Liberty Dollar Fights Back

[Trippy]

Did Nuthouse claim that the FBI had auctioned off the seized items?

He didn't say they'd auctioned anything -- just that they were about to do so.

Friday, December 14, 2007

Dear Liberty Dollar Supporters:

Dark Moment for Liberty Dollar

I am shocked to inform you that we have learned that the FBI is moving aggressively to forfeit "their" seizure for auction immediately!

If that does not shock and alarm you, you are truly asleep! If there has ever been a time to support the Liberty Dollar with an Arrest Dollar and a donation… it is now!

And now he claims a lawyer is working on stopping the auction? Convenient. And a clever marketing scheme, to say the least. People panicked and sent him all that cash and silver ....

[webhick]

Amir Hirsch is closing out the last Ron Paul Chocolate Dollars for Valentine's Day. Please order from http://ronpaulchocolate.com before Saturday and they should arrive by Thursday the 14th.

Now, you too can nibble on Ron Paul's head and feast on his chocolaty goodness! Act now!

[webhick]

von NotHaus is one long winded broken record.

January 30. 2008

Tis a Wednesday! Feel my wrath!

FLASH:

AGH! NAKED VON NOTHAUS! MY EYES!

I am pleased to announce that we are in discussions with a noted attorney in Boise, Idaho to secure the return of the material seized by the FBI

I do believe I've heard of this "noted" attorney. Wasn't he "noted" in Boise's police log for wanton corruption of an underage gummy bear? His retainer probably consists of a lifetime supply of tin foil hats and Red Bull.

We will announce this development asap.

Dude, you just did. Don't you remember? Look back at the first paragraph. No, no, go ahead. I can wait. Do we need to set up some kind of raffle where all the proceeds go to refunding the customers that you aren't even trying to make amends with and the winner gets to smack the stupid out of you?

If you have any paper certificates or digital Liberty Dollars you were damaged.

Mentally.

The new 2008 Silver Liberty Dollar with a face value of $20 is HOT!!!

For the love of all that is good and right in this world, don't be Paris Hilton. ::SMACK::

the market is hot for Liberty Dollars.

I need you Libby, I need you bad. Let's run away to Kentucky and make lots of little Libbies.

I never wished for the Raid, but we are certainly making lemonade out of that lemon!

Pity that the customers who placed orders just prior to the raid can't say the same thing.

In fact, many people are making a lot more than lemons or peanuts on eBay with the Liberty Dollar.

Theoretically, Michael Jackson's toenail clippings would make a lot more than the Liberty Dollar on eBay. And he never got his toenail clippings raided.

PRICING: As silver is over $16 per ounce and we are quickly advancing into the 45 day slot to Move Up to the $50 Silver Base, the one ounce $20 Liberty Dollar is currently Spot + $5.

Meanwhile, the Quibby remains rock solid at 1/20th of a genetically death-proof llama. Which is exactly the kind of thing people are looking for in an inflation proof alternative currency. Not fluctuating prices.

the cost to become a Liberty Associate at the $50 base will be $500!

Great! I've always wanted to pay $500 for something that used to cost $250! Reminds me of inflation!

Announcing the 2008 Arrest Dollar.

You already did this a while back. ::SMACK:: Do try to keep up.

Thank you for your interest and orders for the specially hallmarked Arrest Dollar on previously issued Liberty Dollars. As that material is now exhausted the price has risen from $30 to $40 and will probably be $50 soon.

Precisely how do you justify charging $30-50 to make modifications to a product with a face value of $20 when you sold them the product to begin with and the modifications do not add any value? Is it okay for a $20 product to cost someone $50-70?

I still need to raise money for our legal expenses

You are raising money for the legal expenses. What you aren't doing is raising money to issue refunds or fill orders for people who got jilted by the raid.

I am pleased to announce the 2008 Arrest Dollar - a new 2008 Liberty Dollar with the famous "Handcuff" hallmark is now available at the introductory price of $30 each.

Introductory? You mean you're going to sell $20 for more than $30 at some point?

This offer is for a limited time… limited until I am arrested…

At which point everyone who placed an order not yet filled is screwed out of their money. Again. Or, are you going to up the price?

Please order now at only $30 each and help support our legal defense fund.

It's one thing for a charity to overcharge for a product to help support their cause, it's another thing for a for-profit organization to do it. Stop forcing people to contribute to your legal defense fund.

