CaptainKickback wrote:Any one who thinks FRNs are illegal can PM me and I will provide you with an address where you can send all those naughty FRNs to be disposed of properly. Trust me.
U.S. Customs personnel already offer that service. This guy beat you all to the punch. Perhaps that will be his newest "explanation" for the millions in moldy FRN's he's been trying to exchange. viewtopic.php?f=16&t=2789
Attention all patriots! Don't be taken in by the preceding offers pretending to be generous by taking in your worthless FRNS and "retiring them". Don't be fooled by their "bonuses" of free shipping and/or postage. These pretenders are just taking advantage of your toil and sweat and refuse to even acknowledge the pain and suffering you went through over the years in accumulating all that worthless paper. The bottom line is that they don't care how bad you got ripped off in participating in the Federal Reserve scheme.
But here at OBEM, Inc*, we do care about the toil and turmoil you have been through, we understand the pain at being hoodwinked by those barons of deceit at the Treasury. So that is why we will purchase those useless FRN's and give you a chance to recover some of your lost wealth!
How does this work? Very simple - we give you coins in exhange for those FRNS! Coins have intrinsic worth due to the metal that is used in the coinage process. Everyone knows that the price of copper has dramatically increased over the years, prompting people to scramble for even scrap metal and wire to reclaim copper's value. Even thieves are breaking into buildings and utility poles to scavenge the wiring inside for its worth. And by you exchanging your illegal FRNS for copper, you will be ahead of the game!
Some of the more informed patriots out there may be asking, wouldn't it be better to exchange my FRNs for Libbies - those are silver? And aren't US coins really FRNS? At one time it might have been a good idea but the federal bandits have closed that option down - Libbies have become too heavy of a risk to invest in. But with OBEM's plan, there is no risk of your copper being confiscated - because it is supported by the Feds! That's right - you use the Treasury's illicit conspiracy against them!
So what do you need to do to start recovering your wealth? Just start sending in your FRN's and within 10-14 days BEM will forward you United States one-cent pieces according to the following schedule:
$1 to $10 = 10% of value in one-cent pieces ("pennies")
$11 to $20 = 15%
$21 to $50 = 20%
$51 to $100 = 25%
$101 to $500 = 30%
$501 and above = 35%
As you can see, it pays to redeem your FRNs in the largest amounts possible - and soon as possible! Because within two weeks, you will receive a sturdy cardboard box full of valuable copper pieces** that you can immediately begin to spend legally and without fear of a Blackhawk helicopter whisking you away to a UN concentration camp! And the best bonus of all is you recoup some of your lost wealth - something that none of our competitors are offering you! (Did I mention that even if the government tried to render your pennies worthless by eliminating the penny from US currency, you can still melt your pennies down and recover their worth at a recycling center?)
So don't procastinate or put off taking advantage of this opportunity to enrich your family and yourself, to recover from the long-term damage of the FRN conspiracy and to look forward to a bright future. Send in your FRNS and get something back in return - what rightfully belonged to you in the first place!
*One Born Every Minute, Inc.
** OBEM reserves the right to substitute other currency for US one-cent pieces ("pennies) if or when shortages occur. Other substituted currency can include but not limited to Zimbabwean currency, Amero dollars or Bills of Exhchanges. No refunds or exchanges will be allowed in these situations.
"I could be dead wrong on this" - Irwin Schiff
"Do you realize I may even be delusional with respect to my income tax beliefs? " - Irwin Schiff
United Cities leaders take on Bank of America in dispute over $15B
Victor Manuel Ramos | Sentinel Staff Writer
July 29, 2008
First, Angel Cruz issued his "private dollar," saying it would rival U.S. money.
Then his United Cities company paid employees with invalid checks it printed.
Now his company is fighting the largest U.S. retail bank.
Cruz -- whose company triggered a federal fraud alert when Kissimmee-based employees deposited its invalid checks last year -- was arrested while trying to take over a Bank of America branch his group targeted in Miami.
Cruz and his supporters, now operating as The United Cities Group, claim that Bank of America owes them more than $15 billion because it blocked drafts for large sums of money requested through a "United Cities" bank.
