diller72 CTC thread again

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Famspear
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Re: diller72 CTC thread again

Post by Famspear »

diller72 wrote:
FOR THE RECORD (again), neither Hendrickson nor myself nor any other serious student of CtC would ever proclaim that the Section 7701 definition of "includes" should be interpreted to limit what is embraced by the subject of a dependent definition to only the item or items listed in the latter's definitional predicate. What we DO say is that in order to differentiate which other items CAN be embraced by the dependent definition from the REST OF THE KNOWN AND UNKNOWN COSMOS, some boundary MUST exist and that boundary MUST be inferable from the nature of the explicit example item or items in that definition.
diller, your approach to this topic is faulty. Let me break it to you gently: You do not need to differentiate which other items can be embraced by the dependent definition from the rest of the known and unknown cosmos; neither do you need to consider whether some boundary must exist, or whether that boundary must be inferable from the nature of the explicit example item or items in that definition.

To some extent, you're just gonna have to trust me on this one, diller. And that could be a real problem for you. Here's why.

To be successful, you are going to have to transfer your trust from its current focus (which is Peter Hendrickson, his writings, and your own readings and conclusions about what you have read both in Hendrickson's work and in actual legal materials) to a new focus, which would be the experienced posters here at Quatloos. Your apparent belief that CtC is "correct" and that the experts are wrong is based on your own reading, your own analysis, of Peter Hendrickson's writings and, probably, many of the statutes, regs or court cases he cites in his material. You have been conned. You have been scammed. If you can ever come to the realization that you have been scammed, it may be very difficult to accept.

Law (that is, the law of the United States of America and, in particular, federal income tax law) is knowable. Law is learnable. Law is not properly analyzed in the way you are trying to approach it.

Law has its own rules, its own philosophy, its own mysteries. And yes, law has its own logic. Diller, you need to be careful about how you use your preconceived notions about "logic" when studying the law. To paraphrase a famous man: "The life of the law is not logic; the life of the law is experience."

Cracking the Code is a scam. From a legal standpoint, it is nonsense. Those who willfully use the book are committing crimes. There is no way around that.

Another aspect to this is that you need to accept that you may never fully know the truth about the law in the way you would like to know it. Here's why.

We (the regulars here at Quatloos) cannot impart to you what we know in precisely the way we know it. For you to really know law in the way that some of us know it, you would have to have studied law the way we have studied it.

I can walk through Monet's garden at Giverny and gaze at his paintings of water lilies in the Orangerie in Paris. In doing this, I can "know" some part of what Monet knew and experienced, in some limited way. But I cannot fully know French impressionism in the way Monet knew it merely by experiencing these things. To some extent, no matter how much I study Monet, I am going to have to be content with being limited by my own training and experience to enjoying the artistry of Monet. Monet was an artistic genius. I am not.

The human capacity for self-delusion is very great. The regular posters at losthorizons.com are caught up in a massive and self-destructive delusion. Diller, I hope that, for you, this is the beginning of a journey to understanding. If you approach these posts here in Quatloos with the earnest desire to learn, you may bring yourself slowly out of the darkness and into the light.
"My greatest fear is that the audience will beat me to the punch line." -- David Mamet
diller72

Re: diller72 CTC thread again

Post by diller72 »

Well, I grok that no one here wanted to take an honest stab at outlining the income tax scheme as seen through the eyes of a CtC'er. Forgive me if I sounded the least bit surprised in that last sentence.

To keep the length of this post down (and to save myself a lot more typing right now), this overview of the background to and premises of "Cracking the Code" will consist mostly of bullets with rather minimal elaboration, editorializing (okay, maybe more than minimal editorializing), code quotes and especially case law citation (which I'm holding in reserve partly because SCOTUS justices tend to be even more long-winded than myself.) And I know that someone here will inevitably do so anyway, but please don't jump to the conclusion that there isn't a great deal of supplemental material available to further justify each incremental claim below. Before splattering a lot of perhaps unnecessary verbiage onto these pages as part of the overview, I'm interested in first ascertaining exactly where in this chain disagreement will be provoked. Ultimately, this is meant to be the opening discourse in an on-going and hopefully productive dialog, and I fully expect to be deluged with objections which I will try to answer and address over the course of our future forum exchanges. Even if no one at Quatloos! ever converts to LostHead-ism, I'll still consider my time here well-spent if I can just get Quatloosians to refrain from recycling certain myths about CtC. These MYTHS include (but unfortunately are not limited to):

A. CtC'ers claim that "wages" (as defined in Section 3121) are not taxable.

B. CtC'ers claim that "includes" and "including" (as defined in Section 7701) are not terms of expansion.

C. CtC'ers claim that only federal workers are subject to taxes on "gross income".

D. CtC'ers claim that only federal workers are subject to "Employment Taxes".

(Although I believe the majority of Quatloosians wouldn't ever do such a thing, there are a few individuals hanging about who compel me to ask that you please NOT dishonor and discredit everyone else on this site by cutting, pasting and attributing the myths above in such a way as to represent them as anything other than ERRORS. Hendrickson himself unceasingly strives to make this clear to the skeptical community, but to almost no avail, alas.

Disclaimer:
The contents of this post have not been vetted or approved by anyone else, Peter Hendrickson included. It should be read as my own personal take on the lessons I've learned from (primarily) "Cracking the Code: The Fascinating Truth about Taxation in America". However, I do believe it to be an accurate and on-point synopsis of the thrust of Hendrickson's arguments, and one that Hendrickson himself would largely or entirely endorse.

Here then, the 1-2-3's of the A-B-C's of CtC:

1. The Constitution recognizes two general classes of taxation: direct and indirect. The former class comprises so-called poll taxes and capitations; the latter comprises duties, imposts and excises.

2. The 16th amendment conferred no new power of taxation, but merely prevented a presumptive reclassification of income taxes from indirect to direct based on the nature of the source or economic activity from which income is derived.

3. Income taxes are therefore indirect taxes, and within that class they are neither imposts nor duties.

4. Income taxes are therefore excise taxes.

5. Excise taxes are synonymous with privilege taxes.

6. Granted and dispensed privileges are distinguishable from inalienable rights.

7. To tax a right even lightly is to restrict it, and to tax one heavily is to destroy it. So unlike privileges, basic rights cannot be taxed. The Constitution doesn't even permit the federal government to exercise its direct taxing powers upon the people of the Union states directly: it must collect the apportioned contributions from the Union state governments, which are in their turn free to raise that amount in any way their respective state constitutions allow.

