WTP Beats a Dead Horse

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Nikki

WTP Beats a Dead Horse

Post by Nikki »

Bob is now urging a nation-wide, AUTOMATED letter-to-the editor campaign to accompany the roll-out of his reissuance of PETITION PROGRAM.

Not only is he planning to serve a copy of the petitions on every Senator and Representative, he has stated "Your response is required by August 8, 2008."

I hope the elected officials, in preparing their responses, don't dwell to heavily on politeness or political correctness.
Letter to the Editor:
re: The Plan to Restore Constitutional Order

Right-click here to download the .rtf text version of this letter
Letter to the Editor:
re: The Plan to Restore Constitutional Order

Dear Editor:
June 30, 2008 may be remembered in history as the day Americans began, in earnest, the moral and solemn process of holding their (servant) Government accountable to the Constitution -- under threat of withdrawal of allegiance, support and tax money.

To secure this end, the People have begun to claim and exercise a little-known, but unalienable, "Right of Redress," rather than depending upon the will of the majority as defined by precinct voters, those who cast votes on Capitol Hill, and those that vote from the inner sanctums of our Courthouses.

Most do not know that this profound natural Right, first articulated 800 years ago in Magna Carta, is embodied and protected by the Petition clause of the First Amendment -- the same Amendment which protects your voice in the defense of Freedom. Very importantly, academic research since 1986 makes clear the Right to Petition for Redress is NOT a redundant statement of the Right of Speech. It is in fact, the individual exercise of Popular Sovereignty.

To be sure, the widespread exercise of this Right holds significant implications for our nation and are most worthy of your interest. Here's what the Founders sitting as the first Congress had to say:

“If money is wanted by Rulers
who have in any manner oppressed the People,
they may retain it until their grievances are redressed,
and thus peaceably procure relief, without trusting to despised
petitions or disturbing the public tranquility.”

Journals of the Continental Congress, 1:105-113

On June 30, 2008, approximately 1200 American citizens will begin the process of exercising the Right by formally serving a Legal Notice and Demand for Redress upon the President, the Attorney General and every member of the U.S. House of Representatives and the U.S. Senate at their local district offices.

Demanding an official response within forty (40) days, the Notice includes seven (7) Petitions for Redress of Grievances regarding substantial violations of the Constitution:

1. The Iraq invasion in violation of the war powers clauses.

2. The Federal Reserve System’s violation of the money clauses.

3. The USA Patriot Act’s violation of the privacy clauses.

4. The direct, un-apportioned taxes on labor in violation of the tax clauses.

5. The federal gun control laws in violation of the Second Amendment.

6. The failure to enforce immigration laws in violation of the “faithfully execute clause.”

7. The construction, by stealth, of a "North American Union" without constitutional authority.

We the People cannot elect our way out of tyranny. Any assertion that by electing either McCain or Obama we can cure the ills that now plague America is simply naive or based on a lack of information regarding the corrupting forces that truly influence and control our government and political process.

We urge you -- the media, to learn about this profound Right and to cover this event. Our Republic faces a watershed moment no less historically compelling or newsworthy than, e.g., the emergence of the Civil Rights movement. If Liberty is to survive through peaceful means, you must embrace your obligation - both moral and Constitutional - to bring this critical information to your readers, viewers and listeners.

For details about the Plan to Restore Constitutional Order, visit http://www.givemeliberty.org/revolution.

Sincerely,

(signed)
Demosthenes
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Re: WTP Beats a Dead Horse

Post by Demosthenes »

The politicians aren't even in town during August recess.
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Re: WTP Beats a Dead Horse

Post by Famspear »

Demosthenes wrote:The politicians aren't even in town during August recess.
That was my first reaction as well.
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Nikki

Re: WTP Beats a Dead Horse

Post by Nikki »

From the way Bob's recruiting "servers," it looks like they might be targeting local offices.

In any case, it's all a prelude to Bob beginning his second death fast on 8/11.
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grixit
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Re: WTP Beats a Dead Horse

Post by grixit »

Nikki wrote: In any case, it's all a prelude to Bob beginning his second death fast on 8/11.
Will there be someone to take regular pictures of hinm, say twice a week?
Three cheers for the Lesser Evil!

10 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2
. . . . . . Dr Pepper
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . . 4
Nikki

Re: WTP Beats a Dead Horse

Post by Nikki »

At least two people -- until our cameras explode.
LPC
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Re: WTP Beats a Dead Horse

Post by LPC »

Nikki wrote:Bob is now urging a nation-wide, AUTOMATED letter-to-the editor campaign
Nothing quite gets the attention of our elected officials like spam.
Dan Evans
Foreman of the Unified Citizens' Grand Jury for Pennsylvania
(And author of the Tax Protester FAQ: evans-legal.com/dan/tpfaq.html)
"Nothing is more terrible than ignorance in action." Johann Wolfgang von Goethe.
Trippy

Re: WTP Beats a Dead Horse

Post by Trippy »

Poor ol' Bobby just can't get a break (any/all emphasis mine)...
Schulzie wrote:TRUST: The Plan Depends On It

WTP’s Plan to Restore Constitutional Order is on track, but running behind schedule.

