Airline pilot CtCer can't find a lawyer

[Doktor Avalanche]

It still all boils down to “It’s not that the ritual didn’t/doesn’t work, I/you just didn’t do it right. That is such a much better excuse than we wasted our time.

One of these days, the TP will incorrectly perform one of these "rituals" and the portal to hell will open allowing the vampire thong monkeys to rule our realm until the moron pays his taxes.

You really know how to give a guy disturbed sleep, don't you?

[Famspear]

Now we learn that Welzel's motives are not exactly pure (what a surprise):

I really know this is self-serving, but I really don't get very many opportunities to interact with a group that understand the truth with respect to the IRS.

The bottom line is that our government is out of control, and short of armed revolution, we all know that taking OUR money back is the shortest pathway back to sanity at the federal level. No body really thinks that the Founding Father's intended for the federal government to control over 50% of the economy, and yet, here we are. And won't next week be fun when the market responds to the federal bailout of freddie and fanny.

After having spent 26 years in the Marine Corps, I KNOW that the best defense to these gutless bas*ards is to attack, so that is what I did. I frankly don't care if my friends and family look at me as if I have three heads; I have to do this in order to look at myself in the mirror in the morning or in order to tell my grandchildren things really will be okay.

Now, however, is when the real push comes. When it appears darkest is the very moment when victory is snatched from the jaws of defeat, but not when we cower in fear.

For now, I have made an appeal on this forum, but it is but one of many tactics I have employed. I intend to release a number of videos on YouTube, on a variety of topics. I have contacted several legal organizations as well as the press, and have also toyed around with a legal strategy certain to make me the best friend my RO ever had.

Letter writing and appeals are necessary, but essentially useless. I know some have had victories, but I don't think they represent the norm, most of us get tangled in an endless administrative web certain to confuse and abuse and frustrate those involved. We need to FIGHT.

I absolutely encourage every one here to file 7433 cases in the DC Circuit. Its EASY. I will help anyone who wants to at no cost. I will provide all of my case documents and provide instructions regarding what worked and what didn't. It only cost $350 to file and most of you spent more than that answering the first couple of letters from the IRS.

The fact remains that prohibition was overturned becaue the DOJ had to deal with 17,000 lawsuits. Well, the DOJ has THREE attorneys handling tax cases in DC. Any of us from any state can file in DC, and imagine the impact of the court recieving tens of thousands of cases. In fact, when the DOJ received the 60th case they started whining about a "deluge of like cases."

Never underestimate the value of a fight.

Okay, I'm done venting now...

Cheers,
Bob
LtCol, USMC
Retired
But not receiving retirement pay -- because I would pay tax on that.

http://www.losthorizons.com/phpBB/viewt ... d4191#5831

(bolding added)

[wserra]

Now we learn that Welzel's motives are not exactly pure (what a surprise):

I frankly don't care if my friends and family look at me as if I have three heads

How about if they look at you as if you had no head at all? Would that matter?

Never underestimate the value of a fight.

$25,000 and/or a possible contempt citation, to be exact. Someone like this, who admits to litigating in bad faith, is asking for it.

[Nikki]

I wonder how Mr. innocent pro se guy is going to react when he walks into pre-trial discovery and finds out that everything he said on the Internet is going to be introduced as evidence?

He is going to learn a new word, very fast: SANCTIONS.

Tax Court is limited to $25,000 per case. However, the District and Appellate courts don't have a limit.

[Famspear]

I hate to be picky about such a well-written exposition, but I can't help but pointing out that Welzel's comments above include the marvelous statement that:

Letter writing and appeals are necessary, but essentially useless

Necessary.....

but useless.......

It has a certain ring to it.

"Necessary..... but useless......."

Biff: "Why are you doing that, Arnie?"

Arnie: "Well, Biff, it's necessary, but useless."

Biff: "Thanks for clearing that up."

[LPC]

I've sent the DOJ lawyer a link to the LH thread, so no one else need bother.