8. Among the unspecified inalienable rights protected by the open-ended 9th Amendment is the right to be productive and self-sufficient, and the right to contract (where such rights do not infringe upon the equal rights of others). The 13th Amendment makes involuntary servitude illegal throughout the Union states (and no exception is made for its imposition by the federal government.)

9. To be constitutional then, income tax laws must be written in such a way that the taxes they impose meet the requirements under fundamental law for excise taxes upon granted privileges, not inalienable rights. And the only privileges the federal government has a legitimate stake in are those that depend upon the passive existence or the deliberated activities of the federal government itself.

Interlude:
So, do the income tax laws of Title 26 meet these requirements? Yes, but you have to stare at this ultra-busy and rather blurry Magic Eye image for a long while with just the proper depth of focus before the scheme suddenly solidifies before your now wide-open eyes. Continuing, then...

10. Once a legal term is specifically defined in a statute, any definition in a dictionary, any slang usage on the street, any connotation in the news media, any innuendo in a stand-up comic's routine or any allusion in literature becomes completely irrelevant to the interpretation of that term for the pertinent statutes and derived regulations which fall within the delineated scope of the statutory definition.

11. Defining a term to "mean" something is to equate all in-scope references of that term to the specific classification forming the predicate of the definition.

12. Defining a term to "include" something is to indicate by example what predicate referent is (or by examples what predicate referents are) to be EXPLICITLY embraced by the term. But unless the term definition specifically limits its application to the example(s) enumerated, this kind of definition also permits the embracing of unenumerated items which are implicitly similar to the enumerated examples in possessing the essential characteristic(s) common to all members of the list explicitly provided. A singular explicit example in a legal term defined by "includes" must of necessity be limited to that example and AT MOST to semantic or functional equivalents. Generally, the more examples furnished, the larger the class of presumptive referents that can be legitimately interpolated. In this way, "includes" and "including" become terms of expansion (YES!), but only of LIMITED expansion to other items of like kind or class relating to the enumerated items.

13. "Trade or business" "includes" performing the functions of a public office. As a specifically-defined legal term, the phrase does not "include" 'trade' and it does not "include" 'business' (nor for that matter does it "include" whatever you might construe an 'or' to be). Just like a compound variable name in a computer program's source code, it represents a different slot in working memory than do any other variable names that might be found anywhere else in the source code but which are only fragments or elements of the given compound name. If "trade or business" can be construed to "include" anything else, that something else better damn well have something to do with how the affairs of a public office get executed.

14. So, despite the common connotations of 'trade' and 'business', someone who is unlicensed by the federal government and is performing work [for which no federal licensing or special clearance is required or involved] in exchange for payment under a project-specific or piecework contract with a private-sector company in a Union state has in such an instance no possible "trade or business" connection. Therefore, the payer should not be issuing a return (1099-MISC) purporting that payments were made to the payee in the course of a "trade or business", which in essence also is tantamount to making the fraudulent claim (were it witting and willful) that the private company is operating as an official arm of the federal government.)

15. A recipient of such an erroneously submitted 1099-MISC form must indicate in her/his filing (under penalties of perjury, of course) that the return was erroneous in its characterization of the payment and is therefore not being included as "gross income" in either the filer's self-assessment or on the filer's 1040. Should the government take issue with this self-assessment, it is incumbent upon the Secretary (or, in the real world, the Secretary's delegates) to determine -- and prove -- that the payments in controversy were indeed connected with a "trade or business". (Astro says: "Rotsa ruck!"). Otherwise, anything erroneously sent by either payer or payee to the government as alleged "income" tax or "self-employment" tax assessments against the alleged tax liability of the payee must be refunded to the payee. If nothing was previously submitted as payment against such a phantom tax liability, no further actions are warranted.

Public service announcement:
The situation is a tad more convoluted for that majority fraction of W-2 recipients who didn't really deserve this little January gift in the mailbox. But for those in that unfortunate situation, it's well worth the extra bit of effort to untangle.

16. From Chapter 21 (FICA stuff) "wages" relevantly means remuneration for "employment".

17. Also from Chapter 21, "employment" relevantly means any service performed by an "employee" for the "person" employing him within the "United States", and by a citizen or resident of the "United States" working outside the "United States" as an "employee" for an "American employer", and by a member of the armed forces of the "United States".

18. For purposes of Chapter 21 (FICA), the term "employee" means any officer of a corporation, or any individual who, under the usual common law rules applicable in determining the employer-employee relationship, has the status of an employee (not that it ultimately matters, but am I the only one who sees a tautology here?), or any other individual who performs services for remuneration in a number of listed capacities that don't really concern us. And why don't they -- or for that matter, either of the first two "employee" referents -- concern us? Because they lead to wages (via bullet 17 "employment") only if the "employee" is performing services for a "person" within the "United States" or if the "employee" is a citizen or resident of the "United States" but working outside the "United States" for an "American employer", Please refer carefully to all these definitions both above and below to see the sinuous and (at least within the private-sector) seldom trod trail required to connect an "employee" to "wages".

19. For purposes of Chapter 21, the term "American employer" means an employer which matches one of the following: the "United States" (but not here used in a geographical sense) or any instrumentality thereof; an individual who is a resident of the "United States" (geographical sense here, though); a partnership, if two-thirds or more of the partners are residents of the (geographical) "United States"; a trust, if all of the trustees are residents of the (geographical again) "United States"; a corporation organized under the laws of the "United States" or of any "State" (see below -- this means a federally-chartered corporation, not a Union state-chartered corporation.)

20. For most of title 26, the term "State" shall be construed to include the District of Columbia, where such construction is necessary to carry out provisions of this title. Apart from the explicitly included District, the only entities that could be argued to fit this definition implicitly are the federal possessions and territories, as they are also under federal-only jurisdiction. Union states, with their varied and largely independent jurisdictions, are specifically not mentioned in the term definition. More relevantly for Chapter 21 (FICA), the in-scope term "State" explicitly includes the District of Columbia, the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, the Virgin Islands, Guam, and American Samoa. Still no example of a Union state.

