What do you all think about repealing this law?

[Demosthenes]

IRS Still Illegally Refers to 'Illegal Tax Protesters'
Washington, D.C. (June 2, 2008)
By WebCPA staff

Despite a provision enacted by Congress prohibiting the Internal Revenue Service from labeling taxpayers as "illegal tax protesters" or similar designations, the IRS is still using the term, according to a new report.

The Treasury Inspector General for Tax Administration said the IRS has eliminated most uses of this and similar designations, but in some instances IRS employees continued to refer to taxpayers by these labels in the case narratives it compiles on accused tax evaders. TIGTA said the label could stigmatize taxpayers and cause bias among IRS employees in future contacts with the taxpayers.

Congress enacted Section 3707 of the IRS Restructuring and Revenue Reform Act of 1998 to prohibit the use of the term "illegal tax protester" and similar labels by the IRS.

[snip]

Anyone?

[webhick]

I can understand why they shouldn't refer to them as "Illegal Tax Protesters", but in order for the IRS employees to stop using it, they need to have a substitute that would catch on. "Frivolous Filers", "Frivolous Non-Filers" and "Pain in the Asses" might be easier to pick up on.

[Imalawman]

there usually no such laws on the books of the states and it hasn't caused any trouble. We have names for other types of filers, why not TP or other such designation?

[webhick]

there usually no such laws on the books of the states and it hasn't caused any trouble. We have names for other types of filers, why not TP or other such designation?

Because TPs are sensitive and you might hurt their feelings. And then they make up crap about how some political tyrant oppressed the will and free speech of his hamster by naming it "Little Furry Ball of Terror" and that is just like how the US Government is trying to oppress them.

[Famspear]

Personally, I thought prohibiting the use of the term within the IRS was a dumb idea -- just a way for Congress to appear to be addressing a problem within the IRS by making it appear that Congress was doing something substantive. It's always seemed like a silly law to me. "Tax protester" had been the term uniformly used for over 20 years by the courts, in reported opinions, to describe those who made frivolous arguments about federal income taxes (and the term still is used by the courts).

Maybe if I had worked inside the IRS and had seen the alleged abuses at which the law was aimed, I might have felt differently.

Does anyone here have knowledge of whether or how the law has reduced abuses within the IRS?

[Quixote]

TIGTA said the label could stigmatize taxpayers and cause bias ... in future contacts with the taxpayers.

So can a court ordering a clerk to refuse to accept filings from abusive litigators. Sometimes, bias is a good thing. I say bring back the tax protester designation, but require that IRS conduct an annual review to determine the accuracy of the label. There is a very real danger that mere dabblers or entirely innocent people could be labeled in error. (NB: The account of a large oil company, a household name, carried a PDT (potentially dangerous taxpayer) label on IRS's system for 9 years before the error was discovered last year. There was some indication that routine account corrections were delayed for months due to the reluctance of IRS employees to touch the account of that potentially dangerous corporation.)

[Nikki]

I'm too lazy to go back and look up the new label coined by Hochman, but that should work.

However, it's important to make the distinction between (A) people who evade taxes or refuse to file based on a misguided reliance on frivolous arguments marketed by slimeballs, (B) people who agressively seek any opportunity to evade taxes by relying on the guru-of-the-month (also known as frequent Tax Court visitors), and (C) people who have taken a moral stand based on (for example) war funding, refuse to pay some or all of their taxes, and are willing to go to jail to stand up for their beliefs.

So, we have one type of honest, legitimate tax protestor and two flavors of evaders.

I believe the evaders do not deserve the distinction of being called tax protestors. Perhaps a new acronym -- FABE Frivolous Argument Based Evaders -- could be used.

I also think I've just opened the door for a contest to create the crudest or most appropriate acronym for the koolaide drinkers.

[Demosthenes]

I'm too lazy to go back and look up the new label coined by Hochman, but that should work.

He uses "Tax Defier."

[The Observer]

TIGTA said the label could stigmatize taxpayers and cause bias ... in future contacts with the taxpayers.

So can a court ordering a clerk to refuse to accept filings from abusive litigators. Sometimes, bias is a good thing. I say bring back the tax protester designation, but require that IRS conduct an annual review to determine the accuracy of the label. There is a very real danger that mere dabblers or entirely innocent people could be labeled in error. (NB: The account of a large oil company, a household name, carried a PDT (potentially dangerous taxpayer) label on IRS's system for 9 years before the error was discovered last year. There was some indication that routine account corrections were delayed for months due to the reluctance of IRS employees to touch the account of that potentially dangerous corporation.)

Prior to the passage of the law, there were no real rules regarding how a person could be classified with the dreaded "ITP" designation nor were there rules designating how to get off the list. If an IRS employee received correspondence from a taxpayer that appeared to them to be "Protestorese" they may have very well decided to recommend putting the designation in place. Thus a taxpayer who may have simply been angry at the IRS for some real (or percieved) abuse suddenly found themselves tagged with the epithet of "ITP." In Quixote's example I have a hunch that some employee of the corporation got into a nasty exchange with the IRS and said something that landed the company on the ITP list.

