15% Global Minimum Corporate tax and tax evasion

[JamesVincent]

What we are talking about is the very basis of democracy and self government....that all people are treated equally.

But using the power of the majority to forcibly take money from the minority is better somehow? I think you nailed the real issue on the head though: perception. Articles are written not to inform but inflame. Like I said in the thread about the Pro Publica article someone, somewhere is considered a "whistleblower" for breaking the law to prove.... what? That the laws are being followed? That billionaires are paying what the law says they should pay? All the rhetoric boils down to exactly what Obs said: envy, jealousy and resentment. According to the last numbers I saw the top 1% of taxpayers paid more in personal income tax than the bottom 90% combined. Same numbers said that the top 1% paid, on average, 26.8% while the bottom 50% paid, on average, 4%. Would seem that the "fairness" is in the opposite direction of what people claim. Does not matter what you change the laws to be someone, somewhere, will complain that it's not fair.

[Pottapaug1938]

"According to the last numbers I saw the top 1% of taxpayers paid more in personal income tax than the bottom 90% combined. Same numbers said that the top 1% paid, on average, 26.8% while the bottom 50% paid, on average, 4%."

That still leaves the top 1% with LOTS more money than those on the bottom end of the scale. I cry no tears for billionaires.

[JamesVincent]

That still leaves the top 1% with LOTS more money than those on the bottom end of the scale. I cry no tears for billionaires.

Neither do I. But to say they don't pay their share based on singular and overblown examples is ridiculous. Same with corporations or personal. They pay quite a bit more than people who write these articles will admit.

[Duke2Earl]

I would not pop anyone's eyes. After everything I would do the rich would still be rich. At worst they might have delay buying their vacation chalet in the Alps for a year. All I am after is the very, very blatant stuff. The corporations that pay zero tax on huge earnings....the individuals that pay zero or minus tax on multi million earnings...and I'm not after all of it...just a reasonable share. And this CAN BE DONE...saying it is too complicated is just an evasion. And there is literally no argument that the current system is fair. As Warren Buffet has told us all repeatedly, there is no way to defend him paying less than his secretary...but yet here we have people defending it.

Life is about perceptions. People act on their perceptions. And the perception that billionaires are gaming the system and taking advantage of us all is pervasive. The French Revolution is just around the corner, folks. And if you don't see it coming....well, blinders are being handed out.

[JamesVincent]

Warren Buffet was full of shit the first time he said it and isn't any better now. He deliberately misstated what the actual, end of the year, totals were and instead quoted what the percentage of taxes taken from their respective paychecks. For whatever reason she had no deduction removed from her check and had a higher tax rate because of it. When it came to the end of the year she had no tax liability and got taxes back whereas Buffet ended up paying millions in additional tax and had a 20% or so tax rate. Which is consistent from everything that I've seen of his income. His secretary paid less than 10%.

That perspective is being driven by people with a grudge. If you wish to continue it that's up to you. At the end of the day we have one of the best personal tax systems in the world even if it is overly complicated. The current business tax system is better than it had been but still needs tweeking, not adding.

[jcolvin2]

Warren Buffet was full of shit the first time he said it and isn't any better now. He deliberately misstated what the actual, end of the year, totals were and instead quoted what the percentage of taxes taken from their respective paychecks. For whatever reason she had no deduction removed from her check and had a higher tax rate because of it. When it came to the end of the year she had no tax liability and got taxes back whereas Buffet ended up paying millions in additional tax and had a 20% or so tax rate. Which is consistent from everything that I've seen of his income. His secretary paid less than 10%.

That perspective is being driven by people with a grudge. If you wish to continue it that's up to you. At the end of the day we have one of the best personal tax systems in the world even if it is overly complicated. The current business tax system is better than it had been but still needs tweeking, not adding.

IIRC I think part of the issue is that Buffet was including employment taxes (employee share of FICA & Medicare) in the computation. Plus, I think it preceded the enactment of the NIIT, which raised taxes on investment income of the mass affluent and wealthy. (It also dates from before the 2017 tax changes significantly upped the standard deduction.)

[JamesVincent]

IIRC I think part of the issue is that Buffet was including employment taxes (employee share of FICA & Medicare) in the computation. Plus, I think it preceded the enactment of the NIIT, which raised taxes on investment income of the mass affluent and wealthy. (It also dates from before the 2017 tax changes significantly upped the standard deduction.)

All true. Thanks for that, I forgot that it had been changed.

[The Observer]

At this point, this thread has drifted into politics, where I feared it would go. We are now debating what "fair" really means and whether the wealthy are paying too much or not enough tax. When the comments start referencing the French revolution, whether Buffet was right or wrong, and the rest of the "fair/unfair" argument, that is the signal that we have gotten off the path and lost our way.

It's too bad that we can't stay on topic in observance of the rules here and keeping the website attractive to the people reading the threads for legal information and such. The thread is therefore locked.