21. Also for most of title 26, the term "United States" when used in a geographical sense includes only the States and the District of Columbia. Depending upon how broadly one interprets "State", the term "United States" in most of Title 26 can then be as geographically limited as DC, or as spread out as DC plus the possessions and territories. Either way, my adopted state of Texas ain't part of that definition. More relevantly for Chapter 21 again, here the term "United States", when used in a geographical sense, includes the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, the Virgin Islands, Guam, and American Samoa. Once again, no mention of any entity in that "includes" list which bears any essential resemblance to a Union state.

22. So, despite the common connotations of all those legal terms in bullets #16 - #21', if we connect the definitional dots on behalf of someone who is unlicensed by the federal government and is performing work [for which no federal licensing or special clearance is required or involved] in exchange for periodic pay at a private-sector company in a Union state, this person is not at all an "employee" accepting "wages" for "employment".

23. If the company in the previous bullet has withheld money from the periodic payments made to our bullet #22 someone, and then erroneously submitted a W-3 return and mailed a W-2 form to that same someone alleging the company's payment of Section 3121 "wages", the recipient must indicate in her/his filing (under penalties of perjury, of course) that the return was erroneous and is therefore not being included as "gross income" in either the filer's self-assessment or on the filer's 1040. If the government takes issue with this self-assessment, it is incumbent upon the Secretary (or, in the real world, the Secretary's delegates) to determine -- and prove -- that the payments in controversy were indeed "wages" per the chain of definitions above. Otherwise, anything erroneously withheld and sent by the payer to the government as alleged "income" tax or "employment" tax against the alleged tax liability of the payee must be refunded to the payee.

Well, that should do for starters. Maybe next time I'll get a chance to discuss WHY the Internal Revenue Code should be so craftily and deceptively written. But now I've gotta get back to my day job...
Quixote
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Re: diller72 CTC thread again

Post by Quixote »

4. Income taxes are therefore excise taxes.

5. Excise taxes are synonymous with privilege taxes.
I quit reading at that point, because I assume that much of what followed flows from your confusion on this point. The two statements above contradict one another. If excise taxes were synonymous with privilege taxes, then all income taxes are not excise taxes, because income is not a privilege, neither is the receipt of property that gives rise to income.
"Here is a fundamental question to ask yourself- what is the goal of the income tax scam? I think it is a means to extract wealth from the masses and give it to a parasite class." Skankbeat
Duke2Earl
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Re: diller72 CTC thread again

Post by Duke2Earl »

I am sorry but my gibberish filter and translator is in the shop. Accordingly, I am simply going to ignore that steaming hunk of nonsense. Boy, if you can believe that tripe there is no limit to the amount of crap you are able to consume and assimilate.
My choice early in life was to either be a piano player in a whorehouse or a politican. And to tell the truth there's hardly any difference.

Harry S Truman
RyanMcC

Re: diller72 CTC thread again

Post by RyanMcC »

diller72 wrote:I'll still consider my time here well-spent if I can just get Quatloosians to refrain from recycling certain myths about CtC. These MYTHS include (but unfortunately are not limited to):

A. CtC'ers claim that "wages" (as defined in Section 3121) are not taxable.

B. CtC'ers claim that "includes" and "including" (as defined in Section 7701) are not terms of expansion.

C. CtC'ers claim that only federal workers are subject to taxes on "gross income".

D. CtC'ers claim that only federal workers are subject to "Employment Taxes".
Strawmen. Nobody has claimed any of these things, Pete may claim people who disagree with CtC do so on those grounds, but Pete claiming something hardly makes it true (quite the contrary).

A) You claim you don't earn wages, not that "wages" aren't taxable, nobody has said anything to the contrary. Also, courts have rejected the notion that a privately employed person does not earn wages. No matter how much Pete tells you anybody who disagrees with CtC is "confused" it is actually the other way around.

B) Yea, they just don't "expand" to their common meaning according to you, the courts disagree.

C) You claim a "federal nexus" is required, for income to be taxable. Not that you have to actually work for the federal government.

D) Again you likely claim a "federal nexus" is required to be liable for "employment taxes".

---

I will read the rest of your message later, but for the time being I was curious what you thought about the court case cited here:

CtC News: Writ of Mandumbass Fails! -- How would you have handled the case any differently?
Last edited by RyanMcC on Thu May 22, 2008 9:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Cpt Banjo
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Re: diller72 CTC thread again

Post by Cpt Banjo »

diller72 wrote:5. Excise taxes are synonymous with privilege taxes.
Diller, in another thread (which you have apparently ignored) I have explained to you why this is not and never has been the law. While excises include taxes on the exercise of privileges , they're not limited to such taxes.
9. To be constitutional then, income tax laws must be written in such a way that the taxes they impose meet the requirements under fundamental law for excise taxes upon granted privileges, not inalienable rights. And the only privileges the federal government has a legitimate stake in are those that depend upon the passive existence or the deliberated activities of the federal government itself.
Then how do you explain Flint v. Stone Tracy (tax on corporations) and Knowlton v. Moore (estate tax), in which the Court upheld excise taxes on state-created privileges?
"Run get the pitcher, get the baby some beer." Rev. Gary Davis
jg
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Re: diller72 CTC thread again

Post by jg »

2. The 16th amendment conferred no new power of taxation, but merely prevented a presumptive reclassification of income taxes from indirect to direct based on the nature of the source or economic activity from which income is derived.

6. Granted and dispensed privileges are distinguishable from inalienable rights.
There is an apparent conflict between these two statements.
If the 16th amendment (and the court decisions after it) disallow reclassification based on the source of the income, it does not matter if the income was derived from the exercise of a right or of a privilege. Just because there is a distinction does not make a difference for dispensed privileges and inalienable rights being subject to the income tax.

BTW, there is no prohibition from taxing the excercise of a right. See http://evans-legal.com/dan/tpfaq.html#rights

Hopefully, you will not be dissuaded from keeping an open mind when reviewing the evidence contrary to CtC.
“Where there is an income tax, the just man will pay more and the unjust less on the same amount of income.” — Plato
Famspear
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Re: diller72 CTC thread again

Post by Famspear »

diller wrote:
To tax a right even lightly is to restrict it, and to tax one heavily is to destroy it. So unlike privileges, basic rights cannot be taxed. The Constitution doesn't even permit the federal government to exercise its direct taxing powers upon the people of the Union states directly: it must collect the apportioned contributions from the Union state governments, which are in their turn free to raise that amount in any way their respective state constitutions allow.
(bolding added).