So what is a regular Brilliant Uncirculated 2008 Silver Liberty Dollar worth?
Would you believe $41.00?!

Hehehe...$41...

Just ask Dave Gillie because that is what he got on eBay!

Don't have to. Looked at his store.

But you don't have to pay $40 bucks for a $20 Silver Liberty Dollar!

Yeah, looking at those auctions, you can pay a little over $20 for it.

Order direct from the National Fulfillment office for only $5 over spot. Spot is published and updated hourly on the Liberty Dollar home page at http://www.LibertyDollar.org.

Currently $17.23 + $5 = $22.83 per $20 Libby. When you use it as currency, you instantly lose $2.83.

To PayPal's credit, they finally returned all funds for Liberty Dollars ordered on our shopping cart using PayPal… except for the eight people who filed a dispute.

So, Paypal gave you back a bunch of money. Were these perchance for the orders prior to the raid?

So, with higher metal prices, is this the worst time to get Liberty Dollars?

YES!! Since you're either going to stop producing or jack up the prices if you get arrested.

NO!!!

Damn. I was so close that time!

The Liberty Dollar "brand" has broken out

Oh no! It's out! It's coming for us! Evacuate! I warned you! I told you that we couldn't contain it!

of the "currency" mode and become "bullion" with a Mission… to return our country to value… the same values established by our Founding Fathers… the same values that Ron Paul campaigns on… the same value that made America great… and hand you a fortune!

So...now it's not currency...it's bullion. Good one. Try passing it off as bullion and see how everyone likes it.

And there's something inherently wrong with saying that you're going to help bring the country back to greatness and make a fortune in the process. Sounds like something an evil genius would say to get people to follow him.

Doesn't it just make sense that when the underlying commodity that backs the currency increases in value, shouldn't the purchasing power of that currency also increase in value?

Doesn't it also make sense that when the underlying commodity that backs the currency decreases in value, shouldn't the purchasing power of that currency also decrease in value?

And isn't that the essence of an inflation proof currency?

Quite the opposite. Inflation proof currency, like the Quibby, doesn't move up or down.

Have you ever wished you had lived during the American Revolutionary War?

Yes, I dream about living in a time where I can't vote, people own slaves, there's no indoor plumbing, central heat or A/C, and more people died from disease and exposure than the war. ::SMACK::

But if you ever yearned to be a part of American history…

Or named on an indictment.

Opening a Regional Currency Office (RCO) and actively distributing the Liberty Dollar. Currently, 15 brave men have taken the stand to have their own Hallmark made and are actively distributing the Liberty Dollar.

This is my favorite part and I kind of hope that I'm wrong about these numbers. It costs $1000 annually to be an RCO. Additionally, according to the Rate Quotes the minimum order is 1000 ounces and the overhead charge is $3/oz. So, with today's spot rate of $17.23/oz, that's a cost of $20.23 per ounce. The minimum order would be $20,230.00. Now, 15 "brave" men have done this, let's say at the $15 spot. von NotHaus raked in $285k for those of you playing the home game. I'd kill to see the profit margin.

Now, let's say I sign up as an RCO with the spot at $15. $16,000 out of pocket. Although I don't think there's a set retail price, let's say as I base my pricing structure on spot + 6 (doubling the overhead fee I paid). So, I'm charging $6 + spot. And, in my little world, the spot has gone up a buck since I purchased them. So, now I'm selling my own little Libbies for $22. I paid $18. $4/oz profit. If I sell all of them, within a year, that's $4000 in my pocket, minus the $1000 annual RCO fee, and I've made a whopping profit of $3000. Ick. I wonder how much $16,000 would earn over the course of a year with smart investing.

Click HERE to see the Original 15 Hallmarks by the brave men who have chosen to stand for value at this dark moment of the Liberty Dollar.

I'll admit that it's quite brave of someone to give $16000+ to someone who might just be arrested tomorrow and never fulfill the order and issue no refunds.

As I have said before, my number one job is getting your money back and filling your order.

No, your number one job is getting money into your legal defense fund. If you made getting their money back a priority, then you'd be setting up a separate fund for refunds and order fulfillment.

