out his house, including pet Parrot.

[AnOwlCalledSage]

I skimmed through that video yesterday and he clearly doesn't understand what being invited in for questioning by the wallopers means.

Now it all depends if he's been invited in for a completely voluntary interview (which is unusual as they will usually just ask face to face or over the phone) or a more formal Caution+2 or a Caution+3. However, none of these interviews can result in arrest.

Where he is being dumb is that if he doesn't "give his side" in a non-arrestable interview, is that the police will no doubt still be conducting enquiries and his next interaction will most likely be an actual arrest.

[hucknallred]

Like him or loathe him, but Piers Morgan has a huge Twitter following & has retweeted the THL video.
Not the publicity THL needs right now...

[HardyW]

I just heard the name of Tobe Hayden Leigh on BBC South East news.

The police have put out an appeal to contact a man from Maidstone after some people who weren't wearing masks went onto a critical care ward last week and were allegedly abusive to staff... They urgently want to speak to 45yo Tobe Hayden Leigh [picture on screen] in connection with this, he was in contact with a serious ill covid patient and he may have contacted covid himself and pose a public health risk."

[letissier14]

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-pol ... 9OmZLnd_R8

A man is being sought by police after a group of people abused hospital staff when they were stopped from removing a COVID-19 patient.

Officers have warned the public that Tobe Hayden Leigh might himself have coronavirus and that he poses a public health risk.

[Wakeman52]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/55825480

His profile is indeed rising. Hopefully, it will result in his detention soon.

[longdog]

Your wish is somebody else's command.... https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 ... pital-ward

[John Uskglass]

He's testing the maxim that 'any publicity is good publicity' to its limits, isn't he?

It'll be interesting to see if he manages to get any active support.

[hucknallred]

No shortage of people dobbing him in..

East Surrey DCI Kimball Edey said the force had received “hundreds of calls from members of the public with information as to his whereabouts”.

He added: “We would like to thank both them and the media for their help in tracking him down.

[AnOwlCalledSage]

A second man was also arrested on Thursday on suspicion of assisting an offender and is also in custody, said the force.

Anyone heard from Crabbie recently?