noblepa wrote: ↑Sun Jan 08, 2023 6:38 pm
I think that the theory goes something like this: "When I took out the mortgage, I promised that the bank would be paid back. When they sold the mortgage, they were paid back, so the mortgage has been satisfied". As always, it displays a complete lack of understanding of how the law works, how accounting works or how the world works.
I think it's more stupid than that.
"I took out mortgage with X. X no longer holds the mortgage having sold the debt to Y. I now owe nothing."
It does gloss over centuries of jurisprudence, but it is at some level logical
Never attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by stupidity - Hanlon's Razor
Pottapaug1938 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 07, 2023 5:48 pmMassachusetts, along with some other states, is a "title theory" (as opposed to a "lien theory") state regarding mortgages. The grantor transfers legal title to the mortgagee, but has an "equitable title" to the value of any down payments or mortgage note repayments. The mortgagee's title reverts to the mortgagor, once the mortgage note is paid off. I suspect that the mortgage in question falls within the "lien theory" category.
Modern UK mortgages are almost certain to be a legal charge rather than an old school transfer of ownership. This current form came in with the LPA 1925, and I believe the old "mortgage by demise" is no longer even possible.
Aesmith is correct, a mortgage is just a loan, secured on property. If the debtor defaults, the lender can recover the debt by sale of the property: pawnbrokers do a similar thing on a smaller scale. The most common purpose of a mortgage is to obtain the funds to buy the same property, which is how they're linked in people's minds, but it needn't be. Traditionally, improvident or unlucky landowners used to obtain money by "mortgaging their estates to the hilt", estates which they hadn't bought, but inherited.
ArthurWankspittle wrote: ↑Sat Jan 07, 2023 10:11 amI think this goes back to the sub-prime issues in the US in 2008.
Right. As Arthur says, there was actually a huge scandal here over various abuses that mortgage servicers employed for en masse foreclosures. The best known of these was so-called "robosigning" - the all-but-automated signing of affidavits for summary judgments in foreclosures by people who claimed to have personal knowledge of prior dealings but actually had no idea. Some of the largest banks and servicers in the US were in it up to the gills. The DOJ and various state AGs reached huge (largest was $25B) settlements with the miscreants, and LOTS of foreclosures were vacated.
None of that, of course, means that your bank transferring your mortgage gets you a free house.
"A wise man proportions belief to the evidence."
- David Hume
wserra wrote: ↑Mon Jan 09, 2023 7:49 pm
As Arthur says, there was actually a huge scandal here over various abuses that mortgage servicers employed for en masse foreclosures.
...
None of that, of course, means that your bank transferring your mortgage gets you a free house.
I think it's indisputable that some UK banks have previously had some questionable practices. Our mortgage/pension mis-selling did not occur in a vacuum. I benefited greatly from the pension scandal
The problem for those trying to get a free house out if it is equitability! You borrow the money. You have to pay it back.
Never attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by stupidity - Hanlon's Razor
AnOwlCalledSage wrote: ↑Mon Jan 09, 2023 8:15 pm
The problem for those trying to get a free house out if it is equitability! You borrow the money. You have to pay it back.
Hence the claim that they never borrowed it and even if they did was either their own money or not money at all... Or both.
JULIAN: I recommend we try Per verulium ad camphorum actus injuria linctus est.
SANDY: That's your actual Latin.
HORNE: What does it mean?
JULIAN: I dunno - I got it off a bottle of horse rub, but it sounds good, doesn't it?
“Networks built over the pandemic have not gone away. We are still seeing so-called ‘sovereign citizens’ seeking to shut down vaccination clinics with pseudo-legal arguments and accusations of crimes against humanity. But we’re also seeing people who came to prominence during the pandemic moving on to different issues, taking their audiences with them.”
The “sovereign citizens” movement – based on bogus beliefs that politicians, civil servants and doctors could be brought before “common law courts” – has appeared to melt away or split, after briefly making headlines as former military veterans ran “training” sessions.
Rows over money have been rife for one group formed by an ex-soldier, Guardians300, which is among those opposing the government, though from a more libertarian than far-right perspective. It claimed last year to have been running classes around the country at up to £20 a person to train “an army of common law constables”.
Before it disappeared, its website claimed 2,565 people had been “trained”, but since then it and the connected social media channels have gone silent.
One conspiracy theorist in the south-west accused the group’s founder of plagiarising his own “common law” training manuals and turning it into a money-making enterprise. Rather than seeking actual legal redress, however, he and others have instead turned to a bogus Common Law Courts which have issued “summons”.
The group’s founder did not respond to requests for comment, but said in a Facebook video that he was the co-owner of the “intellectual property” of any material used in the “training”. He said that any money paid was used to cover costs and he had “no need” to turn the group into a business.
If you read to the end of the article you find this:
There was censorship on Facebook of some of the anti-lockdown protest, and a lot of the activists went to Telegram. That was a major mistake because the far right had been embedded for years. So we all walked into the trap, basically. They were ready to devour any naive people. They’ve been doing ever since.”
This... "Rows over money have been rife" seems to be what leads to this... "But we’re also seeing people who came to prominence during the pandemic moving on to different issues, taking their audiences with them" as far as I can tell.