[LOBO]

Isn't it amazing what we can rationalize when it's in line with our predetermined beliefs...someone brought up the having a pilot's certificate to him and he found a very convenient way to sidestep it. Logically I could use the same argument to get out of about anything if he can get his idea to pass with someone ..

I'm surpised they haven't asked Pete for his interpretation since, you now, he's the one making all of this up.

[Famspear]

Welzel is really hot today. Excerpts from more of his posts:

Hi Woodwalker,

I'll admit, that the 7433 offer came to me while writing the email, so I don't have an outline in hand to provide. But let me start by saying if you are going to do a lawsuit, you need to get access to PACER; register here: http://pacer.psc.uscourts.gov/ once you've logged in you can find my case: the case number is 1:06CV00838.

[ . . . ]

Also, be advised that the cornerstone issue for the entire case was developed BEFORE I knew anything about CTC, and focuses on the fact that there is no valid assessment, and absent an assessment, their [sic] is no tax.

Honestly, with all of the very smart legal thinkers in this forum, I think we could actually come up with something better. I still think the assessment needs to stay the cornerstone issue, but I think all of the case work used to answer each of the DOJ various objections should be incorporated from the start. I also noticed that my case is too verbose and general in nature, I think if I were starting over I would have included many more details of MY circumstances.

Here is the final sentence in the minute order: "ORDERED that the Court's order entered on March 30, 2007, is VACATED in part, and that the plaintiffs' claims for damages pursuant to 26 U.S.C. § 7433 (2000) are REINSTATED. SO ORDERED this 28th day of March, 2008."

Please notice from this that is [sic] am the PLAINTIFF -- it might be a small thing to some, but most people when dealing with the IRS are defendents [sic], perspective is different from the other seat.

AND, finally, this should be a collective effort to MAKE THE ENEMY ACCOUNT FOR THEIR ACTIONS. It is almost like redressing the government for grievances. We have a right to get answers from the IRS and so far they simply ignore the questions. IF hundreds (or even thousands) of us file these lawsuit [sic] in the DC Circuit, the DOJ must answer. Section 7433 state [sic]:

"If, in connection with any collection of Federal tax with respect to a taxpayer, any officer or employee of the Internal Revenue Service recklessly or intentionally, or by reason of negligence, disregards any provision of this title, or any regulation promulgated under this title, such taxpayer may bring a civil action for damages against the United States in a district court of the United States. Except as provided in section 7432, such civil action shall be the exclusive remedy for recovering damages resulting from such actions."

[ . . . ]I am a citizen and the courts were designed to protect ME, so I offer to you folks all that I have and a willingness to help you use it. In other words, this is NOT provided for educational purposes, it's provided for BATTLE; if you are ready; FIGHTS ON!

If Janiece is reading, maybe one of the lawyers she referred to (in addition to helping me get my paycheck back...lol) would be willing to assist in developing a case based on the successes found in mine that all of us could use Pro Se.

Semper Fi my friends
For Freedom
Bob

And this:

Hi continentalarmy,

[ . . . ]I was serious when I SWORE to defend and protect the Constitution against ALL enemies foreign and DOMESTIC. The IRS (along with the Federal Reserve) are destroying our country. Perhaps they were the schemings of some other nefarious group, perhaps not, but nevertheless, they are the instrument and are consequently the ENEMY. I also used to think the individual emplyees [sic] are [sic] the IRS were "just doing their jobs." But no longer hold that opinion. They are UNAMERICAN, CRIMINAL SCUM and need to be attacked in every conceivable manner. I liken them to the Jews who were employed by the Nazis to herd other Jews into the gas chambers; THEY KNOW WHAT THEY ARE DOING.

Things we can do to attack the employees? First, let's introduce legislation [ . . . ]

Secondly, PUBLISH YouTube videos of any RO [revenue officer] or IRS employee you can find. Let EVERYONE know that these scum suckers make a living destroying America.

Third, if you have a picture of the RO that works your case (and if they use a pseudonym). Publish their picture in the local paper, and let the whole community know that they cheat, lie and steal to make a living of [sic] the backs of real Americans and help create the mess we are in today to include ever escalating FUEL and FOOD prices. Every underground in the history of warfare published the identities of collaborators, we should too.