They showed up at a Miami branch with armed guards earlier this month to execute what police said was a fake court order issued by a non-existent judge.
The incident led to new investigations by the Miami-Dade Police Department and the U.S. Secret Service.
"One of the aspects of our investigation will include the alleged counterfeit negotiables that have been associated with Mr. Cruz," said Jim Glendinning, supervisor of the Secret Service's Orlando field office.
A Bank of America spokeswoman would not comment, but the bank filed a lawsuit against United Cities. And federal judge Alan S. Gold ruled Friday, telling the group to stop "from attempting to defraud Bank of America, or otherwise harassing Bank of America in any manner."
In a YouTube video, Cruz and his associates announced plans to take on the bank. In the video, a bespectacled Cruz declares that "we are going to start seizing some of the Bank of America buildings" and that they "would not allow any bank officer to walk into the bank."
On July 8, they went to the Miami branch with an order from "The United Cities Group Circuit Court," a private court set up for the company.
"It makes it so much easier," said Mark Pitcavage, a research director for the Anti-Defamation League that investigates fringe groups. "If you have your own banks, your own courts and your own judges, it streamlines the process."
United Cities, Pitcavage said, uses "a lot of the same tactics of sovereign citizen and tax-protest groups" who think the government is an evil conspiracy.
Cruz and an associate, Gladstone Gardner, both of Miami, were arrested. Each faces a misdemeanor trespass charge for the Bank of America takeover attempt. Their arraignments are scheduled for Aug. 19. Cruz would not comment and Gardner could not be reached.
Bill Marrero, who represented United Cities in U.S. District Court despite not being an attorney, defended the group's approach.
"They said the drafts were bogus, that there was no money in the account and that we know we were transacting bogus instruments, but that was false," Marrero said. "I believe they are trying to destroy our value in the marketplace."
Hi all. First time poster... er, short time lurker, but long time admirer of Tax Protester insanity. Love the forum, love Quatloos, and really love the Tax Protester FAQ. Just well-written and a lot of fun.
I wanted to jump into this discussion yesterday, but waited too long (topic changed and got moved). But what the hell. TriangleChoke may find his way back.
You tend to see something like this quote from every protester who is attempting to "reasonably discuss" whatever bizarre theory he's come up with:
Now, my question is: is this argument valid? I'm not asking if the court would agree with me, which they obviously wouldn't. Just if it's valid.
There's the whole problem in a nutshell. Triangle, asking whether your constitutional argument is valid but saying that you don't want to hear whether the courts would agree with you is like asking people to mathematically prove to you that the world is round but that you don't want to hear any physics. If the courts don't agree with you, your argument is not valid. That's the beginning and end of the analysis. Trust me - I'm a lawyer, I know. The fact that your "argument" about the legitimacy of federal reserve notes is independently ridiculous is almost beside the point.
OK, that's the shooting ducks in a barrel part of this post. I was hesitating about posting the second half, because there seems to be some strong feelings on this here, but I'd like to at least touch on the other argument on this thread.
There have been a few posters who have suggested that the politicization of the judicial system is a zero-sum game - that both political parties have participated in it equally, and that it isn't any worse now than it's been before.
Guys, I wish that were true, and I wish it fervently, but it just isn't. Acting cynical about this - "oh, all administrations act this way" - is a good way to sit back and watch the country fall apart. This administration has politicized the judicial system in ways no other has. Take a look at http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/29/washi ... ref=slogin. Remember, this is not a "liberal paper" blowing something out of proportion. This is an internal Justice Department report.
Not only has the administration staffed the Justice Department with underqualified attorneys based on whether they were Republican (and fired qualified attorneys that they suspected were not,) but it actually staffed the Justice Department based on whether or not the applicant supported George Bush specifically. If you think that that is "politics as usual," you really, really need to study up more. Trust me, it isn't. It's way beyond the pale. Saying otherwise is extremely ignorant, and I don't use that word lightly. The situation is far worse now than in the past, and needs to be addressed on those terms.
