New from Lost Heads

[jkeeb]

I apologize if this lengthy posting violates any rules.

Does anyone have experience with or know someone who has been through the seizure process? Not much information is contained in the Archives. I am presently reviewing the IRM to gain a better understanding, and would like to know how quickly the process works, whether my family would immediately be removed from the premises, whether our personal affects and household furnishings can be seized, as well as what has successfully worked in the past to stop this action.

As background:
My husband and I were Schiff-zero return filers from 1998 through 2003 and non-filers from 2004 through 2006. Since September 2005, the IRS levied approximately $39,000 of my income (forcing me to quit my job, sell our home and move to a different state), levied approximately $230 from our bank account, placed liens on our new home, and placed two continuing levies, totaling approximately $4,000 to date, on my federal retirement pension.

In October 2007, four IRS Agents (two from CID wearing Kevlar vests and carrying firearms) and one deputy sheriff trespassed on our property (“No Trespassing” signs were clearly posted at the entrance to our driveway) to advise us that “the next step would be seizure”. Several weeks ago, the IRS stated they would begin seizure proceedings if they did not receive tax returns from us by February 26th. We will be meeting this deadline and will be submitting 4852s for our non-federally-connected income. Despite having what appears to be some federally-connected income, we expect our returns to reflect credits or refunds, especially since so much money has been levied.

Because of our history as zero-filers and non-filers, we believe we have been “tagged” and suspect that each of our returns will be classified as “frivolous.” We hope to prevent them from automatically identifying our returns as frivolous by challenging any such classification in our transmittal letter to the IRS. We also intend to file a Pro Se Petition to Show Cause for all of the liens and levies. [That's gonnal work!] We are complete novices, so if anyone is willing to share an example or work closely with us in this daunting process, please email me at: charcrawford2991@msn.com.


Our Immediate Concern:
We are afraid that once the IRS receives our returns, they will commence seizure proceedings, forcibly remove us from our home and take our cars and possessions. We are especially concerned because of the current financial condition caused by the IRS’ actions. We have been unable to find gainful employment in what has become an economically depressed area and our savings is now depleted. My heavily levied pension is our sole income and covers food, but not much more. Forget about paying for utilities and the mortgage. We are understandably stressed out and fearful of what will happen to us, especially our 16-year old son.

Thank you for any help you can offer.

This guy has hit rock bottom and has brought out the pick-ax and dynamite to continue digging.[/i]

[jg]

My heavily levied pension is our sole income and covers food, but not much more. Forget about paying for utilities and the mortgage.

That appears to describe an individual that could be "currently not collectible" and perhaps eligible for staying the levy due to creating a significant economic hardship for the taxpayer.

So, not only is this individual digging further in; but he is also ignoring the rope that is the way out of this hole (or at least the brace needed so the hole does not collapse upon him).

Sometimes watching a train wreck is more sad than entertaining.

[webhick]

So, not only is this individual digging further in; but he is also ignoring the rope that is the way out of this hole (or at least the brace needed so the hole does not collapse upon him).

He's only ignoring the rope because it's not exactly the kind of rope he wants to use. He wants the shiny golden rope of greed and instead he's being shown the cold, hard, steel rope of reality.

Sometimes watching a train wreck is more sad than entertaining.

Especially since there's a teenager stuck in a terrible situation that is not of his own doing.

[LPC]

I apologize if this lengthy posting violates any rules.

Just the rules of logic, common sense, and self-preservation.

My husband and I were Schiff-zero return filers from 1998 through 2003 and non-filers from 2004 through 2006. [...] Several weeks ago, the IRS stated they would begin seizure proceedings if they did not receive tax returns from us by February 26th. We will be meeting this deadline and will be submitting 4852s for our non-federally-connected income.

Great. Out of the frying pan and into the skillet, as one relative used to say.

Because of our history as zero-filers and non-filers, we believe we have been “tagged” and suspect that each of our returns will be classified as “frivolous.” We hope to prevent them from automatically identifying our returns as frivolous by challenging any such classification in our transmittal letter to the IRS.

I'm sure that will work.

[.]

That's one of the most pathetic and pitiful things I've ever read.

I'm generally against empowering government with regard to policing the details of parenting, but perhaps there's some merit in severe sanctions against total morons like this dumb cluck and her at least equally dumb husband who have put their child into this position.

Maybe the potential loss of custody of children would make these morons think twice before walking off the cliff. Financial hardship and potential prison time don't seem to get the job done.

[Judge Roy Bean]

Am I still the only one who is wondering why someone was able to go this far this long before having a wake-up call that would have introduced them into harsh reality before it became a complete disaster?

This is becoming all too familiar. One might even say Snipes was apparently toyed with for years as well.

I hate to say it, but letting known perpetrators dig deeper and deeper does not reflect well on the concept of justice. The cynic would legitimately ask why there is a tendency to allow the ignorant and foolish to pile up potential penalties.