Diller, among the numerous errors in your material, the bolded material is one of the more bizarre. I have seen this one several times in another forum.

There is not now, and there has never been, a requirement that the federal government collected apportioned contributions from the "Union state governments." There is no restriction that prohibits the federal government from exercising its "direct taxing powers" upon the people of the Union states directly. None. Zero. Zilch.
"My greatest fear is that the audience will beat me to the punch line." -- David Mamet
RyanMcC

Re: diller72 CTC thread again

Post by RyanMcC »

Before I start, have you read Dan Evan's Tax Protester FAQ? If you had you would have found a rebuttal to every nonsense conclusion you have presented here. You really should read it.

diller72 wrote:Here then, the 1-2-3's of the A-B-C's of CtC:

1. The Constitution recognizes two general classes of taxation: direct and indirect. The former class comprises so-called poll taxes and capitations; the latter comprises duties, imposts and excises.

2. The 16th amendment conferred no new power of taxation, but merely prevented a presumptive reclassification of income taxes from indirect to direct based on the nature of the source or economic activity from which income is derived.
http://evans-legal.com/dan/tpfaq.html#nonewpower
diller72 wrote:3. Income taxes are therefore indirect taxes, and within that class they are neither imposts nor duties.

4. Income taxes are therefore excise taxes.

5. Excise taxes are synonymous with privilege taxes.

6. Granted and dispensed privileges are distinguishable from inalienable rights.
http://evans-legal.com/dan/tpfaq.html#rights
diller72 wrote:7. To tax a right even lightly is to restrict it, and to tax one heavily is to destroy it. So unlike privileges, basic rights cannot be taxed. The Constitution doesn't even permit the federal government to exercise its direct taxing powers upon the people of the Union states directly: it must collect the apportioned contributions from the Union state governments, which are in their turn free to raise that amount in any way their respective state constitutions allow.
http://evans-legal.com/dan/tpfaq.html#direct

http://evans-legal.com/dan/tpfaq.html#wages
diller72 wrote:8. Among the unspecified inalienable rights protected by the open-ended 9th Amendment is the right to be productive and self-sufficient, and the right to contract (where such rights do not infringe upon the equal rights of others). The 13th Amendment makes involuntary servitude illegal throughout the Union states (and no exception is made for its imposition by the federal government.)

9. To be constitutional then, income tax laws must be written in such a way that the taxes they impose meet the requirements under fundamental law for excise taxes upon granted privileges, not inalienable rights. And the only privileges the federal government has a legitimate stake in are those that depend upon the passive existence or the deliberated activities of the federal government itself.
http://evans-legal.com/dan/tpfaq.html#slavery
http://evans-legal.com/dan/tpfaq.html#rights

Note the following citation:
Charles C. Steward Machine Co. v. Davis, 301 U.S. 548 (1937). wrote:But natural rights, so called, are as much subject to taxation as rights of lesser importance. An excise is not limited to vocations or activities that may be prohibited altogether. It is not limited to those that are the outcome of a franchise. It extends to vocations or activities pursued as of common right.
diller72 wrote:So, do the income tax laws of Title 26 meet these requirements?
The extra-legal requirements you are attempting to impose on it? The courts have ruled it doesn't need to.
diller72 wrote:10. Once a legal term is specifically defined in a statute, any definition in a dictionary, any slang usage on the street, any connotation in the news media, any innuendo in a stand-up comic's routine or any allusion in literature becomes completely irrelevant to the interpretation of that term for the pertinent statutes and derived regulations which fall within the delineated scope of the statutory definition.
http://evans-legal.com/dan/tpfaq.html#ordinarymeaning
diller72 wrote:11. Defining a term to "mean" something is to equate all in-scope references of that term to the specific classification forming the predicate of the definition.

12. Defining a term to "include" something is to indicate by example what predicate referent is (or by examples what predicate referents are) to be EXPLICITLY embraced by the term. But unless the term definition specifically limits its application to the example(s) enumerated, this kind of definition also permits the embracing of unenumerated items which are implicitly similar to the enumerated examples in possessing the essential characteristic(s) common to all members of the list explicitly provided. A singular explicit example in a legal term defined by "includes" must of necessity be limited to that example and AT MOST to semantic or functional equivalents. Generally, the more examples furnished, the larger the class of presumptive referents that can be legitimately interpolated. In this way, "includes" and "including" become terms of expansion (YES!), but only of LIMITED expansion to other items of like kind or class relating to the enumerated items.
Again, is that a citation of the law, or of Pete?

http://evans-legal.com/dan/tpfaq.html#includes
diller72 wrote:13. "Trade or business" "includes" performing the functions of a public office. As a specifically-defined legal term, the phrase does not "include" 'trade' and it does not "include" 'business' (nor for that matter does it "include" whatever you might construe an 'or' to be). Just like a compound variable name in a computer program's source code, it represents a different slot in working memory than do any other variable names that might be found anywhere else in the source code but which are only fragments or elements of the given compound name. If "trade or business" can be construed to "include" anything else, that something else better damn well have something to do with how the affairs of a public office get executed.

14. So, despite the common connotations of 'trade' and 'business', someone who is unlicensed by the federal government and is performing work [for which no federal licensing or special clearance is required or involved] in exchange for payment under a project-specific or piecework contract with a private-sector company in a Union state has in such an instance no possible "trade or business" connection. Therefore, the payer should not be issuing a return (1099-MISC) purporting that payments were made to the payee in the course of a "trade or business", which in essence also is tantamount to making the fraudulent claim (were it witting and willful) that the private company is operating as an official arm of the federal government.)

