Federal reserve notes are unconstitutional

[Gregg]

Gee, TUC, how's your little bank robbery like publicity event going for you?

Who let the patients out of their rooms?

[.]

Hey, as long as Van Pelt is persona non grata we have to make do with the comedian du jour.

Better than nothing, but not by much.

[.]

Here's some useful info for the TUCers:

* How do I bond out an inmate?
* When are Fugitive Extradition hearings held?
* What is Pretrial Release?
* Once a person is released, what additional function does Pretrial Release serve?
* Is there any other way for persons to be released before their trial?
* How can I leave clothing for an inmate?
* How to leave money for inmate accounts?
* How can I leave money for an inmate?
* What is inmate commissary?

http://www.miamidade.gov/corrections/co ... ns_faq.asp

They may also want to check the federal Bureau of Prisons site, as it may also wind up in play.

http://www.bop.gov/inmate_locator/index.jsp

[Red Cedar PM]

I wanted to try out this tax evasion argument.

Nice. Guess we can't fault the guy for being honest about what he is trying to do.

[Judge Roy Bean]

Here's some useful info for the TUCers:

* How do I bond out an inmate?

With FRNs. In TUC's cases, lots of them.

[Joey Smith]

The Court ruled against TUC on all counts, and basically held that they are a fake (surprise, surprise); will post something shortly.

[TUC]

Hey Guys!!, more bad news coming your way.

Monday, 28 July 2008 13:24
Ben Bernanke’s Hush Money
by Gary NorthThis

The bailout of IndyMac’s depositors will probably deplete 10% of the FDIC’s reserves.

Congress will back up the FDIC if the FDIC ever (1) runs out of T-bills to sell (2) to raise money (3) to pay off depositors of insolvent banks. But where will Congress get this money? From the Federal Reserve System, if lenders will not fork over the money.

The Federal Reserve System backs up Congress. This is the heart of the threat to the solvency of the dollar.

The $4 billion that the FDIC will pay to a handful of depositors at IndyMac is hush money. It is paid to them to silence every other depositor in the country. "Don’t spread rumors about any insolvent bank." Why not? "Because, in a fractionally reserved system, all of them are technically insolvent." They are all borrowed short and lent long.

NO PANIC . . . YET
The failure of IndyMac this month was unique. We have not seen a bank failure this large since 1984. In one sense, this reminded the general public that individual banks can go bankrupt.

read more at http://theunitedcities.org/index.php?op ... 50:economy

Also,

Failed Bank List
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The FDIC is often appointed as receiver for failed banks. This page contains useful information for the customers and vendors of these banks. This includes information on the acquiring bank (if applicable), how your accounts and loans are affected, and how vendors can file claims against the receivership.

This list includes banks which have failed since October 1, 2000.

http://www.fdic.gov/bank/individual/fai ... klist.html


have no fear, TUC is here

Sincerely,

The Untouchable Constitution.

[Mr. Mephistopheles]

... BTW, nothing keeps you from paying your taxes in rolls of silver dollars, quarters, dimes, etc., or as others have pointed out in cutting a check.

A less attractive alternative would be for "triangle" to continue to stand by the paytridiot -(thanks Famspear)- nonsense, not file his returns and eventually run egregiously afoul of the IRS. At that point I'm sure the IRS would be willing to accept some portion of his assets as a barter payment for his taxes owed all with no FRN's involved.

[SteveSy]

Article I, Section 8, clause 5 declares that Congress has the power "To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof...." Without more that would seem to give Congress the power to declare that "federal reserve notes" are "money."

And Article I, Section 10, states that "No State shall .. coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts...."

That the power given to Congress "to coin Money" in section 8 was not limited to "gold and silver" and that Congress was not prohibited from emitting "Bills of Credit" bothsuggest that Congress was not limited in the way that the States were limited by Section 10.

Just trying to understand your logic here and by default the courts. I assume you're basing this theory on what you've read.

make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts

So, is it your position that they can coin money with any metal or paper, only States can't coin money "a tender in payment of debts" or are you saying the U.S. can't do it but as long as they have someone else do it then its just fine?

What exactly does the quote above mean to you?