Oh, and I can think of a few more "nice" things we can do to them as well, but I will reserve that until I have the process worked out.

[. . . .]Bob Welzel

http://www.losthorizons.com/phpBB/viewt ... c08e4#5853

(bolding added)

[Nikki]

If he keeps running his mouth, he's going to end up with a PDT tag on his acount and will start getting visits from ROs and RAs with armed escorts.

In any case, everything that he has babbled is going straight from his mouth to various attorney's ears.

[Judge Roy Bean]

If he keeps running his mouth, he's going to end up with a PDT tag on his acount and will start getting visits from ROs and RAs with armed escorts.

In any case, everything that he has babbled is going straight from his mouth to various attorney's ears.

"PDT" tag on his account?

Pardon it being late in a margarita afternoon but would you be so kind as to define the acronym 'PDT'?

[ASITStands]

PDT = Potentially Dangerous Taxpayer

http://www.irs.gov/irm/part25/ch04s01.html

As opposed to CAU = "Caution upon Contact" Taxpayer

http://www.irs.gov/irm/part25/ch04s02.html

Seems to be a substitute for the earlier TC 140 Hold is P, which stood for "tax protester."

[Nikki]

Au contraire.

P (as in Tax Protestor, which is a MAJOR nono) is significantly distinct from PDT.

For example:

P = Irwin Schiff

PDT = Ed Brown

Comprendez?

[Nikki]

I repeat, he is a disgrace to the uniform he wore and some grizzled old Corps combat officer needs to snap that clown's sword in half nad then permanently ban him from any and all Marine functions (whether US or some other nation's) - made a persona non grata vis-a-vis the US military.

Probably a Supply puke REMF who was a reservist........

As an officer (or at least on paper) isn't he subject to recall at any time?

Would the Commandant be interested in this jerk and the possibility of straightening him out properly?

[ASITStands]

Au contraire.

P (as in Tax Protestor, which is a MAJOR nono) is significantly distinct from PDT.

For example:

P = Irwin Schiff

PDT = Ed Brown

Comprendez?

Not always. Although I don't disagree with your taking exception.

I know two cases marked "PDT" who did nothing more than become non-filers, send frivolous arguments in response to notices and owned guns. Both were former Marines.

I could have phrased my earlier comment better.

Before the 1998 RRA, an account was marked "TC-140 Hold is P" when it belonged to a known tax protester, or someone who made frivolous arguments in response to notices and letters.

After the 1998 RRA, that practice was discontinued in favor of "PDT" and "CAU," both of which developed a bit later and ostensibly had nothing to do with tax protesting.

I won't argue with 'Nikki' since she's IRS. However, the above has been my experience.

[Demosthenes]

I know two cases marked "PDT" who did nothing more than become non-filers, send frivolous arguments in response to notices and owned guns. Both were former Marines.

It's my understanding that a rigorous investigation/documentation process goes on prior to getting the PDT label added to a file. Just being a former Marine wouldn't qualify at all.

[Famspear]

More from Robert Welzel at losthorizons:

[ . . . ]I think I am going to start this week by organizing a "legal attack fund" and try to assemble an organization to go after the IRS. Now I am all for restoring sanity to government, so I am looking at the fastest method for destroying the enemy: get the money.

My plan is to initially assemble a team to generate law suits to file in the DC Circuit. I think I can do this with one paid secretary (I will pay her $10 per week - a $10 gold American Eagle that is) 2 attorneys if I can find 2 that will annonymously [sic] consult gratis, and several paralegals to prepare the documents.

The team will do everything for someone desiring to file a lawsuit; prepare and serve the documents and keep track of everything. With the goal of getting 20,000 suits filed within 12 months of startup.

Additionally, I have a media firm in mind that can use the internet to advertise the effort nationwide and put together a number of fund raisers. I've spent ten or twenty thousand dollars on my suit, but my goal would be to do it for folks for next to nothing. I would want someone to pay the filing fees of $350 prior to filing and pay a membership fee of something nominal like 50 to 100 bucks per month.