[webhick]

Am I still the only one who is wondering why someone was able to go this far this long before having a wake-up call that would have introduced them into harsh reality before it became a complete disaster?

I think part of the problem is that the system just isn't catching them fast enough so they think they're winning and when the system finally catches up, no amount of letters, threats of levies, or actual levies can get them to stop.

And even if the system could catch them superfast...it still wouldn't stop them. Look at these people. With all they've been through, they have still not woken up to the harsh reality. They may never wake up.

[The Observer]

I hate to say it, but letting known perpetrators dig deeper and deeper does not reflect well on the concept of justice. The cynic would legitimately ask why there is a tendency to allow the ignorant and foolish to pile up potential penalties.

We can thank the laws, regs and the various policies set up that let taxpayers take a number of bites at the apple in contesting the procedure of taxes being assessed and collected. A really clever person can stall and delay the inevitable for several years. By that time, the increase in accrued penalties and interest make the bill so gigantic that it usually boils down to having to seize real property and retirement monies.

And the IRS is required by law to inform people like the above exactly how to delay (legally) by filing CDPs and appeals.

[gottago]

It would appear that the **dingleberry** in question would avoid a lot of grief (not to mention homelessness) by just filing the returns (in a non frivolous manner) and getting the levy stopped if there is a true economic hardship and they can not afford basic living expenses.

[webhick]

It would appear that the **dingleberry** in question would avoid a lot of grief (not to mention homelessness) by just filing the returns (in a non frivolous manner) and getting the levy stopped if there is a true economic hardship and they can not afford basic living expenses.

Damn straight. Also, if their pension is really only covering food, then they probably aren't paying their mortgage. If they don't actually make moves to resolve their problems, I wonder which will happen first: the IRS seizes, or the mortgage company forecloses.

[Agent Observer]

JRB wrote:

I hate to say it, but letting known perpetrators dig deeper and deeper does not reflect well on the concept of justice. The cynic would legitimately ask why there is a tendency to allow the ignorant and foolish to pile up potential penalties.

Wait a minute. Are you serious? We are a free society, which means the individual is accountable for his/her actions. If they want to be willfully ignorant to the point of personal financial destruction, that's their right in a free society. To do what you're suggesting calls for a bigger, more intrusive government, who will then legislate our personal choices away because they believe we are too stupid to do so ourselves. A perfect example of this is the new legislation craze in California to make people eat healthier by outlawing certain types of trans-fatty foods. There's supposedly some federal push along the same lines. Maybe having the government legislate against Big Macs is ok with you, but I think it's a bit much. Besides that, the IRS isn’t big enough to assign a full-time baby sitter to morons. It's ironic that some of your recent posts show you inherently distrust the IRS, yet in this one, you advocate expanding their enforcement apparatus and intrusive involvement with individual taxpayers.

The bottom line is that we as a society have moved away from personal accountability. No one wants to accept responsibility for their actions. Instead, we come up with all sorts of excuses in the form of a blame game, fix-it-all-pills, and custom-manufactured psychological disorders to fit whatever the situation might be. The government isn't a baby sitter, nor should it be.

[Demosthenes]

One might even say Snipes was apparently toyed with for years as well.

How you figure?

[iplawyer]

But look at this from LH:

I was doing a little due diligence on one of the banks I use. My mother had informed me years ago that she liked doing business with this particular bank because it was "local" and they took care of her well. I had assumed that it was a state bank and was considering the validity of rebutting the presumption that a non-federally connected bank could generate "federal income" for my next filing. What a surprise to learn from the state corporation folks that the "entity" was now organized under the laws of the "US" and classified as "foreign". I found several other banks still organized under the state and clearly classified as "domestic".

Lesson: Don't assume anything.

What the hell do you think he's getting his poor mother into?

[Prof]

Regarding the original Lost Horizon's poster, please note that the poster is a former employee of the federal government.

Even PH's CTC would find that his income is taxable.

These idiots cannot even keep their "no tax" theories straight.

Sorry for the kid, but I suggest the feds take everything they can legally seize and leave these folks on the curb. A federal employee who dodges paying income taxes is really beyond the pale.

[Imalawman]

I was doing a little due diligence on one of the banks I use. My mother had informed me years ago that she liked doing business with this particular bank because it was "local" and they took care of her well. I had assumed that it was a state bank and was considering the validity of rebutting the presumption that a non-federally connected bank could generate "federal income" for my next filing. What a surprise to learn from the state corporation folks that the "entity" was now organized under the laws of the "US" and classified as "foreign". I found several other banks still organized under the state and clearly classified as "domestic".

Lesson: Don't assume anything.

This person will probably be surprised when he finds out that a "foreign" corporation only means that its incorporated in the neighboring state.

I don't think he's/she's doing anything on behalf of their mom. At least I hope not. What I think this might be is an attempt to get out of interest income. Since Pete couldn't think of a way out of that, this genius is trying to get out of everything, even interest income. Sheesh.