15. A recipient of such an erroneously submitted 1099-MISC form must indicate in her/his filing (under penalties of perjury, of course) that the return was erroneous in its characterization of the payment and is therefore not being included as "gross income" in either the filer's self-assessment or on the filer's 1040. Should the government take issue with this self-assessment, it is incumbent upon the Secretary (or, in the real world, the Secretary's delegates) to determine -- and prove -- that the payments in controversy were indeed connected with a "trade or business". (Astro says: "Rotsa ruck!"). Otherwise, anything erroneously sent by either payer or payee to the government as alleged "income" tax or "self-employment" tax assessments against the alleged tax liability of the payee must be refunded to the payee. If nothing was previously submitted as payment against such a phantom tax liability, no further actions are warranted.
Cite one court case that agrees with you assertion please. Funny how they would define "Trade or Business" as to not include a 'trade' or 'business'. Why didn't they just call it "functions of a public office" other than "trade or business"? -- Lemme guess, a conspiracy right?

http://evans-legal.com/dan/tpfaq.html#ordinarymeaning
diller72 wrote:Public service announcement:
The situation is a tad more convoluted for that majority fraction of W-2 recipients who didn't really deserve this little January gift in the mailbox. But for those in that unfortunate situation, it's well worth the extra bit of effort to untangle.
Public service announcement:

You are crazy, it is not the rest of the world.
diller72 wrote:16. From Chapter 21 (FICA stuff) "wages" relevantly means remuneration for "employment".

17. Also from Chapter 21, "employment" relevantly means any service performed by an "employee" for the "person" employing him within the "United States", and by a citizen or resident of the "United States" working outside the "United States" as an "employee" for an "American employer", and by a member of the armed forces of the "United States".

18. For purposes of Chapter 21 (FICA), the term "employee" means any officer of a corporation, or any individual who, under the usual common law rules applicable in determining the employer-employee relationship, has the status of an employee (not that it ultimately matters, but am I the only one who sees a tautology here?), or any other individual who performs services for remuneration in a number of listed capacities that don't really concern us. And why don't they -- or for that matter, either of the first two "employee" referents -- concern us? Because they lead to wages (via bullet 17 "employment") only if the "employee" is performing services for a "person" within the "United States" or if the "employee" is a citizen or resident of the "United States" but working outside the "United States" for an "American employer", Please refer carefully to all these definitions both above and below to see the sinuous and (at least within the private-sector) seldom trod trail required to connect an "employee" to "wages".

19. For purposes of Chapter 21, the term "American employer" means an employer which matches one of the following: the "United States" (but not here used in a geographical sense) or any instrumentality thereof; an individual who is a resident of the "United States" (geographical sense here, though); a partnership, if two-thirds or more of the partners are residents of the (geographical) "United States"; a trust, if all of the trustees are residents of the (geographical again) "United States"; a corporation organized under the laws of the "United States" or of any "State" (see below -- this means a federally-chartered corporation, not a Union state-chartered corporation.)

20. For most of title 26, the term "State" shall be construed to include the District of Columbia, where such construction is necessary to carry out provisions of this title. Apart from the explicitly included District, the only entities that could be argued to fit this definition implicitly are the federal possessions and territories, as they are also under federal-only jurisdiction. Union states, with their varied and largely independent jurisdictions, are specifically not mentioned in the term definition. More relevantly for Chapter 21 (FICA), the in-scope term "State" explicitly includes the District of Columbia, the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, the Virgin Islands, Guam, and American Samoa. Still no example of a Union state.

21. Also for most of title 26, the term "United States" when used in a geographical sense includes only the States and the District of Columbia. Depending upon how broadly one interprets "State", the term "United States" in most of Title 26 can then be as geographically limited as DC, or as spread out as DC plus the possessions and territories. Either way, my adopted state of Texas ain't part of that definition. More relevantly for Chapter 21 again, here the term "United States", when used in a geographical sense, includes the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, the Virgin Islands, Guam, and American Samoa. Once again, no mention of any entity in that "includes" list which bears any essential resemblance to a Union state.

22. So, despite the common connotations of all those legal terms in bullets #16 - #21', if we connect the definitional dots on behalf of someone who is unlicensed by the federal government and is performing work [for which no federal licensing or special clearance is required or involved] in exchange for periodic pay at a private-sector company in a Union state, this person is not at all an "employee" accepting "wages" for "employment".

23. If the company in the previous bullet has withheld money from the periodic payments made to our bullet #22 someone, and then erroneously submitted a W-3 return and mailed a W-2 form to that same someone alleging the company's payment of Section 3121 "wages", the recipient must indicate in her/his filing (under penalties of perjury, of course) that the return was erroneous and is therefore not being included as "gross income" in either the filer's self-assessment or on the filer's 1040. If the government takes issue with this self-assessment, it is incumbent upon the Secretary (or, in the real world, the Secretary's delegates) to determine -- and prove -- that the payments in controversy were indeed "wages" per the chain of definitions above. Otherwise, anything erroneously withheld and sent by the payer to the government as alleged "income" tax or "employment" tax against the alleged tax liability of the payee must be refunded to the payee.

Well, that should do for starters. Maybe next time I'll get a chance to discuss WHY the Internal Revenue Code should be so craftily and deceptively written. But now I've gotta get back to my day job...
Conspiracy! -- Or you are simply delusional.

http://evans-legal.com/dan/tpfaq.html#USdef
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Re: diller72 CTC thread again

Post by Famspear »

diller wrote:
So, despite the common connotations of 'trade' and 'business', someone who is unlicensed by the federal government and is performing work [for which no federal licensing or special clearance is required or involved] in exchange for payment under a project-specific or piecework contract with a private-sector company in a Union state has in such an instance no possible "trade or business" connection. Therefore, the payer should not be issuing a return (1099-MISC) purporting that payments were made to the payee in the course of a "trade or business", which in essence also is tantamount to making the fraudulent claim (were it witting and willful) that the private company is operating as an official arm of the federal government.)
Baloney. Completely false. There is absolutely nothing in the term "trade or business" that, for federal income tax purposes, limits the term's application to someone licensed by the federal government, etc. Nothing in the Constitution. Nothing in any statute. Nothing in any court ruling.

Diller, there is absolutely no legal authority for the hilarious proposition that a person unlicensed by the federal government who is performing work (for which no federal licensing or special clearance is required or involved) in exchange for payment under a project-specific or piecework contract with a private-sector company in a Union state is somehow not "connected" to a "trade or business" for U.S. federal income tax purposes. That person is engaged in a "trade or business" as that term is used in the Internal Revenue Code.