Once upon a time I thought the subject of the thread was whether FRNs were constitutional! Someone said they were, and someone else said they weren't, and discussion of the legal system ensued, which somehow or other led to the opinions about a divided supreme Court.
I have no idea how the TUC posts became part of the thread! I didn't follow that very well.
Someone decided the thread was more appropriate in 'Ranting and Raving,' and here we are. I'm not sure we've decided anything except how to be silly, disagreeable or something.
By the way, welcome to the forum, and are we to receive some good Italian recipes?
By the way, welcome to the forum, and are we to receive some good Italian recipes?
That's the only kind I have!
And thanks for the welcome. Looks to be a lot of fun - interesting topic, combining law, sociology and abnormal psychology. Can't wait. Wish the FRN issue was still going, though. I've gone through the archives a bit - tax protesters don't ask questions here nearly enough, and that's what I wanted to address. I should have left the political stuff alone until I had a few more posts under my belt. Well, live and learn.
Tax Protesters get beat up pretty quickly here, and that scares them from posting. It also leads to a rather less than appealing reputation on other forums, but I'm not sure we care.
It's sort of a hobby of some to parse and reparse tax protester theories, and with some, it's also part of the work they do, whether at the federal or state levels. Many posters have faced various protest theories in litigation, and others are just simply morbidly interested.
From time to time, someone provides a bit of entertainment before quitting. Some of us have been beat up ourselves but lived to tell about it, and all in all, it's an interesting place.
Hope you enjoy your time here. And, don't forget the recipes.
....
I have no idea how the TUC posts became part of the thread! I didn't follow that very well.
Cruz's scam is in part, based on his assertion that the present system (Federal Reserve and FRNs) can be bypassed when and where you want to bypass them.
Then of course, when you need them, you simply deposit your own bogus instruments in a bank like BofA and expect them to give you FRN's when you write checks on the account. When the bank catches on, you take them to your own court, draft up a whacko document, march around in the bank and make an ass of yourself on YouTube and in court.
Then you have some dim bulb (i.e., TUC) post inane blather on a site that does not suffer fools gladly.
My understanding is that Cruz has a habit of starting companies with grandiose plans and elaborate-sounding names, somehow convincing seemingly rational people that his new world 'private money' worker's paradise will catch on. I think the theory is if you get enough businesses and people trading in your currency in your own little bank, the legitimate system will have to trade with you.
The Honorable Judge Roy Bean The world is a car and you're a crash-test dummy. The Devil Makes Three
Judge Roy Bean wrote:Cruz's scam is in part, based on his assertion that the present system (Federal Reserve and FRNs) can be bypassed when and where you want to bypass them.
Actually, I understood that. What I didn't understand was why it wasn't posted in the TUC thread? As it turned out, it made it more difficult to follow the FRNs unconstitutional thread.
Oh well, it's all been straightened out, and we're back following the bouncing ball.
President Kennedy, the Federal Reserve
and Executive Order 11110
by Cedric X.
From The Final Call, Vol15, No.6, on January 17, 1996 (USA)
On June 4, 1963, a little known attempt was made to strip the Federal Reserve Bank of its power to loan money to the government at interest. On that day President John F. Kennedy signed Executive Order No. 11110 that returned to the U.S. government the power to issue currency, without going through the Federal Reserve. Mr. Kennedy's order gave the Treasury the power "to issue silver certificates against any silver bullion, silver, or standard silver dollars in the Treasury." This meant that for every ounce of silver in the U.S. Treasury's vault, the government could introduce new money into circulation. In all, Kennedy brought nearly $4.3 billion in U.S. notes into circulation. The ramifications of this bill are enormous.
With the stroke of a pen, Mr. Kennedy was on his way to putting the Federal Reserve Bank of New York out of business. If enough of these silver certificats were to come into circulation they would have eliminated the demand for Federal Reserve notes. This is because the silver certificates are backed by silver and the Federal Reserve notes are not backed by anything. Executive Order 11110 could have prevented the national debt from reaching its current level, because it would have given the gevernment the ability to repay its debt without going to the Federal Reserve and being charged interest in order to create the new money. Executive Order 11110 gave the U.S. the ability to create its own money backed by silver.