As a side note here is what was said about legal tender currency in the debates rattifying the constitution.

Mr. MERCER 2ded. & on [FN18] question

N. H. no. Mas. ay. Ct. no. N. J. no. Pena. no. Del. ay. Md. ay. Va. ay. N. C. no. S. C. ay. Geo. ay. [FN19]

Mr. Govr. MORRIS moved to strike out "and emit bills on the credit of the U. States"-If the United States had credit such bills would be unnecessary: if they had not, unjust & useless.

Mr. BUTLER, 2ds. the motion.

Mr. MADISON, will it not be sufficient to prohibit the making them a tender? This will remove the temptation to emit them with unjust views. And promissory notes in that shape may in some emergencies be best.

Mr. Govr. MORRIS. striking out the words will leave room still for notes of a responsible minister which will do all the good without the mischief. The Monied interest will oppose the plan of Government, if paper emissions be not prohibited.

Mr. GHORUM was for striking out, without inserting any prohibition. if the words stand they may suggest and lead to the measure.

Col. [FN20] MASON had doubts on the subject. Congs. he thought would not have the power unless it were expressed. Though he had a mortal hatred to paper money, yet as he could not foresee all emergences, he was unwilling to tie the hands of the Legislature. He observed that the late war could not have been carried on, had such a prohibition existed.

Mr. GHORUM. The power as far as it will be necessary or safe, is involved in that of borrowing.

Mr. MERCER was a friend to paper money, though in the present state & temper of America, he should neither propose nor approve of such a measure. He was consequently opposed to a prohibition of it altogether. It will stamp suspicion on the Government to deny it a discretion on this point. It was impolitic also to excite the opposition of all those who were friends to paper money. The people of property would be sure to be on the side of the plan, and it was impolitic to purchase their further attachment with the loss of the opposite class of Citizens

Mr. ELSEWORTH thought this a favorable moment to shut and bar the door against paper money. The mischiefs of the various experiments which had been made, were now fresh in the public mind and had excited the disgust of all the respectable part of America. By witholding the power from the new Governt. more friends of influence would be gained to it than by almost any thing else. Paper money can in no case be necessary. Give the Government credit, and other resources will offer. The power may do harm, never good.

Mr. RANDOLPH, notwithstanding his antipathy to paper money, could not agree to strike out the words, as he could not foresee all the occasions which [FN21] might arise.

Mr. WILSON. It will have a most salutary influence on the credit of the U. States to remove the possibility of paper money. This expedient can never succeed whilst its mischiefs are remembered, and as long as it can be resorted to, it will be a bar to other resources.

Mr. BUTLER. remarked that paper was a legal tender in no Country in Europe. He was urgent for disarming the Government of such a power.

Mr. MASON was still averse to tying the hands of the Legislature altogether. If there was no example in Europe as just remarked, it might be observed on the other side, that there was none in which the Government was restrained on this head.

Mr. READ, thought the words, if not struck out, would be as alarming as the mark of the Beast in Revelations.

Mr. LANGDON had rather reject the whole plan than retain the three words "(and emit bills")

On the motion for striking out

N. H. ay. Mas. ay. Ct ay. N. J. no. Pa. ay. Del. ay. Md. no. Va. ay. [FN23] N. C. ay. S. C. ay. Geo. ay. [FN22]

The clause for borrowing money, [FN25] agreed to nem. con.

Adjd. FN1 The word "the" is here inserted in the transcript.

FN2 The phrase "it was agreed to" is here inserted in the transcript.

FN3 In the transcript the vote reads: "New Hampshire, Connecticut, Pennsylvania, Delaware, Maryland, Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia, aye-9; New Jetsey, no-1; Massachusetts, not present."

FN4 See ante.

FN5 The words "was then" are here in inserted in the transcript.

FN6 The word "that" is here inserted in the transcript.

FN7 The figures "1" and "2" are changed in the transcript to "First" and "Secondly."

FN8 The words "laying taxes on" are substituted in the transcript for "taxing."

FN9 The figures "3" and "4" are changed in the transcript to Thirdly" and "Fourthly."

FN10 The figure "5" is changed in the transcript to "And finally."

