The Lostheads build a nuke to swat a fly

[Quixote]

A poster on LH named Douglas received a 12C letter, a standardized IRS letter that requests information to clear up a discrepancy on the 1040. Apparently Douglas's Form 4852 was not in the envelope with the 1040, or as occasionally happens in organizations handling millions of pieces of mail a day, the form got misplaced somewhere between the mailroom and the data entry department. So the IRS had a 1040 on which withholding credit was claimed, but no W-2, 1099-R, or other form attached to support the line entry. The 12C is a letter mailed by a clerk to resolve what appears to be a clerical error. An average taxpayer reading a 12C will realize that he forgot to attach his W-2 or he attached it and IRS lost it. The only useful response is to mail the IRS another copy of the W-2 or whatever form documents the withholding.

The Lostheads, however, armed with the knowledge that IRS scrutinizes all CTC returns with an eye to pulling a fast one, know that the Letter 12C is the first volley and that they must respond with the big guns.

After several re-writes done with the help of Lostheads more clueless than himself, Douglas seems to have settled on the following application for a frivilous return penalty.

Your request for more information is irrelevant. All information needed to process my return has been provided.1040 and 2 4852s; proof of this is attached in the form of a certified mail recite. Form W-2 has bad payer data erroneously or ignorantly reported to the IRS; I will not send you a form I know to be false. Forms 4852 where submitted to correct W-2 misinformation, Money I earned for this year was from the non-taxable exercise common right and not a taxable privilege

Neither I nor my wife has an “employer” as defined but the IRC, therefore we can’t be “employees”
Earning “wages”. Money I earned for this year was from the non-taxable exercise common right and not a taxable privilege, the testimony I have signed from my first hand knowledge is legal, accurate, true and complete. If the dog ate my 2 copies of the form 4852s please write back requesting addition copies.

The IRM tells us what will happen when the IRS receives Douglas's reponses sans W-2 or 4852.

3.12.179.9.3.2 (01-01-2008)
Missing W–2
Check CC IRPTR, if available (usually mid-July for the current processing year) to determine the amount of withholding. See IRM 3.12.179.9.3.3 for more information on CC IRPTR.

If W–2 is missing and no data is available on IRPTR, and withholding amount is ≡ ≡ ≡ ≡ ≡ ≡ ≡ ≡ ≡ ≡ correct the unpostable according to the specific procedures for that code.

If W–2 is missing and no data is available on IRPTR, withholding is ≡ ≡ ≡ ≡ ≡ ≡ ≡ ≡ ≡ ≡ ≡ ≡ ≡ ≡ ≡ ≡ ≡ ≡ ≡ ≡ ≡ ≡ ≡ ≡ ≡ ≡ ≡ ≡ ≡ ≡ ≡ ≡ ≡ ≡ ≡ Suspend case 30 days.

If response is not received within 30 days, or taxpayer does not provide W–2,

Annotate "missing W–2" on return.

"X" out withholding amount on return.

Release using URC "8" . Route to Rejects annotating "Delete the withholding per no reply 12C letter" on UPRES and Routing Slip.

I suspect Douglas's letter will get him a more exciting response from the IRS.

[Cpt Banjo]

The abject stupidity of these people never ceases to amaze (and that doesn't even count the part about the "recite").

[Quixote]

MaPMaKaR, who works for the Texas Department of Transportation, has received equally useful assistence in deciphering this "cryptic" missive from the IRS.

"We Changed Your Total Estimated Tax and Payments and Credits"

"We changed your 2007 Estimated Tax Total reported on your return. Estimated Tax Total may include Estimated Tax Payments, credit applied from another tax year, or payments recieved with and extension of time to file. As a result of these changes, your balance is $.00."

I'm frankly at a loss to understand what has MaPMaKaR confused. Perhaps he has been fully indoctrinated in the Hendrickson theory that the government never means what it says, so he is forced to ignore the plain meaning of that paragraph and seek some hidden meaning by considering what the IRS did not say.

I invite those readers with psychic abilities to guess the exact amount of MaPMaKaR's estimated tax payments for 2007. Here's a hint: His only source of income was his wages from TXDot. Those with even greater psychic ability should be able to determine the amount MaPMaKaR effectively entered on line 64 of his Form 1040. Judging from his posts on LH, MaPMaKaR doesn't know that figure. And he has access to his copy of his return.

[webhick]

Since the Brown camp has been without much entertainment as of late, I'm going to beat on Douglas a little. And it's a Wednesday, and the Illuminati hates Wednesdays.

Your request for more information is irrelevant.

It's always a good idea to start your letters with a heaping serving of arrogance. It lets the recipient know up front that you think you know what you're talking about, but really don't. It's like watching a bad illusionist pull a contortionist out his ass.

All information needed to process my return has been provided.