Here is an unsolicited, typical inquiry and response by Dave Gillie who operates a RCO in Michigan:
QUESTION: Why would you support an organization (LIBERTY DOLLAR) that steals from the so called people it wants to help? My reason, I purchased from them (LIBERTY DOLLAR) and they have not delivered my order, refuse to contact me, return my calls or e-mails, and are now they (LIBERTY DOLLAR) wants to sell me and everyone else more, give me a break.
RESPONSE: IN CASE you really want an answer, here it is:
I agree that Liberty Dollar is responsible for delivering what they were paid for (or refund). I strongly *disagree* that when a FORCE completely outside of their control forcibly and illegally interferes with their business that it constitutes "stealing" in ANY way.

It certainly constitutes stealing in my eyes. When a retailer gets robbed, people still expect to receive what they paid for. It's the retailer's problem as to how that happens and most customers would understand the delay under the circumstances. But von NotHaus has chosen to beg for donations for his legal fund that he will attempt to use to get the money back and he will dip into in case he gets arrested. Why he doesn't start just announce that some of the funds will be earmarked to give refunds or fulfill those orders? Why?

I DO support LD in their effort to get their and yours and MY STUFF back.

So you're giving him more money to get back money you already gave him?

I'm not so naive to think that they are a magic turnip that can possibly replace the material now that their product AND money was all been seized.
Remembering the SERENITY PRAYER, there ARE some things they can do (hence the legal defense fund) and some things that are absolutely impossible (fill orders and/or refund them at this time).

Wrong. It's not impossible to fill orders and issue refunds. He set up a legal defense fund, he can set up a replacement fund.

The contact problem is understandable IMO, but I agree that they should at least post more info on their website. Note, there IS a TON there now. So all their past and current customers really should know what's going on.

So, is there not enough info on the site, or is there a ton?

However, ya gotta keep in mind that they are NOT using money that should be refunded

Duh. It was raided.

In fact, a fraud WOULD occur if they took donations for legal fund and used it for other purposes, like refund past customers, as you seem to want.

Not if those past customers get together and sue. After all, NORFED's site and the LD site both say "The opportunity for the government to seize the gold/silver at Sunshine "before or after" any purchase is very small due to the quick turn-around time on all orders." So why all the unfulfilled orders, huh?

Please order a 2008 Silver Liberty Dollar online today. We have no idea when an indictment will be issued and the Liberty Dollar will be silenced.

Yes order today, because we could be silence before we fulfill your order. ::SMACK::

[Imalawman]

Great analysis of his article webhick!!

[Burzmali]

About the 15 RCOs, I doubt that more than a few of them are doing this for a profit. If I were running a business that wrapped itself in the American flag (Patriots Jeep Dealership, or Ben Franklin Plumbing) it might be worth investing that $16,000 as an advertising method. Slap a reasonable looking hallmark on the coins and hand out to each customer instead of a business card after a successful sale to try to win future business. It actually seems mild compared to some of the advertising schemes out there.

[Nikki]

Courtesy of The Great One

President of NORFED-Liberty Dollar
Bernard von NotHaus
will be in Asheville Saturday and Sunday Feburary 23 & 24.
He will speak to the Patriots on Saturday.
Press conference also at downtown location.

Time: Sat Feb. 23, 1:00 - 3:00 pm.

Location: Ryan's SH at Biltmore Square Mall, (1000 Brevard Rd , Asheville , NC )

New developments in my case--all good.

Contacts: Robert Clarkson 864-225-3061; Kevin Innes 828-582-7637

[Joey Smith]

Location: Ryan's SH at Biltmore Square Mall

They will be missing a side of beef after Clarkson passes through . . .

[.]

He will speak to the Patriots

Can the rest of the NFL be far behind?

VonNutball can then move on to MLB, the NHL and the NBA. Go for the deep pockets, forget the nickel and dime TP crowd.

[webhick]

Press conference also at downtown location.

As the rising sun struggles to peek over the overpass and cast its morning light over the golden arches, the hobo press pools together their liberty dollars to order their McMuffins and anxiously wait for St. von NotHaus to address them while they burn his pamphlets in nearby barrels.

[Imalawman]

Press conference also at downtown location.

As the rising sun struggles to peek over the overpass and cast its morning light over the golden arches, the hobo press pools together their liberty dollars to order their McMuffins and anxiously wait for St. von NotHaus to address them while they burn his pamphlets in nearby barrels.