By now, the Petitions for Redress should have been delivered to every member of Congress and we should have been able to proudly proclaim, “Congress has been served!”

Unfortunately, we're not quite there yet.

To begin with, we timely mailed 1219 sets of Petition packages to over 700 people who volunteered to serve 535 members of Congress in their district offices on June 30, 2008, and to return to us a notarized proof of service.

By July 3rd and again after the July 4th weekend we had received and were processing hundreds of returns from volunteers who had successfully completed service. However, by July 10th it was apparent that 129 of the 535 members of Congress had still not been served! We scrambled to close the “service gap,” contacting volunteers associated with the still un-served congressmen. Due to the urgency of the task and the work involved, Bob Schulz cancelled his scheduled appearance at the Revolution March in Washington, DC.

For whatever reason, many who had volunteered to serve their member(s) of Congress apparently received the Petition package(s) from us (at no cost) but decided not to serve it – i.e., they simply failed to do what they had committed to do as part of this historical project.

The issue comes down to knowing who to trust: Who among us has the passion and has truly made the struggle to restore constitutional order a priority in their lives?

The vast majority of the volunteers certainly earned the trust of all of us who are engaged in the struggle. They served the cause of Freedom well by timely, intelligently and professionally serving the Petitions for Redress on over 400 members of Congress. We are sincerely grateful for their service to the People and to our Constitution.

However, dozens of others have apparently demonstrated that they are less worthy of our trust. Despite having made a public commitment to serve the Petitions, these individuals ultimately decided to keep the Petition package, rather than serve it as they promised to do.

Did these people have a legitimate personal situation which kept them from participating? Were they simply seeking a free souvenir? Were they confused because the website showed that others had also signed up to serve particular congressman so they simply kept the material for themselves, assuming that others would serve the Petitions? Did they have any intention of honestly participating in this precedent-setting project to hold the government accountable to the Constitution? Were they agents of special interests (such as the Government) seeking to disrupt our project?

We may never know the answers to these questions. What we do know is that the failure of so many to timely serve their congressmen has substantially delayed our schedule of events. We also know there appears to be a rather significant number of people who have not yet earned our trust.
For more laughs (I am NOT responsible for ruined keyboards, so please down your drinks beforehand), visit the latest WTP "update."
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Re: WTP Beats a Dead Horse

Post by The Operative »

So, instead of just having one district court and an appellate court tell him he's full of "el toro poo poo". Bob wants the other 11 to tell him he's full of "el toro poo poo".
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notorial dissent
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Re: WTP Beats a Dead Horse

Post by notorial dissent »

What I want to know is where old blathering Bob found the other 500 people who were supposed to be delivering this nonsense, since I am sure there aren’t that many nut cases involved in WTP to begin with. I am more inclined to believe that the petitions didn’t get delivered for the simple reason there wasn’t anyone to deliver it.

The other thing I would like to know is where he came up with funds to file in all 11 circuits, or is that just more nonsense as well.
The fact that you sincerely and wholeheartedly believe that the “Law of Gravity” is unconstitutional and a violation of your sovereign rights, does not absolve you of adherence to it.
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Re: WTP Beats a Dead Horse

Post by Demosthenes »

I thought this was interesting.
Rep. Ike Skelton

Most egregiously, Rep. Ike Skelton (Missouri) answered the Petitions for Redress with another stain on the Constitution. On July 9th, Skelton retaliated by turning over the Petitions for Redress and the identity of his servers (Ray and Elaine Herron) to the IRS and the Department of Justice, labeling the Herrons as “tax avoiders.” Click to read Rep. Skelton's letter of retaliation.

Editor’s Note: The Herrons are law abiding citizens who own a small business, have never had any trouble with the law (traffic ticket the exception) and who have always filed their tax returns. WTP believes it should contact Skelton to suggest he take a course on the Constitution, to be paid for by WTP if he obtains a grade of “B” or better.

It did not take the Herrons long to respond to Skelton. They posted a message on Skelton’s website and have decided to file a federal lawsuit in Kansas City, MO to bring Ike Skelton before a federal judge for unconstitutionally retaliating against them for merely claiming and exercising their creator-endowed, natural, unalienable, First Amendment Right to Petition Skelton for Redress of violations of the Constitution.

Let us hope the federal Judiciary will abide by well-established legal precedent establishing that one cannot be penalized for the exercise of fundamental Rights -- particularly if such Rights involve challenging the authority of the Government.

The complaint is expected to be filed early next week.

Click here for a copy of Rep. Skelton’s letter response to the Herrons.

Click here to see the message the Herrons posted on Skelton’s website.