Except the W-2. And your left nut. You might want to mark "fragile" on that last package.

1040 and 2 4852s;

According to the directions on the 4852, you should have attached the W-2s.* Are you unable to read and follow directions? Oh wait, you've submitted your higher brain functions to Hendrickson. Once he gets enough of those, I bet he's gonna make cookies with them. Mmmm... comprehension-chip cookies with evader nuts. They're my favorite. Evader nuts are really expensive this time of year. Far more plentiful during tax season.

proof of this is attached in the form of a certified mail recite.

Yeah, because sending them proof of sending them paperwork that they're not saying is missing is so going to give them what they're requesting. By the way, how do I get my certified mail to recite stuff?

Form W-2 has bad payer data erroneously or ignorantly reported to the IRS;

Bad, payer! Bad! How dare you be erroneous and ignorant at the same time! I hope the IRS writes the "payers" and lets them know that these wackos think they're engaging in erroneous and ignorant reporting. Ignorance is bliss, so they'll be really happy to know that their employees have caught on to how happy they really are.

I will not send you a form I know to be false.

Then why did you send them the 1040 and the 4852s? Or do you have a problem sending "a" false form, but no problem sending three false forms?

Forms 4852 where submitted to correct W-2 misinformation

Damn, I'm really craving cookies now.

Money I earned for this year was from the non-taxable exercise common right and not a taxable privilege

Awesome! Which non-taxable exercise? Was it tae bo or yoga? I didn't know that it was common do those right-handed. I mean, are there separate directions for lefties or something?

Neither I nor my wife has an “employer” as defined but the IRC, therefore we can’t be employees” Earning “wages”.

So, if these companies that paid you and your wife aren't employers...what are they? Marshmallows? I know they must be sugary sweet to put up with you.

Money I earned for this year was from the non-taxable exercise common right and not a taxable privilege,

I'm dying here. Is it a Richard Simmons video? Did you learn it at Bally's? Is there some crazy diet that goes with it? Do you gargle snake spit on Friday nights before jumping on the back of a mo-ped and snorting "Meow" to everyone you drive past? No, really...do you?

the testimony I have signed from my first hand knowledge is legal, accurate, true and complete.

First of all, I seriously doubt you know which hand came out first when you were born. Secondly, hands don't have knowledge. Unless you're Ash in the Evil Dead series. That hand not only had knowledge, it had an agenda. OH! And Thing! How could I forget Thing?! Thing was a little crazy. Does anyone remember that time he got totally wasted on No-Crack and just ran around town flipping everyone off and running out in front of traffic to see if he could cause an accident? That alone makes me want to see a fight to the death between Thing and Ash's evil hand because Thing totally proved that no matter how many fingers get mangled, he'll always be willing and able to kick the crap out of anyone that looks at him funny.

Well, in any event, "knowledge" can't sign anything. An appendage needs to do that. Hands, feet, and in a pinch a mouth (even though it's not an appendage). Of course, don't forget the tools in the midsection. But you wouldn't want to touch the pen after that. Seriously, just throw it out in a little bio-hazard container.

If the dog ate my 2 copies of the form 4852s please write back requesting addition copies.

How would they know if your puppy ate your tax return? Did the puppy get the certified mail to recite directions to the local IRS office, show up there and hock your tax return with attachments all over some poor guy's desk and then the IRS employee dissected the gooey glob of leftover tree enough to find the numbers "1040" and two "4852"s, but not enough to see the "W-2"s you neglected to send per the directions?

But that doesn't matter, because they're requesting copies of the W-2, not the 4852s. You won't understand this because Hendrickson is baking cookies.

* Figured I might include this for a laugh:

Purpose of form. Form 4852 serves as a substitute for Forms W-2, W-2c, and 1099-R and is completed by taxpayers or their representatives when (a) their employer or payer does not give them a Form W-2 or Form 1099-R, or (b) when an employer or payer has issued an incorrect Form W-2 or Form 1099-R. Attach this form to your income tax return.

[webhick]

This one thinks he's got a WMD until mutter corrects him on bankruptcy law:

first off there should be a link on this site to where all can sign up for a class action lawsuit. 2nd. its much easier to constantly pursue answers to your concerns to your u.s senator they have to reply. its easier to go to and hound 1 person than it is to try to comunicate with the 7000 zombies. worst case" stop paying on credit cards and play there game back wait 3 years untill the law allows for bankruptcy on irs penalties and debts. remember your u.s senator has taken a oath to uphold the constitution and they like being re-elected. congress oversees the irs code so they better damn well explain it . its the best method i ve had so far getting answers to,?.....s and you can use there testimony via court s or attachments to letter to the 7000 zombies . if they cause financial hardship . dominoe the effect.