You must have never been to Asheville, NC. More likely... As the rising sun struggles to rise above the Blue Ridge Mountains, middle aged hippies are using the pamphlets to roll their morning joints as they head for work...or not. While soccer moms look on with a disinterested curiosity that the motivated lament and only the listless possess. The Mellow Mushroom employees are dropping acid behind the garbage dumpster, staring transfixed at Robert Clarkson who appears to them to be a giant, purple goomba. Meanwhile, a bus load of school age kids ride by on their way to yet another field trip to the Biltmore House.

That said, I love that town....

[webhick]

You must have never been to Asheville, NC. More likely... As the rising sun struggles to rise above the Blue Ridge Mountains, middle aged hippies are using the pamphlets to roll their morning joints as they head for work...or not. While soccer moms look on with a disinterested curiosity that the motivated lament and only the listless possess. The Mellow Mushroom employees are dropping acid behind the garbage dumpster, staring transfixed at Robert Clarkson who appears to them to be a giant, purple goomba. Meanwhile, a bus load of school age kids ride by on their way to yet another field trip to the Biltmore House.



That said, I love that town....

Awesome! Sounds like a fantastic vacation spot!

[silversopp]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but in the near future, it's going to cost me $50 to get $16 worth of silver in the form of Liberty Dollars? And his supporters havent' been able to figure out that it's a scam yet?

If I were running this scam, i'd just remove the $ and the word "currency" and make a killing.

[Evil Squirrel Overlord]

You now somewhere in the dark recesses of my soul, I kinda admire Von NutHouse for having the audacity to carry this scam out so far. If someone could get me a sample of his brain tissue....

[LDE]

The big contradiction in the Liberty Dollar scam is that it can't both be a "store of value" and adjust its price when silver becomes more expensive in U.S. dollars.

[notorial dissent]

There you go, coming up with the logical contradictions, that ruin all their carefully laid out blather. Just confuses the marks and makes them sure they have found something only they know about.

[webhick]

There you go, coming up with the logical contradictions, that ruin all their carefully laid out blather. Just confuses the marks and makes them sure they have found something only they know about.

It's okay. They'll just tell themselves that what they just heard was part of the grand conspiracy to undermine the power of the Liberty Dollar and keep the status quo. That's the real secret to a good scam: getting your marks to turn their brains off.

BTW, there's a manual way to flip the switch...if you're willing to stick the cotton swab in far enough.

[notorial dissent]

Actually, I think the real trick here is that you troll for the ones who are only using them for hat racks to begin with, cuts down on the work need to part the fool from their money, and save on overhead.

[Truthstalker]

The smart way to own silver is to buy 1oz. silver rounds or bars from your local coin dealers and not pay more than 2% over spot.

BTW, God told me that silver will hit $200/oz in the next few years, so buy it with both hands.

[.]

The smart way to own silver is to buy 1oz. silver rounds or bars from your local coin dealers and not pay more than 2% over spot.

2%?

I pay $2.40 to buy or sell about $85,000 worth of silver. I do it often. That's about .003%. If I paid 2%, it would cost me about $1,700 a crack.

2% is nuts. Not smart at all.

If I want to take delivery of my shiny silver bars, it'll cost me a couple of hundred bucks per 5,000 ounces. Then I can bury it in my backyard and have $1,500 per 5,000 ounces left over to buy ammo.

But, I never take delivery because I'm not a nut, just a trader.

[Truthstalker]

The smart way to own silver is to buy 1oz. silver rounds or bars from your local coin dealers and not pay more than 2% over spot.

2%?

I pay $2.40 to buy or sell about $85,000 worth of silver. I do it often. That's about .003%. If I paid 2%, it would cost me about $1,700 a crack.

2% is nuts. Not smart at all.

If I want to take delivery of my shiny silver bars, it'll cost me a couple of hundred bucks per 5,000 ounces. Then I can bury it in my backyard and have $1,500 per 5,000 ounces left over to buy ammo.

But, I never take delivery because I'm not a nut, just a trader.

Duh. You know I'm not talking about trading in silver. I'm talking about how the average schmuck can actually possess silver for possible use as money if the sh*t hits the fan. I also said not more that 2%. I've never paid more than .75% which is reasonable. But since you're so shrewd tell me where I can buy one 1oz coin for about a nickel over spot.