The law is a good one in that it prevents a situation from occurring that does not allow for due process - in this situation where the taxpayer has no recourse in clearing their name due to IRS error/abuse. Otherwise, if there is going to be a list, then you are going to need more laws to provide for proper classification, review/audit, and appeals of the designation. Allowing an informal list or designation to exist without controls or procedures subjects the taxpayer to the winds of fortune in terms of how any particular IRS employee decides to interpret the "ITP" designation and how they will provide service to the taxpayer.

[webhick]

I believe the evaders do not deserve the distinction of being called tax protestors. Perhaps a new acronym -- FABE Frivolous Argument Based Evaders -- could be used.

"Hey dude, I gotta stop by the free clinic today...I think I caught FABIES from Hendrickson."

Needless to say, I like it.

[Nikki]

I believe the evaders do not deserve the distinction of being called tax protestors. Perhaps a new acronym -- FABE Frivolous Argument Based Evaders -- could be used.

"Hey dude, I gotta stop by the free clinic today...I think I caught FABIES from Hendrickson."

Needless to say, I like it.

I'm impressed. It was just a pathetic, first attempt at an acronym loosly based on reality.

I'm sure some of the more creative members could come up with something much more impressive. I bet, if they work really hard, it could even be a PC in mixed company word.

Hochman's term "Tax Defier" (Appropriate thanks to the Goddess Of All Available Facts) really sucks with respect to getting any kind of message across.

[Demosthenes]

Hochman's term "Tax Defier" (Appropriate thanks to the Goddess Of All Available Facts) really sucks with respect to getting any kind of message across.

A point I've made abundantly clear in my ever so subtle way...

[webhick]

Hochman's term "Tax Defier" (Appropriate thanks to the Goddess Of All Available Facts) really sucks with respect to getting any kind of message across.

A point I've made abundantly clear in my ever so subtle way...

That explains why I'm missing a sledgehammer.

[BBFlatt]

The law as it stands is certainly overkill; you'll notice that it bans the use of the term Illegal tax protestor "or any similar term" so tax defier, tax denier, FABE, whatever, are just as illegal. I certainly agree that if a list or database of people who engage in protestor activities is going to be kept, that there should be rules and standards for putting people on it, as well as taking them off, including an appeal process. But the law doesn't just ban such a list, it also prohibits the use of the term for any purpose within the IRS, such as in case histories that TIGTA is apparently admonishing them for.

The last tax protestor trial I was involved with was in 1999, right after passage of RRA '98. When the RO and RA who worked the case were on the stand, defense counsel asked then if they believed his client was a tax protestor. Is was painful watching the verbal contortions they went through to avoid uttering the proscribed term.

Also, the PDT (Potentially Dangerous Taxpayer) designation is different from the ITP flag that used to be used. PDT is still in use, only the protestor designation was banned.

[jg]

I know, I know !!!
They can do what I do in my first and second grade Children's Ministry class.
Whenever someone does not have a name sign displayed I call them "Harry". Boy, girl, even my wife as a helper - they are all, at times, called "Harry". We quite enjoy the exercise, usually.

So, the IRS employees can just call these sorts "Harry taxpayer" in order to communicate there is something not fully known about this particular individual. And there would be no stigma attached. No one would mind being called Harry.

In my estimation, the tax defydenycheatignorwhiners won't mind either; and I would expect they will enjoy it in much the same way the members of my class enjoy it.

[Quixote]

I know, I know !!!
They can do what I do in my first and second grade Children's Ministry class.
Whenever someone does not have a name sign displayed I call them "Harry". Boy, girl, even my wife as a helper - they are all, at times, called "Harry". We quite enjoy the exercise, usually.

So, the IRS employees can just call these sorts "Harry taxpayer" in order to communicate there is something not fully known about this particular individual. And there would be no stigma attached. No one would mind being called Harry.

In my estimation, the tax defydenycheatignorwhiners won't mind either; and I would expect they will enjoy it in much the same way the members of my class enjoy it.

TIGTA won't like it. TIGTA doesn't like anything.

[Truthstalker]

Illegal Tax Protester

Does "illegal" modify "tax" or "protester?"

I think acronymns are fun. I'll bet no one here knew that TASER is an acronymn for Thomas A. Swift's Electric Rifle (how the hell do you "rifle" an elecrical discharge anyway?)

Some of my favorite acronymns are SNAFU, FUBB, FUBAR, JANFU and GOMER.

[grixit]

Illegal Tax Protester

Does "illegal" modify "tax" or "protester?"

I think acronymns are fun. I'll bet no one here knew that TASER is an acronymn for Thomas A. Swift's Electric Rifle

I don't remember that Tom Swift book.

(how the hell do you "rifle" an elecrical discharge anyway?)

Dunno, but in japanamation it's very common for energy weapons to impart a spin to their blasts.

[Demosthenes]

TIGTA won't like it. TIGTA doesn't like anything.

TIGTA's opposition on a legialtive issue won't keep me up at night.

[Judge Roy Bean]

Just in case some here may have forgotten about the intent of the law, why not:

MLPG

















Member of the List of Presumed Guilty.