After Mr. Kennedy was assassinated just five months later, no more silver certificates were issued. The Final Call has learned that the Executive Order was never repealed by any U.S. President through an Executive Order and is still valid. Why then has no president utilized it? Virtually all of the nearly $6 trillion in debt has been created since 1963, and if a U.S. president had utilized Executive Order 11110 the debt would be nowhere near the current level. Perhaps the assassination of JFK was a warning to future presidents who would think to eliminate the U.S. debt by eliminating the Federal Reserve's control over the creation of money. Mr. Kennedy challenged the government of money by challenging the two most successful vehicles that have ever been used to drive up debt - war and the creation of money by a privately-owned central bank. His efforts to have all troops out of Vietnam by 1965 and Executive Order 11110 would have severely cut into the profits and control of the New York banking establishment. As America's debt reaches unbearable levels and a conflict emerges in Bosnia that will further increase America's debt, one is force to ask, will President Clinton have the courage to consider utilizing Executive Order 11110 and, ifso, is he willing to pay the ultimate price for doing so?
Executive Order 11,110
AMENDMENT OF EXECUTIVE ORDER NO. 10289
AS AMENDED, RELATING TO THE PERFORMANCE OF CERTAIN FUNCTIONS AFFECTING THE DEPARTMENT OF THE TREASURY
By virtue of the authority vested in me by section 301 of title 3 of the United States Code, it is ordered as follows:
Section 1. Executive Order No. 10289 of September 19, 1951, as amended, is hereby further amended-By adding at the end of paragraph 1 thereof the following subparagraph (j):
(j) The authority vested in the President by paragraph (b) of section 43 of the Act of May 12,1933, as amended (31 U.S.C.821(b)), to issue silver certificates against any silver bullion, silver, or standard silver dollars in the Treasury not then held for redemption of any outstanding silver certificates, to prescribe the denomination of such silver certificates, and to coin standard silver dollars and subsidiary silver currency for their redemption
and --
Byrevoking subparagraphs (b) and (c) of paragraph 2 thereof.
Sec. 2. The amendments made by this Order shall not affect any act done, or any right accruing or accrued or any suit or proceeding had or commenced in any civil or criminal cause prior to the date of this Order but all such liabilities shall continue and may be enforced as if said amendments had not been made.
John F. Kennedy
The White House,
June 4, 1963.
Well, yeah I think FRN is not just unconstitutional, but illegal too. Why pay a private corporation like "Federal Reserve" the right to print money. I am guessing that you all know that the Federal Reserve is a private company.. right guys? THEY PRINT IT - WE BORROW IT AND PAY THEM INTEREST. WHY???
We shall start with the need for money. The Federal Government, having spent more than it has taken from its citizens in taxes, needs, for the sake of illustration, $1,000,000,000. Since it does not have the money, and Congress has given away its authority to "create" it, the Government must go the "creators" for the $1 billion. But, the Federal Reserve, a private corporation, doesn't just give its money away! The Bankers are willing to deliver $1,000,000,000 in money or credit to the Federal Government in exchange for the Government's agreement to pay it back - with interest! So Congress authorizes the Treasury Department to print $1,000,000,000 in U.S. Bonds, which are then delivered to the Federal Reserve Bankers.
The Federal Reserve then pays the cost of printing the $1,000,000,000 (about $1,000) and makes the exchange. The Government then uses the money to pay its obligations. What are the results of this fantastic transaction? Well, $1 billion in Government bills are paid all right, but the Government has now indebted the people to the Bankers for $1 billion on which the people must pay interest! Tens of thousands of such transactions have taken place since 1913 so that by the 1980's, the U.S. Government is indebted. to the Bankers for over $1,000,000,000,000 (trillion) on which the people pay over $100 billion a year in interest alone with no hope of ever paying off the principal. Supposedly our children and following generations will pay forever and forever!