There is absolutely no law to the contrary. None. You are quite wrong.
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Re: diller72 CTC thread again

Post by Famspear »

diller wrote:
Defining a term to "include" something is to indicate by example what predicate referent is (or by examples what predicate referents are) to be EXPLICITLY embraced by the term. But unless the term definition specifically limits its application to the example(s) enumerated, this kind of definition also permits the embracing of unenumerated items which are implicitly similar to the enumerated examples in possessing the essential characteristic(s) common to all members of the list explicitly provided. A singular explicit example in a legal term defined by "includes" must of necessity be limited to that example and AT MOST to semantic or functional equivalents. Generally, the more examples furnished, the larger the class of presumptive referents that can be legitimately interpolated. In this way, "includes" and "including" become terms of expansion (YES!), but only of LIMITED expansion to other items of like kind or class relating to the enumerated items
(bolding added).

Baloney. Diller, your verbiage is not legal analysis. This sounds like something John J. Bulten (or maybe Peter Hendrickson) would write. As I stated in a prior post, your approach is faulty.

Law has a "logic" to it. Your "logic," however, is not the logic of legal discourse. To understand the law, you must understand and use the logic of legal discourse. You will never reach an understanding of what the terms "includes" and "including" mean in 26 USC section 7701 using the approach you are using. You aren't even close.
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Re: diller72 CTC thread again

Post by Famspear »

diller wrote:
Depending upon how broadly one interprets "State", the term "United States" in most of Title 26 can then be as geographically limited as DC, or as spread out as DC plus the possessions and territories. Either way, my adopted state of Texas ain't part of that definition.
(bolding added)

Regarding the bolded part -- completely false. There is absolutely no legal authority, statutory or otherwise, for this ludicrous proposition. Indeed, every single court that ruled on this argument has ruled it to be without merit.
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Re: diller72 CTC thread again

Post by Quixote »

Defining a term to "include" something is to indicate by example what predicate referent is (or by examples what predicate referents are) to be EXPLICITLY embraced by the term.
It's not clear what you mean by that. If I define "griblots" to mean all politicians in the US, I have defined the term "griblot" to include George W. Bush. Yet by defining "griblot" the way I did, I did not indicate anything by example. I suspect you meant to say that defining a term in the format "the term griblot includes George W. Bush", indicates what is embraced by the term. Unfortunately for that assertion, a statemt of the form "the term griblot includes George W. Bush", is not a defintion. It is a statement of enlargement or clarification, but not a definition.
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Re: diller72 CTC thread again

Post by wserra »

diller72 wrote:Thank you, Lambkin, for recovering and restoring much of this thread . . .
Did diller say anything in this post other than that s/he prefers "freeloader" to "hypocrite"?

OK, diller, you win. From now on, your Delta Tau Kai name is "Freeloader".
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Re: diller72 CTC thread again

Post by Quixote »

Law has a "logic" to it. Your "logic," however, is not the logic of legal discourse.
You are praising by faint condemnation. His "logic" is not the logic of English either. Nowhere outside of tax denier arguments is the form "the term X includes Y and Z", considered to be a definition in the usual sense of the word "definition".
"Here is a fundamental question to ask yourself- what is the goal of the income tax scam? I think it is a means to extract wealth from the masses and give it to a parasite class." Skankbeat
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Re: diller72 CTC thread again

Post by wserra »

Freeloader wrote:the income tax scheme as seen through the eyes of a CtC'er.
Is that anything like geography as seen through the eyes of a flat-earther? The Whipple procedure as seen through the eyes of a Jehovah's Witness?
please don't jump to the conclusion that there isn't a great deal of supplemental material available to further justify each incremental claim below.
Oh, I don't need to jump to that conclusion. If by "material" you mean "law", that conclusion leaps right out at you.
Before splattering a lot of perhaps unnecessary verbiage onto these pages
Too late.
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Re: diller72 CTC thread again

Post by Famspear »

Diller72, you should understand that Hendrickson is not the first to come up with this kind of frivolous crap. Consider this, an excerpt from a federal court decision in 1992:
The plaintiffs contend that they are entitled to a tax refund because they are not employees as defined in the I.R.C. [Internal Revenue Code] and, therefore are not taxpayers under the I.R.C. The government asserts that they [the plaintiffs] are taxpayers, and are therefore required to pay lawfully assessed taxes.

The plaintiffs assert that only federal officers, federal employees, elected officials or corporate officers are "employees" who are considered to be taxpayers under the Internal Revenue Code. The plaintiffs argue, in essence, that the explicit inclusion of federal officers and employees within the definition of "employee" for the purposes of the I.R.C. operates to exclude all others from the definition. Plaintiffs' exhibit D-1 in their motion to affirm status determinations calls the Court's attention to their position on this issue by citing to T.R. 31.3401(C)-1, which explicitly includes the federal government within the definition of employer. However, the plaintiffs' interpretation of the law comes from a misunderstanding of the law, and has been rejected by the federal courts. E.g., United States v. Latham [85-1 USTC ¶9180], 754 F.2d 747, 750 (7th Cir. 1985); Peth v. Breitzmann [85-1 USTC ¶9321], 611 F.Supp. 50, 53 (D.C. Wis. 1985). In fact, the term "employee" as used in the I.R.C. does include private wage earners. E.g., Latham [85-1 USTC ¶9180], 754 F.2d at 750.

Similarly, the plaintiffs submit that the explicit inclusion of the United States government within the definition of the term "employer" as used in the I.R.C. operates to exclude all others from the definition. However, as before, the I.R.C. provides no basis to interpret the definition of the term employer so restrictively. See 26 U.S.C. §3401(d) (1992) (term employer defined; no restriction on scope to United States government). In short, the plaintiffs' belief that they are not employees and that their employer is not an employer for the purposes of determination of their taxpayer status is based on a misunderstanding and is not a basis to oppose the government's motion for summary judgment.

It appears that the plaintiffs further argue that they are not taxpayers as defined in the I.R.C. because they are not individuals residing within the United States, but rather are individuals who reside in a foreign state, specifically the state of Ohio. The plaintiffs argue that since Ohio is a sovereign state, it is therefore a separate country from the United States. They further argue that as residents of Ohio, they are non-resident aliens and are not subject to United States taxes on income derived from an employer not engaged in trade or business within the United States as per 26 U.S.C. §864(c) . The Court takes judicial notice that while Ohio is a sovereign state, it is nevertheless part of the United States and Ohio residents are also residents of the United States and are subject to taxation. The Court finds the plaintiffs to be residents of the United States and not non-resident aliens.