Click here for a copy of a draft of the complaint to be filed shortly by the Herrons.
Demo.
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Re: WTP Beats a Dead Horse

Post by wserra »

I particularly like how they write that the stupid "right to petition" stuff is a "case of first impression". If they haven't read We The People Foundation, Inc. v. United States, 485 F.3d 140 (DC Cir. 2007), cert. denied ___ U.S. ___, 128 S.Ct. 939 (2008), I'm sure the govt will direct them to it.
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Re: WTP Beats a Dead Horse

Post by Joey Smith »

Bob is just trying to get something going so that he can point to it as the *real* reason he was indicted when the time happens.
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Trippy

Re: Re: WTP Beats a Dead Horse

Post by Trippy »

This one also cracked me up:
Schulzie wrote:Thankfully, an over-abundance of qualified People in each of the eleven judicial (appellate) circuits have volunteered to be Plaintiffs. We have prepared a draft of each of the eleven lawsuits, selecting as Plaintiffs those who satisfy most of the criteria we have deemed necessary to establish standing and successfully sustain the claim through the U.S. Courts of Appeal.
Ol' Schulzie knows he'll be smacked down immediately if he is the plaintiff -- so he wants others to ruin their lives and reputations on this silly vexatious junk.
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Re: WTP Beats a Dead Horse

Post by LPC »

WTP believes it should contact Skelton to suggest he take a course on the Constitution, to be paid for by WTP if he obtains a grade of “B” or better.
LPC believes that he should contact WTP to suggest that it take a course on the Constitution, and then explain the following:

1. How anyone can file a civil suit against a member of Congress, based on a letter written by that member in his/her official capacity, without violating the speech and debate clause of the constitution; and

2. How any court could issue an injunction that directs what legislative issues Congress must consider without violating the doctrine of the separation of powers.

For bonus points, WTP should also consider how its stooges can continue to flog the dead horse that is the "right to petition lawsuit" that WTP has already lost soundly and irretrievably without those stooges incurring Rule 11 sanctions.
Dan Evans
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(And author of the Tax Protester FAQ: evans-legal.com/dan/tpfaq.html)
"Nothing is more terrible than ignorance in action." Johann Wolfgang von Goethe.
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Re: WTP Beats a Dead Horse

Post by fortinbras »

The craziness with the Herron's appears at Schulz's website and also at:

http://www.dailypaul.com/node/55651

This turns out to be a Ron Paul campaign website, and Ron Paul needs this craziness to be associated with him like a drowning man needs an anvil.

Here's a copy of the supposed complaint that the Herrons are supposedly filing in court (the Schulz website phrases this as if it were a done deal but apparently it is not yet filed):

http://www.wethepeoplefoundation.org/UP ... l-2008.pdf

Very neatly typed but completely devoid of any legal theory on which they are entitled to anything.
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Re: WTP Beats a Dead Horse

Post by Dezcad »

fortinbras wrote:The craziness with the Herron's appears at Schulz's website and also at:

http://www.dailypaul.com/node/55651

This turns out to be a Ron Paul campaign website, and Ron Paul needs this craziness to be associated with him like a drowning man needs an anvil.

Here's a copy of the supposed complaint that the Herrons are supposedly filing in court (the Schulz website phrases this as if it were a done deal but apparently it is not yet filed):

http://www.wethepeoplefoundation.org/UP ... l-2008.pdf

Very neatly typed but completely devoid of any legal theory on which they are entitled to anything.
It appears that the Herrons' complaint has been filed.
U.S. District Court
United States District Court for the Western District of Missouri (Kansas City)
CIVIL DOCKET FOR CASE #: 4:08-cv-00531-ODS

Herron et al v. Skelton
Assigned to: District Judge Ortrie D. Smith
Cause: 28:1331 Federal Question: Other Civil Rights
Date Filed: 07/22/2008
Jury Demand: None
Nature of Suit: 440 Civil Rights: Other
Jurisdiction: Federal Question
Plaintiff
Ray Herron represented by Ray Herron
14655 TT Highway
Warsaw, MO 65355
660 547-0077
PRO SE
Plaintiff
Elaine Herron represented by Elaine Herron
14655 TT Highway
Warsaw, MO 65355
660 547-0077
PRO SE

V.
Defendant
Ike Skelton
Individually and in his official capacity as a Member of the U.S. House of Representatives

Proceedings for case 4:08-cv-00531-ODS are not available
fortinbras
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Re: WTP Beats a Dead Horse

Post by fortinbras »

If the Herrons' suit has been filed, it will be kicked out in (almost) record time.
Not only is it violative of Congressional immunity but the Supreme Court, on at least two occasions, has said that the right to petition the govt does not mean that the govt is obliged to be responsive.
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Re: WTP Beats a Dead Horse

Post by Dr. Caligari »

large hunks of the OC operate in dumb-*ss world
I resemble that remark!
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Re: WTP Beats a Dead Horse

Post by Quixote »

Congressman Skelton's actions in response to the Herrons' correspondence was unusually quick and unusually blunt for a response to constituent correspondence. I doubt that the petition was the first piece of gibberish the congressman has received from the Herrons.
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