Last edited by TUC on Wed Jul 30, 2008 12:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
E.O. 11,110 did not create authority to issue new silver certificates, it only affected who could give the order. The purpose of the order was to facilitate the reduction of certificates in circulation, not to increase them. In October 1964 the Treasury ceased issuing them entirely. The Coinage Act of 1965 (PL 89-81) ended the practice of using silver in most U.S. coins, and in 1968 Congress ended the redeemability of silver certificates (PL 90-29). E.O. 11,110 was never reversed by President Johnson and remained on the books until 1987 when there was a general cleaning-up of executive orders (E.O. 12,608, 9/9/87). However, by this time the remaining legislative authority behind E.O. 11,110 had been repealed by Congress with PL 97-258 in 1982.2
In summary, E.O. 11,110 did not create new authority to issue additional silver certificates. In fact, its intention was to ease the process for their removal so that small denomination Federal Reserve Notes could replace them in accordance with a law Kennedy himself signed. If Kennedy had really sought to reduce Federal Reserve power, then why did he sign a bill that gave the Fed still more power?
TUC wrote:....
Well, yeah I think FRN is not just unconstitutional, but illegal too. Why pay a private corporation like "Federal Reserve" the right to print money. I am guessing that you all know that the Federal Reserve is a private company.. right guys? THEY PRINT IT - WE BORROW IT AND PAY THEM INTEREST. WHY???....
Troll, please apply any of that to something that has anything to do with anything in the real world. And while you're at it, try to blend in something that will make it easier to understand, i.e., why men have never walked on the moon and chemtrails. Toss in some black helicopters and shape-shifting lizards and you might attract a few more noobs. And to really top it off, drum up some stories about how your acolytes used your nutball theories to actually make something happen other than wasting Internet bandwidth spreading the BS.
The Honorable Judge Roy Bean The world is a car and you're a crash-test dummy. The Devil Makes Three
TUC wrote:Judge Roy Bean, is Federal Reserve a private company?? yes or no.
Who owns the Federal Reserve?
The Federal Reserve System is not "owned" by anyone and is not a private, profit-making institution. Instead, it is an independent entity within the government, having both public purposes and private aspects.
The Federal Reserve, The Fed, is a Federally chartered, created by statute corporation, that is controlled by statute, its officers are appointed and removed by the President, and in the event of dissolution, its assets would become the property of the US Government by way of the Treasury, so it is a creature of the Federal government despite whatever appearances to the contrary. It is controlled and regulated by the Congress and the Treasury, so it is hardly independent.
The Federal Reserve banks, are supposedly “owned” by their member banks, and yet the so called “stock” they own cannot be bartered, pledged, sold, or given away, and has no semblance or essence of ownership attached. Each member bank MUST own shares in their local branch, but they can own only so many, the shares must be surrendered if the bank goes out of business or is liquidated, and are basically nothing but membership certificates. That does not constitute ownership.
The Fed banks are subject to complete control by the Fed Board, and it is in turn subject to what the government ultimately determines, so by those facts, the Fed is not a private company. The Fed is a bank because it has to do banking functions and mesh with the rest of the banks in the country, but it does a lot of other functions that are not necessarily bank like.
The fact that you sincerely and wholeheartedly believe that the “Law of Gravity” is unconstitutional and a violation of your sovereign rights, does not absolve you of adherence to it.
Trying to confuse the TUCers with facts just won't do.
They'll try to perpetrate their delusional fraud until physically prevented by virtue of being incarcerated. Nothing like being a dumb-ass who takes action based on some other dumb-ass'es dumb-ass theory.
All the States incorporated daughter corporations for transaction of business in the 1960s or so. - Some voice in Van Pelt's head, circa 2006.
Judge Roy Bean, is Federal Reserve a private company?? yes or no.
Do you feel insulted b/c I am telling you the truth?? I don't see the reason why you should be angry.
"Troll, please apply any of that to something that has anything to do with anything in the real world."
Your real world will be extinguish, so whether you like it or not, Judge Roy Bean, you will have to live in my world. It would be a good thing for you to start getting used to the idea.
Can't wait. Wish the FRN issue was still going, though. I've gone through the archives a bit - tax protesters don't ask questions here nearly enough, and that's what I wanted to address. I should have left the political stuff alone until I had a few more posts under my belt. Well, live and learn.