C. PLAINTIFFS' CLAIM THAT THEIR WAGES DO NOT CONSTITUTE INCOME UNDER THE I.R.C.

The plaintiffs contend that they are entitled to a tax refund because the compensation they receive for personal labor is not income and, therefore, not taxable. To support this contention the plaintiffs also reraise their arguments that (a) only the United States government is an employer as defined by the I.R.C. and that only compensation paid to federal employees is income and (b) plaintiffs are non-resident aliens. These latter arguments have already been considered and rejected. As to the argument that compensation for labor is not income, the law on that point is well-developed and clear; wages are income. E.g., 26 U.S.C. §61(a) (1992); Perkins v. Commissioner [84-2 USTC ¶9898], 746 F.2d 1187, 1188 (6th Cir. 1984). The plaintiffs' position is based on mistaken construction of the I.R.C., and is not a basis for opposing defendant's motion.

Since none of the plaintiffs' contentions raise genuine issues of material fact, the question of whether plaintiff is entitled to a refund of taxes paid is suitable for summary judgment. The Court finds, as a matter of law, that the plaintiffs were properly assessed for the period in question, are subject to the I.R.C. as taxpayers, and that their compensation for labor is income. The government's motion for summary judgment is, therefore, GRANTED.
--from McKinley v. United States, 92-2 U.S. Tax Cas. (CCH) ¶50,509 (S.D. Ohio 1992) (bolding added).

You can bob and weave all you want. You can split imaginary hairs. You can argue, in Bultenesque fashion, that the court didn't say this thing or that thing or some other thing in just the way you want. You can argue that some difference between Hendrickson's theory and the McKinley theory is material, but none of that will get you where you want to go.

It is fun to study tax protester nonsense, including Hendrickson's nonsense. It is not necessary, however, to parse Hendrickson's material in detail in order to know that it is crap. I have seen more than enough sugar bowls and cow patties to know the difference between them. I do not need to make a detailed inspection of each and every cow patty in the barn yard to know that none of them are sugar bowls.
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Re: diller72 CTC thread again

Post by rachel »

Famspear wrote:diller wrote:
So, despite the common connotations of 'trade' and 'business', someone who is unlicensed by the federal government and is performing work [for which no federal licensing or special clearance is required or involved] in exchange for payment under a project-specific or piecework contract with a private-sector company in a Union state has in such an instance no possible "trade or business" connection. Therefore, the payer should not be issuing a return (1099-MISC) purporting that payments were made to the payee in the course of a "trade or business", which in essence also is tantamount to making the fraudulent claim (were it witting and willful) that the private company is operating as an official arm of the federal government.)
Baloney. Completely false. There is absolutely nothing in the term "trade or business" that, for federal income tax purposes, limits the term's application to someone licensed by the federal government, etc. Nothing in the Constitution. Nothing in any statute. Nothing in any court ruling.

Diller, there is absolutely no legal authority for the hilarious proposition that a person unlicensed by the federal government who is performing work (for which no federal licensing or special clearance is required or involved) in exchange for payment under a project-specific or piecework contract with a private-sector company in a Union state is somehow not "connected" to a "trade or business" for U.S. federal income tax purposes. That person is engaged in a "trade or business" as that term is used in the Internal Revenue Code.

There is absolutely no law to the contrary. None. You are quite wrong.
Famspear,
The term "TRADE OR BUSINESS" is used differently for Social Security purposes which is in title 26.
Social Security uses section 162 of the IRC of what chapter I cant remember at the moment. Also, Diller may have a point about being "licensed" from the government. I'm not sure what he's reffering to as "licensed". Please explain a little Diller.
I was just today looking around Title 5 and sure enough a ssn looks as though it is looked upon as a "license" for membership to a government agency.
"Agency" is also defined in such a way to include the Social Security Adminstration. Pretty broad definition to not include the SSA. It doesnt exclude it anyway.
Give me some time and I'll dig up a court case that reffers a ssn as a "license".

Also, up until 1868, "commerce", was not tied to any human beings labor in my state. It wasnt until after the adoption of new state constitutions were statutes written involving a person in "commerce" and tied to the "trade or bussiness"..
I have a certified copy of my states constitution prior 1868 and the current version. The current version allows statutes to be written where the "U.S. citizen" are in "commerce".
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Re: diller72 CTC thread again

Post by Red Cedar PM »

Looks like most of what diller has said has been responded to, don't think this one has been torn up just yet.
diller72 wrote: 23. If the company in the previous bullet has withheld money from the periodic payments made to our bullet #22 someone, and then erroneously submitted a W-3 return and mailed a W-2 form to that same someone alleging the company's payment of Section 3121 "wages", the recipient must indicate in her/his filing (under penalties of perjury, of course) that the return was erroneous and is therefore not being included as "gross income" in either the filer's self-assessment or on the filer's 1040. If the government takes issue with this self-assessment, it is incumbent upon the Secretary (or, in the real world, the Secretary's delegates) to determine -- and prove -- that the payments in controversy were indeed "wages" per the chain of definitions above. Otherwise, anything erroneously withheld and sent by the payer to the government as alleged "income" tax or "employment" tax against the alleged tax liability of the payee must be refunded to the payee.
You can dance around everything else all you want buddy. If a company paid you for work, you are either an independent contractor or an employee. If you are an independent contractor you are required to report the fees you received on Schedule C subject to SE. If you are an employee, the pay you received is wages and this should have been reported to you on a W-2. The employer is not going to buy any of your nonsense that because you don't live in DC or aren't a federal employee that you don't earn wages blah blah blah.... If you received a W-2, the IRS does not have to prove that you received wages. The rebuttable presumption is that you did receive wages. You attaching a Form 4582 with a bunch of gibberish does not rebut that presumption in the slightest. Doing so will only get you frivolous filing penalties, interest, and possibly jail time. In fact, the IRS has warned you not to do so and has responded almost entirely to CtC in this year's list of dirty dozen tax SCAMS.
IRS wrote:7. Zero Wages

Filing a phony wage- or income-related information return to replace a legitimate information return has been used as an illegal method to lower the amount of taxes owed. Typically, a Form 4852 (Substitute Form W-2) or a “corrected” Form 1099 is used as a way to improperly reduce taxable income to zero. The taxpayer also may submit a statement rebutting wages and taxes reported by a payer to the IRS. Sometimes fraudsters even include an explanation on their Form 4852 that cites statutory language on the definition of wages or may include some reference to a paying company that refuses to issue a corrected Form W-2 for fear of IRS retaliation. Taxpayers should resist any temptation to participate in any of the variations of this scheme.
Let me back up for a sec. Have you even read US v. Hendrickson? If so, how can you possibly think that this garbage is on the up-and-up?
Last edited by Red Cedar PM on Fri May 23, 2008 4:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Grixit wrote:Hey Diller: forget terms like "wages", "income", "derived from", "received", etc. If you did something, and got paid for it, you owe tax.
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Re: diller72 CTC thread again

Post by LPC »

Diller: What you believe is all stuff you (and others) have made up, because it has no basis in law or reality.
diller72 wrote:3. Income taxes are therefore indirect taxes, and within that class they are neither imposts nor duties.
Wrong.