There's only a limited amount of grift to go round and when the market for one version of the grift becomes saturated, or just no longer fashionable, they try to move on to a new one or recycled version of an old one.
I've long been following Mark "shot a teenage girl in the face" Steele the very, very weapons expert who has seen his anti-5G grift dry up pretty much completely. SATGITF isn't very bright and it's amusing to watch him try to reinvent himself as a different form of scampaigner. I've lost track of him a bit recently but last time I checked he was trying to revive the Satanic Panic (or should that be Satnic Pnic?) nonsense. I don't think it's going well but his grasp of Christianity is about as sound as his grasp of physics so there is at least some entertainment in it. And it's a bit too soon to breathe life back into that if you ask me.
JULIAN: I recommend we try Per verulium ad camphorum actus injuria linctus est.
SANDY: That's your actual Latin.
HORNE: What does it mean?
JULIAN: I dunno - I got it off a bottle of horse rub, but it sounds good, doesn't it?
One conspiracy theorist in the south-west accused the group’s founder of plagiarising his own “common law” training manuals and turning it into a money-making enterprise. Rather than seeking actual legal redress, however, he and others have instead turned to a bogus Common Law Courts which have issued “summons”.
I wonder if that refers to Hannah Jackson's mates in the Community Assembly?
The CA's 'Community Peace Service' page invites you to follow a link to enrol for Peace Keeper training.
https://peacekeepers.org.uk/
I'm a bit confused as to whether Danielle DeLioness and Sheriff Hannah are the same person but I seem to recall it was a DeLioness of some description that was one party in the great You plagiarised my gibberish drama.
I was hoping the case would go to a real court for the entertainment value of them squabbling over who owned the rights to pseudo-legal twaddle that both parties had, when it came down to it, copied from other random internet nutters.
I still live in hope that one day a court transcript will be published where the judge actually loses it and says "Get the f**k out of my court. Both of you. Go on... F**k off to f**k off mountain on your f**k off horses you f**king time wasting bunch of f**king c****!".
You can tell they are thinking it sometimes
JULIAN: I recommend we try Per verulium ad camphorum actus injuria linctus est.
SANDY: That's your actual Latin.
HORNE: What does it mean?
JULIAN: I dunno - I got it off a bottle of horse rub, but it sounds good, doesn't it?
longdog wrote: ↑Thu Jan 12, 2023 2:09 pm
I'm a bit confused as to whether Danielle DeLioness and Sheriff Hannah are the same person
No they aren't the same. I started a thread on Davidson/DeLioness. She is a student of the David Robinson PLD nonsense and was present at the famous Glastonbury Town Hall seizure sitting around talking a lot until kicked out by the caretaker event.
She isn't nuts like Hannah and is just a straight grifter now. She travels the country 'canvassing' with her boyfriend.
She only seems to canvass in nice tourist spots though.
The grift is just trying to sell Common Law Assent merch. Like a few sheets of A4 paper and a CLA biro for 18 quid, branded as an 'Oath pack.'
I am indebted to m'learned friend. I know who you mean now. It was the £18 oath packs that jogged my memory.
She's the one who blocked me when I called her grifter and asked her by what authority I was compelled, as she claims in her sales blurb, to 'take the oath' and what would happen if I refused to consent to that authority.
I very much doubt she sold more than a slack handful of her 'packs'. She's missed the boat on that one by a good few years.
JULIAN: I recommend we try Per verulium ad camphorum actus injuria linctus est.
SANDY: That's your actual Latin.
HORNE: What does it mean?
JULIAN: I dunno - I got it off a bottle of horse rub, but it sounds good, doesn't it?
It was bound to happen sooner or later. Traffic Cops (Channel 5) on Monday had its first Freeman On The Land stop
He had a driving licence. Fined £80 for not having car tax
Dealt with in a matter of fact, not to say world weary way. I found it amusing that he had to exercise the "phone a friend option" throughout in order to try and get his "lines" right. No doubt that section of the programme will be pored over and commented upon in minute detail by the believers and we shall be able to find out where he went wrong
If he had only used the correct form of words, the police would of course have backed down.
TheRambler wrote: ↑Wed Jan 25, 2023 8:57 pm
If he had only used the correct form of words, the police would of course have backed down.
TheRambler
Did he accidentally create joinder?
JULIAN: I recommend we try Per verulium ad camphorum actus injuria linctus est.
SANDY: That's your actual Latin.
HORNE: What does it mean?
JULIAN: I dunno - I got it off a bottle of horse rub, but it sounds good, doesn't it?
TheRambler wrote: ↑Wed Jan 25, 2023 8:57 pm
If he had only used the correct form of words, the police would of course have backed down.
TheRambler
Did he accidentally create joinder?
He will have been thoroughly debriefed by his “friend” on the errors he made. The law will also have been thoroughly explained reasons reasons that they can’t make him pay for the return of his car personal conveyance. All he has to do is send this letter (handwritten & wet ink signature) and it will be delivered to him pulled by pink unicorns.
TheRambler
I have been looking around a few FMOTL haunts hoping to find comment on the “incident”. So far there doesn’t seem to have been any reaction.