FN11 The word "are" is substituted in the transcript for "were."

FN12 This phrase was erroncously copied in the transcript as "Article 1, Section 1," but was corrected when printed.

FN13 The words "was then" are here inserted in the transcript.

FN14 The word "The" is here inserted in the transcript.

FN15 The word "was" is here inserted in the transcript.

FN16 In the transcript these three lines are changed to read as follows: "Several clauses,-for coining money-for regulating foreign coin,-for fixing the standard of weights and measures,-were agreed to, nem. Con."

FN17 The words "The clause" are here inserted in the transcript.

FN18 The word "the" is here inserted in the transcript.

FN19 In the transcript the vote reads: "Massachusetts, Delaware, Maryland, Virginia, South Carolina, Georgia, aye-6; New Hampshire, Connecticut, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, North Carolina, no-5."

FN20 The word "Mr." is substituted in the transcript for "Col."

FN21 The word "that" is substituted in the transcript for "which."

FN22 In the transcript the vote reads: "New Hampshire, Massachusetts, Connecticut, Pennsylvania, Delaware, Virginia, [FN*] North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia, aye-9; New Jersey, Maryland, no-2."

FN23 This vote in the affirmative by Virga. was occasioned by the acquiescence of Mr. Madison who became satisfied that striking out the words would not disable the Govt. from the use of public notes as far as they could be safe & proper; & would only cut off the pretext for a paper currency, [FN24] and particularly for making the bills a tender [FN24] either for public or private debts.

FN24 The transcript italicizes the words "paper currency" and "a tender."

FN25 The word "was" is here inserted in the transcript.

http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/debates/816.htm

[Lambkin]

As seen on CNN. Interesting term, that: "finance group".

Miami judge issues injunction for finance group
Miami judge issues injunction against finance group seeking $15 billion from Bank of America
July 25, 2008: 02:38 PM EST

NEW YORK (Associated Press) - A Miami federal judge on Friday toughened an order against a group that promotes its own currency and says it wants to seize control of Bank of America and more than $15 billion from its branches.

U.S. District Judge Alan Gold in Miami issued a preliminary injunction against The United Cities Group Inc. Gold had previously issued a temporary restraining order.

During the hearing, Bank of America attorney Mary Leslie Smith told Gold that earlier this month armed guards dressed in black entered two South Florida branches, blocked exits and tried to seize the bank's assets on behalf of the group.

The group claims it has set up an independent U.S. banking and currency system. Court documents show that the Federal Reserve and Treasury Department have issued several fraud and worthless instrument alerts regarding TUC.

H. William Marrero, acting as TUC's lawyer, tried to introduce its head Angel Cruz as "chairman of the United States" and Gladstone Gardner as "vice chairman of the United States." Marrero also challenged Gold's jurisdiction to hear the case, but the judge refused to let him speak because he isn't a licensed attorney.

Marrero said later TUC has $357 billion in assets and posted a $15.25 billion appeal bond.

[Famspear]

Hey Guys!!, more bad news coming your way.

Oh, there's bad news a-comin' fella. But it ain't what you think. And it ain't what you wuz hopin' fer.

[SteveSy]

FN23 This vote in the affirmative by Virga. was occasioned by the acquiescence of Mr. Madison who became satisfied that striking out the words would not disable the Govt. from the use of public notes as far as they could be safe & proper; & would only cut off the pretext for a paper currency, [FN24] and particularly for making the bills a tender [FN24] either for public or private debts.

http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/debates/816.htm

It seems to me the people writing the constitution purposely intended to make unconstitutional exactly what people here claim is constitutional.

btw, I do not advocate for people not to pay taxes because taxes collected in federal reserve notes is unconstitutional.

[webhick]

have no fear, TUC is here

Yeah, blocking the exits with armed guards.

[sarcasm]You know, I read somewhere that people trapped inside a bank during an armed robbery always feel perfectly at ease[/sarcasm]

I wonder if TUC could be persuaded into playing Grand Theft Auto for his kicks instead of terrorizing innocent people.