The first income tax case, Springer v. United States, 102 U.S. 586 (1880), the Supreme Court found that the income tax was a constitutional “duty or excise.”

The Supreme Court has also stated that the classification of a tax as an "excise" or "impost" or "duty" is unimportant:

“Whether the tax is to be classified as an ‘excise’ is in truth not of critical importance. If not that, it is an ’impost’ [citations omitted] or a ‘duty’ [citations omitted].” Chas. C. Steward Machine Co. v. Davis, 301 U.S. 548, 581-582 (1937) (upholding the Social Security tax paid by employers as “a duty, an impost, or an excise upon the relation of employment”).
diller72 wrote:7. To tax a right even lightly is to restrict it, and to tax one heavily is to destroy it. So unlike privileges, basic rights cannot be taxed.
Wrong.

In rejecting such a claim in 1830, Chief Justice Marshall wrote:

“The power of legislation, and consequently of taxation, operates on all the persons and property belonging to the body politic. This is an original principle, which has its foundation in society itself. It is granted by all, for the benefit of all. It resides in government as a part of itself, and need not be reserved when property of any description, or the right to use it in any manner, is granted to individuals or corporate bodies. However absolute the right of an individual may be, it is still in the nature of that right, that it must bear a portion of the public burthens; and that portion must be determined by the legislature.” Providence Bank v. Billings, 29 U.S. 514, 563 (1830), (emphasis added).

In upholding the power of New York to tax a bequest to the United States, the Supreme Court observed in 1896 that:

“[T]he laws of all civilized states recognize in every citizen the absolute right to his own earnings, and to the enjoyment of his own property, and the increase thereof, during his life, except so far as the state may require him to contribute his share for public expenses....” United States v. Perkins, 163 U.S. 625, 627 (1896).

And, of course:

“But natural rights, so called, are as much subject to taxation as rights of lesser importance. An excise is not limited to vocations or activities that may be prohibited altogether. It is not limited to those that are the outcome of a franchise. It extends to vocations or activities pursued as of common right.” Charles C. Steward Machine Co. v. Davis, 301 U.S. 548 (1937).
diller72 wrote:The Constitution doesn't even permit the federal government to exercise its direct taxing powers upon the people of the Union states directly: it must collect the apportioned contributions from the Union state governments, which are in their turn free to raise that amount in any way their respective state constitutions allow.
Wrong.

In Hylton v. United States, 3 U.S. 171 (1796), the Supreme Court was unanimous in its opinion that Congress could impose a tax on a citizen of Virginia for carriages held for personal use and that the tax was an excise or duty and not “direct.” Of the four justices who heard the case, two (William Paterson and James Wilson) were members of the Constitutional Convention that drafted the Constitution, and presumably knew what it meant.

In Springer v. United States, 102 U.S. 586 (1880), the Supreme Court upheld the constitutionality of an income tax that was collected by the federal government from an individual, William H. Springer.

In Tyee Realty Co. v. Anderson, 240 U.S. 115, 117 (1916), one of the appellants was an individual named Edwin Thorne, and he complained about the constitutionality of “a progressive tax on the income of individuals.” The Supreme Court denied the appeal saying that “we need not now enter into an original consideration of the merits of these contentions because each and all of them were considered and adversely disposed of in Brushaber v. Union P. R. Co., 240 U.S. 1, 60 L.Ed. __, 36 Sup. Ct. Rep. 236.” (And the Brushaber decision upheld the constitutionality of an income tax under the 16th Amendment.)
diller72 wrote:9. To be constitutional then, income tax laws must be written in such a way that the taxes they impose meet the requirements under fundamental law for excise taxes upon granted privileges, not inalienable rights.
Wrong again, as explained above.
diller72 wrote:And the only privileges the federal government has a legitimate stake in are those that depend upon the passive existence or the deliberated activities of the federal government itself.
Wrong again.

The Supreme Court has consistently upheld the imposition of taxes on "privileges" having nothing to do with federal law or the federal government.

For example, in Hylton v. United States, 3 U.S. 171 (1796), the Supreme Court was unanimous in its opinion that Congress could impose a tax on a citizen of Virginia for the "privilege" of owning carriages held for personal use.

The Supreme Court has consistently upheld the imposition of federal taxes on activities which were governed by state law and totally outside of the power of Congress to regulate.

“[T]he recognition by the acts of Congress of the power and right of the States to tax, control, or regulate any business carried on within its limits, is entirely consistent with an intention on the part of Congress to tax such business for National purposes.” License Tax Cases, 72 U.S. 462, 475 (1866).

The Supreme Court therefore upheld the constitutionality of a tax on decedent's estates, even though the succession of property at death is governed by state law and there is no federal "privilege." Knowlton v. Moore, 178 U. S. 41 (1900).

The argument that Congress can only tax “privileges” is also contradicted by the Supreme Court decisions that have held that the income tax applies to income from embezzlement and other illegal activities. See, for example, James v. United States, 366 U.S. 213 (1961). An activity is certainly not “privileged” if it is illegal.
diller72 wrote:A singular explicit example in a legal term defined by "includes" must of necessity be limited to that example and AT MOST to semantic or functional equivalents.
Wrong. See IRC Section 7701(c), which specifically states that the use of the word "includes" does NOT exclude anything otherwise within the meaning of the term being defined.

A definition that says that "state" includes the District of Columbia does NOT mean that a state is not a state.
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