I don't want to make money off this, I want to get thousands of suits filed, so if I can get the attorneys and paralegals to offer services while the group builds and can get members to agree to pay a very small recurring fee, I think we could successfully get thousands of people to defy the IRS, stop withholding federal taxes and tie the DOJ attorneys up in as many cases as I can.

I have worked with an organization that tried something similar, but they wanted to charge lots of money for the legal help. I think the more appropriate tactic is to do the legal work for next to nothing and jamb the system with paper.

[ . . . ]

We can get the system to reform. At last count I think I saw 4 or 5 hundred members to this forum. If each were able to file a case, it would represent almost 500 cases the DOJ in DC would be REQUIRED to answer. If each paid only $50 bucks per month, then I think we could not only do the legal work, but could probably answer EVERY IRS letter for each client as well so that each of us would have professional assistance while we were working the cases.

I am serious about initiating this! To start I need at least one attorney (who would remain nameless so that the courts wouldn't sanction them) willing to consult so that the cases could be built using my case as a reference. I would be willing to do the paralegal work, but finding a paralegal in Alaska would be a bonus. And I would hire a secretary to take care of the paperwork. Initially, the secretary would be the only one who would have to be paid and since it would be part time I am figuring $250 per week. So, I would need commitments from at least 20 people out of the entire nation to pay $50 per month for suit assistance.

I am very curious to know what you all think. Frankly, many in the Patriot comminity [sic] or the "tax honesty" community are divided philisophically [sic] and consequently are ineffective as a movement. I am suggesting that we put aside some of those differences so that we can prosecute a strategy that will cetainly [sic] have an impact. I can guarantee it will attract national media attention, and will certainly require the DOJ and the IRS to respond.

Please let me know, because I am ready to move on this. I am fed up with the IRS continually having the upper hand when we are RIGHT.

I must have gotten some rest today because I am venting again.
Cheers,
Bob

http://www.losthorizons.com/phpBB/viewt ... =5890#5890

(bolding added).

[Gregg]

Great idea Bob! We can teach ourselves anything a lawyer knows!
Sounds like exactly what Petes Offensive fund is supposed to be for.
Looks like the two of you should get together and talk stategy

bolding added


Methinks this little revolution just might get squashed now by the blowhard in chief, can't have someone asking for money that they may otherwise send to him.

[Imalawman]

Great idea Bob! We can teach ourselves anything a lawyer knows!
Sounds like exactly what Petes Offensive fund is supposed to be for.
Looks like the two of you should get together and talk stategy

bolding added


Methinks this little revolution just might get squashed now by the blowhard in chief, can't have someone asking for money that they may otherwise send to him.

I know its wrong of me to think this, but I'm willing to bet that the "Offensive Fund" is mostly gone now. My guess is that it went into Pete's personal account....

[Famspear]

Wait, let me guess: Welzel's wife just happens to be a great secretary, and would end up being the best secretary he could find. So, he wants five hundred suckers at lost horizons (oops, I mean 500 Patriots at losthorizons) to join up, at $50 per month. That's $50 per month or $600 per year times 500 sucker- er I mean Patriots - or $300,000 per year in gross receipts.

Of course, he'll have to pay his secretary.

Random thoughts:

I wonder if the PeterEricBlowhardMeister minds if Welzel uses the losthorizons forum in this way.

I think I'll hold my breath and wait to see how many loserheads actually send Welzel $50 a month.

Just have the smelling salts close by.

[Famspear]

Oh, OK, nnnnowwwww I understand Welzel when he writes:

so I am looking at the fastest method for destroying the enemy: get the money.

The "enemy" is the IRS.

But "the money" he's talking about is YOUR money, loserheads!!!

EDIT: You know, this could turn into an Epic Super Hero Comic Book Style battle between two Infinitely Powerful But Opposing Cosmic Forces: (A) the gullibility of the average loserhead, and (B) the average loserhead's unwillingness to part with any of his or her own money for the purpose of aiding anyone other than himself/herself.