[The Observer]

H. William Marrero, acting as TUC's lawyer, tried to introduce its head Angel Cruz as "chairman of the United States" and Gladstone Gardner as "vice chairman of the United States." Marrero also challenged Gold's jurisdiction to hear the case, but the judge refused to let him speak because he isn't a licensed attorney.

This is another perfect example of why I could never support these fringe groups - total lack of imagination and creativity in assigning titles to its members. "Chairman of the United States", indeed. I know certain third-graders that could come up with much better titles during their morning snack break. Whoever was the idiot who decided that "chairman of the United States" was an appropriate title for TUC's head fraudster was probably the same person who sold "private attorney general" to PAM.

[LPC]

But just because the court strikes down a claim does not make that claim invalid. It just may be the case that the court is wrong, or illegitimate.

Actually, because a court strikes down a claim DOES make that claim invalid.

And, in thinking about this, it dawned on me that tax protesters think about courts and legislatures in two entirely different ways.

It would be silly to say that, "Just because a legislature enacts a statute doesn't make the statute valid, or legitimate," because obviously (assuming that all procedural formalities are met) the enactments of a legislature *ARE* legitimate, and have the force of law. Just because we disagree with a legislative act doesn't make the legislative act invalid or unforceable.

And yet tax protesters believe that, if they disagree with a court, the decisions of the court can simply be disregarded or ignored.

Courts and legislatures obviously deal with different kinds of decisions, and work in different ways, and yet court decisions are a form of law, just like statutes, while tax protesters like to think of them as editorial opinions that can be accepted or rejected.

Part of the problem may be the politicization of the judicial system. From Reagan (perhaps Nixon) onward, conservatives have made it their goal to dominate the judiciary, and to control a majority of the Supreme Court. And both the rhetoric of the right and the opinions of the most conservative members of the court (e.g., Scalia and Thomas) have made it clear that they believe that constitutional law is simply a numbers game: When you have five votes you get to do whatever you want, historical precedent (and Electoral College) be damned.

I sometimes wonder if (at least at the Supreme Court level) we are witnessing the death of stare decisis.

[Randall]

Therefore, federal reserve notes are not legal currency, and since taxes are requested in federal reserve notes, taxes are not legal.

OK, I get it. Since FRN are illegal, so is paying for taxes with FRNs.
What do I make of purchases of food, clothing, gas, hookers, etc. with FRNs? Are those transactions illegal also or just taxes? If they are illegal what does that make the parties to such a transaction?

[Famspear]

Any one who thinks FRNs are illegal can PM me and I will provide you with an address where you can send all those naughty FRNs to be disposed of properly. Trust me.

Hey, wait, wait, wait -- MY DELUXE FEDERAL RESERVE NOTE DISPOSAL SERVICE is MUCH more efficient that the Captain's! Send your illegal notes to MEEEE instead! I'll even pay for the postage!

[Imalawman]

Any one who thinks FRNs are illegal can PM me and I will provide you with an address where you can send all those naughty FRNs to be disposed of properly. Trust me.

Hey, wait, wait, wait -- MY DELUXE FEDERAL RESERVE NOTE DISPOSAL SERVICE is MUCH more efficient that the Captain's! Send your illegal notes to MEEEE instead! I'll even pay for the postage!

I want to let you all in on the ground floor of my new business. Its the New Federal Reserve Company, Inc. What I offer is a federal reserve note retirement service. For the average patriot, choosing between the various FRN disposal services can be tricky and can lead to excessive liberty dollar fees. It is imperative that we "retire" FRNs as soon as possible. This means choosing the best disposal service possible. Because I deal directly with the disposal service providers, there is no cost to you. I simply take a cut of the disposal service's fees. Do not let your FRNs fall into the wrong company's hands. Use the New Federal Reserve Company, Inc.'s services today!

[Evil Squirrel Overlord]

Any one who thinks FRNs are illegal can PM me and I will provide you with an address where you can send all those naughty FRNs to be disposed of properly. Trust me.

Beat me to it.

[Famspear]

[picking myself up off the floor....] It is threads like this that remind me why I like to read the Quatloos forum so much.

The Quatloos forum......
Much more fun than real life.......

(Well, more fun that SOME PARTS of real life, anyway.)