[Dezcad]

This one thinks he's got a WMD until mutter corrects him on bankruptcy law:

first off there should be a link on this site to where all can sign up for a class action lawsuit. 2nd. its much easier to constantly pursue answers to your concerns to your u.s senator they have to reply. its easier to go to and hound 1 person than it is to try to comunicate with the 7000 zombies. worst case" stop paying on credit cards and play there game back wait 3 years untill the law allows for bankruptcy on irs penalties and debts. remember your u.s senator has taken a oath to uphold the constitution and they like being re-elected. congress oversees the irs code so they better damn well explain it . its the best method i ve had so far getting answers to,?.....s and you can use there testimony via court s or attachments to letter to the 7000 zombies . if they cause financial hardship . dominoe the effect.

Mutter's reply of

the last time i looked Tax debts are not includable (sic) in a bankruptcy.

is only partially correct. Some tax debts are discharged in a Chapter 7 bankruptcy, but 11 USC 523 (a)(1) prevents certain tax debts from being discharged.

The provision that should be of most concern to Crackheads is 11 USC 523(a)(1)(C):

(C) with respect to which the debtor made a fraudulent return or willfully attempted in any manner to evade or defeat such tax;

[Famspear]

This one thinks he's got a WMD until mutter corrects him on bankruptcy law:

first off there should be a link on this site to where all can sign up for a class action lawsuit. 2nd. its much easier to constantly pursue answers to your concerns to your u.s senator they have to reply. its easier to go to and hound 1 person than it is to try to comunicate with the 7000 zombies. worst case" stop paying on credit cards and play there game back wait 3 years untill the law allows for bankruptcy on irs penalties and debts. remember your u.s senator has taken a oath to uphold the constitution and they like being re-elected. congress oversees the irs code so they better damn well explain it . its the best method i ve had so far getting answers to,?.....s and you can use there testimony via court s or attachments to letter to the 7000 zombies . if they cause financial hardship . dominoe the effect.

Mutter's reply of

the last time i looked Tax debts are not includable (sic) in a bankruptcy.

is only partially correct. Some tax debts are discharged in a Chapter 7 bankruptcy, but 11 USC 523 (a)(1) prevents certain tax debts from being discharged.

The provision that should be of most concern to Crackheads is 11 USC 523(a)(1)(C):

(C) with respect to which the debtor made a fraudulent return or willfully attempted in any manner to evade or defeat such tax;

What makes 523(a)(1)(C) even worse for tax protesters is that the courts do not interpret this provision the same way they do for criminal tax evasion under 26 USC 7201. That is, the "attempt" under 523(a)(1)(C) does not have to consist of an "affirmative act" in the way it does under 7201. To have the tax be non-dischargeable, the "attempt" can be a mere "omission". See, e.g., In re Toti, 24 F.3d 806, 94-1 U.S. Tax Cas. (CCH) paragr. 50,235 (6th Cir.), cert. denied, 513 U.S. 987 (1994).

And the Gardner case:

Toti clarified that §523(a)(1)(C) covered both acts of omission, such as failure to file returns and failure to pay taxes, and acts of commission, such as affirmative acts of evasion. [ . . . ] Moreover, while nonpayment alone is insufficient to bar discharge of a tax obligation, a "knowing and deliberate" nonpayment provides the basis for determining that the tax debt is non-dischargeable. See In re Birkenstock, 87 F.3d 947, 952 (7th Cir. 1996).

--Gardner v. United States (In re Gardner), 2004-1 USTC ¶50,196 (6th Cir. 2004) (bolding added).

This is, of course, the kind of thing that drives SteveSy and other tax protesters crazy; in one statute (26 USC 7201) the courts interpret the word "attempt" as requiring a "commission", an affirmative act, such that a mere failure to act (or omission) is not enough, and the same courts interpret another statute (11 USC 523) as meaning that the same word "attempt" can mean both "affirmative acts" (commissions) AND failures to act (omissions).

"Illogical" in some sense? Yes. "Inconsistent" in some sense? Yes. But it is the law.

[Quixote]

I see there were no takers on my psychic challenge.

MaPMaKaR's total estimated tax payments for 2007 were $0.00. He was an employee (and a TP) and, therefore, had no reason to make estimated tax payments.

His entry on Line 64 of his 2007 Form 1040 was effectively $0.00, i.e., he entered a zero or left it blank. I needed no crystal ball for that one either. I know line 64 was zero, because he put his withholding on line 65. I know he had an entry on line 65, because IRS sent him a math error notice concerning his entry on line 65. He had no estimated tax payments, so his entry on line 65 must have been what he intended to put on line 64, his withholding credits. MaPMaKaR's blow against the system was not parried by the ever vigilent CTC squad or the Lost Returns Division, but rather by MaPMaKaR's inability to read line captions.